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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2011-08-12, 8:40am
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Brandywine Brandywine is offline
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Default Noticing lines in Simax

I am noticing lines in the Simax clear in my pieces after melting clear to clear (such as adding bulk to a marble to round it out).

The lines show up where I am adding clear to the exisiting clear on what I am working with. It does not matter how much I heat the join, and there is no air/bubbles in the join.

Did I end up with a bad set of rods ? (Or maybe a few rods in the Box ?)

I have been working this box of Simax rod for over a year and had no problems until now.

Anyone have the same trouble ?
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  #2  
Old 2011-08-12, 9:20am
deb tarry deb tarry is offline
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Both parts of the pieces that you are putting together have to be cookin hot. Also the surface of both pieces have to be clear of bubbles scum and dust. I skim the outside of all my clear rods just before I use them and as long as I heat where they are going to be joined super hot there is very little noticeable lines. In a large piece getting both hot enough is difficult so what I do is heat the join as I go along, focusing the flame on the seam. When I see that it is white hot i push a little then stop and heat some more repeat until its all together. (Just a note to I am working on a smaller torch and can't get the whole gather hot enough in one blast) Hope this makes sense and helps you out.
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  #3  
Old 2011-08-15, 3:46pm
Firebrand Beads Firebrand Beads is offline
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Boro boys always told me you couldn't add clear to boro like we do in 104 because you would always see a haze line where you added clear to clear. I'm interested to see if Bristlecone can replicate your results, Deb!
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  #4  
Old 2011-08-15, 4:08pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firebrand Beads View Post
Boro boys always told me you couldn't add clear to boro like we do in 104 because you would always see a haze line where you added clear to clear. I'm interested to see if Bristlecone can replicate your results, Deb!
I do it and see no lines. I lens some of my marbles without problems. As Deb has said, Both sides quite hot.
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  #5  
Old 2011-08-15, 5:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandywine View Post
I am noticing lines in the Simax clear in my pieces after melting clear to clear (such as adding bulk to a marble to round it out).?
The concept of 'adding bulk to a marble to round it out' is an idea that's been floating around my head since I've been making marbles. I could spend hours discussing this-but that will be for a different thread. However, ever since I took a class with Kobuki (09/2009) I haven't added any glass to up the bulk of any of the hundreds or so flower marbles that I've made. Tube marbles though, I've only made 5-6 so far - they get a top, a bottom or both, depending on how the disk looks.
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  #6  
Old 2011-08-15, 6:38pm
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If that were true, every joint on a tree sculpture would have a haze, but in most cases, unless you boil the glass, you can get it fairly consistent.

It's when you start getting spurious fume from silver colors or bits of dust from powders involved that you start getting issues. But, you also have to make sure both sides are soupy to get a good, clear, join.
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  #7  
Old 2011-08-15, 8:29pm
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmkcpa View Post
The concept of 'adding bulk to a marble to round it out' is an idea that's been floating around my head since I've been making marbles. I could spend hours discussing this-but that will be for a different thread. However, ever since I took a class with Kobuki (09/2009) I haven't added any glass to up the bulk of any of the hundreds or so flower marbles that I've made. Tube marbles though, I've only made 5-6 so far - they get a top, a bottom or both, depending on how the disk looks.
I always get almost all of the marble formed on the original rod and then punty and rip off the rod leaving some extra. I then heat the leftover rod end and remove 99% of it and then just heat it in and finish the front lens in the mold. Sometimes, though if I want to add a disk or some other embellishment in the marble I will create a back and lens and then join them. Did my first tube implosion tonight and I am excited to see how it looks
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  #8  
Old 2011-08-27, 9:02pm
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You can join clear without an overly obvious seam, but except in a narrow range of cases, you will not get optimal optical quality.
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  #9  
Old 2011-08-28, 10:44pm
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I Was talking to Kubuki yesterday and he was mentioning the lines in the Simax since they shut down the factory and reopened it, he says he has tried 3 different sizes and all the new stuff has lines.. He hopes they get the new factory equipment working better soon. Sounds like you got some of the newest stuff from the factory but yours is from an old box so it should be okay..
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Last edited by sunray; 2011-08-28 at 10:46pm.
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  #10  
Old 2011-08-29, 7:10am
deb tarry deb tarry is offline
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When I was working the back of a pendant the other day I notice the glass I was using was giving off a bit of fume to the surrounding clear. And I thought if I was trying to add a lens over this I would get lines.
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  #11  
Old 2011-08-29, 8:16am
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Brandywine Brandywine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray View Post
I Was talking to Kubuki yesterday and he was mentioning the lines in the Simax since they shut down the factory and reopened it, he says he has tried 3 different sizes and all the new stuff has lines.. He hopes they get the new factory equipment working better soon. Sounds like you got some of the newest stuff from the factory but yours is from an old box so it should be okay..
Thats the answer I had expected. It makes sense that the glass has changed. For a long time I have had no problems with adding clear to clear, but with this last batch of Simax 3mm and 12mm I bought, it will not blend with my 'older' 6mm without leaving noticable lines at the joint area.

If the factory changed supply materials or technique just a little it could make for these kinds of troubles. I need to try the new glass joined to the new glass to see if it make a clear join. Then the answer for me is to stop using the old and the new Simax together.

....Now who do I see, about all these wonderful flawed pieces I have made and the time and materials that we should be compensated for ???
I am going to guess that Schott/Simax will not be buying them from us, as a 'Sorry bout that guys' goodwill gesture, hmmm.

Thanks for the info, that helps me move on from this conundrum.
Chris
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Old 2011-08-29, 8:19am
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Remember, non-glassy people won't see the flaws in the same way & in fact in many cases they will value the piece all the more. I remember a vortex marble I made with a bad termination that the new owner loved more than any other marble I had because to them it looked like a dragon in the bottom of the marble. Someone will probably love your pieces. =)
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  #13  
Old 2011-08-29, 8:22am
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That's odd, I hear plenty of people talk about lines in rods, or tubes, as in small cords of glass that are stiffer, or air lines. I haven't heard a change in formulation that would cause clear to not match other clear referred to as lines in the tubing. Is that what you mean sunray?
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  #14  
Old 2011-08-29, 8:26am
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Brandywine Brandywine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmkcpa View Post
The concept of 'adding bulk to a marble to round it out' is an idea that's been floating around my head since I've been making marbles. I could spend hours discussing this-but that will be for a different thread. However, ever since I took a class with Kobuki (09/2009) I haven't added any glass to up the bulk of any of the hundreds or so flower marbles that I've made. Tube marbles though, I've only made 5-6 so far - they get a top, a bottom or both, depending on how the disk looks.
I agree that this is the best method as there are less elements to the process that could cause trouble. I am working on a lynx with a 10lpm concentrator at 9400' altitude (so maybe 70% efficiency) and getting a decent sized gather up to temp and keeping it there is not an easy (or quick) task.

There is another oxy con in my future, says the crystal ball....which seems to have some 'lines' inside it
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  #15  
Old 2011-08-29, 8:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Juln View Post
That's odd, I hear plenty of people talk about lines in rods, or tubes, as in small cords of glass that are stiffer, or air lines. I haven't heard a change in formulation that would cause clear to not match other clear referred to as lines in the tubing. Is that what you mean sunray?
He didn't mention a change in formula but just the fact he was having trouble with the new boxes of glass since the factory redid their plant this year so I am not sure if its the material or if its in the production lines.
He used to use 20mm but said he'd tried 18mm, 17mm etc and was getting the same problem. He hasn't figured it out yet as its a new problem that just started showing up in the last month or so. Simax 20mm was his favorite before.
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  #16  
Old 2011-08-29, 10:41am
LarryC LarryC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunray View Post
He didn't mention a change in formula but just the fact he was having trouble with the new boxes of glass since the factory redid their plant this year so I am not sure if its the material or if its in the production lines.
He used to use 20mm but said he'd tried 18mm, 17mm etc and was getting the same problem. He hasn't figured it out yet as its a new problem that just started showing up in the last month or so. Simax 20mm was his favorite before.
Wonder if there is some kind of contaminant on the surface of the rods that might cause this? I always clean mine in alcohol before working.
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  #17  
Old 2011-08-29, 7:53pm
oldschooltofu oldschooltofu is offline
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i have had major problems with the new simax. mostly from the boxes that were not labeled the same way they were in the past. they had just a plain white label. i think i had 6, 28, 26 be the worst.

the problem i was having was a wierd devit that i could not flame polish away where old simax touched new simax, when i encased it, it popped up next to the encasing. lost a bunch of items. glasscraft ended up taking back the problem glass and returning it to simax.
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