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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #121  
Old 2006-01-12, 12:56pm
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Thanks for the color suggestions. I just ordered ummm....a few more than 3 colors, onyx, white and clear. You guys are a bad influence.
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  #122  
Old 2006-01-12, 1:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Muses Glass
Thanks for the color suggestions. I just ordered ummm....a few more than 3 colors, onyx, white and clear. You guys are a bad influence.
Bad influence is right. I keep thinking of my clear rods that I got for putnies and my tubes (that don't heat well in my bobcat) and wondering what I can make with the clear and my puney couple inches of blue that I have.

Come to think of it, I know I own the Doug R video on beads, and a sample pack from one of the boro companies. It might have been a promo with the DVD. I'm ignoring the temptation because I know it will lead to more expendatures.
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  #123  
Old 2006-01-12, 2:08pm
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Take the plunge!!! You won't be sorry for long...
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  #124  
Old 2006-01-12, 2:37pm
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Brent,

I LOVE boro with my Bobcat and Airsep AS-12A generator! This little torch is hotter than my Mini CC because of the more focused flame I suppose. My Airsep is the high pressure one so I hope it can power up a Barracuda okay. That's my next move up, lol. Money is a factor, but I tell you what - when that's no longer a problem, I will have me a BIG glass allowance!

I've made a couple of good beads, but most of my colors were a little muddy and I can't get a decent purple from the amber purples. I just get amber. I have a little trouble understanding annealing schedules for boro colors, they vary so much! Someone told me I need to anneal at 1200 and then ramp down to lower temps for the colors, I'm sooo confused!

Actually, how long is borosilicate supposed to anneal for the sake of durability? I have Lori's book, so that's annealing for about 30 minutes after ramp up, and that's it? You can just start ramping down after that period?? I know that the rubies will turn too dark and brownish if annealed too long, but can that be less than desirable for the amber purples?

Here's the good ones: GA rust and one of the silver strikes, I think, and NS star white, bubble gum, and one of the rubies. The only ones I made that I actually like. These beads are big, 25mm and 30mm. And of course, the color is applied over a clear base, lol! I have the small NS sample pack and a few of the GA project kits.
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  #125  
Old 2006-01-12, 3:04pm
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Cool Lisa... you're well on your way. There is no simple boro annealing / striking schedule. Not one that works for everything or everybody any way. That's part of it... if you flame strike and just want to anneal, 30-45 minutes at 1050 will do the trick and then ramp down slowly to 950... hold a few and off for smaller work. The kiln striking just takes some time to get down. Great first beads. You should be proud!
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  #126  
Old 2006-01-12, 6:04pm
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Lisa, those are pretty!

OK, guys I have another question If I make a smallish sculpture, not thick, kind of open and airy with boro and I go to put it in the annealer...well, I'm trying to wrap my brain around heat evenivity, non-thermal shockiness and things like that...would the small sculpture go right in the hot kiln or should it/can it be cooled and put in a cold kiln and sort of batch annealed?

To be more specific, what I've got an idea to make is a stand for some vessels, a top ring that's solid and a scallop/drape pattern that's open down from the ring. The solid ring probably wouldn't be more than 1" around and the whole thing tall wouldn't be more than 2". Do I just pop that puppy in the kiln when I'm done? If yes, does it get flashed first? Does that make any sense? This going back and forth with soft and hard glass is.....
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  #127  
Old 2006-01-12, 7:16pm
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Boro is forgiving. I have taken many room temperature pieces and thrown them into a hot kiln with no problem.

Gently heat it from time to time while you're working on it so it doesn't shock, and you'll be fine when it's time to put it into the kiln.
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  #128  
Old 2006-01-12, 7:43pm
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It all depends on the piece... when you break enough of them, you'll learn what needs to go in the kiln right away and what can be set on the bench to cool.
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  #129  
Old 2006-01-13, 5:52am
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Thanks! I just love a good learning curve.
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  #130  
Old 2006-01-13, 6:10am
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Boro is a lot like soft glass. It has all the little quirks you had to get used to then... what seems easy to you now wasn't when you first started making beads. I'm really trying to prepare people for a little of this. If you don't expect it to be a magical glass that is so forgiving that it never cracks, you won't be dissapointed when it does. As people get better at working the glass and reading the heat base... and putting an even heat into a piece, they can leave it out of the kiln to cool. It's not annealed, but it will survive until it is batch annealed. Lori Robbins almost pisses me off with the stuff she just sits on her bench to cool. She can do like 6 boro beads on a mandrel and just let them cool without losing a single one. That just comes from making thousands and thousands of beads. I don't do that much mandrel work, so mine like to crack in half if I don't put them in the kiln. I can let pendants cool out of the kiln though. I still put them in the kiln as soon as they are done. Why risk a crack if you don't have to? Then, they are done at the end of the day and I get to list them. I use more electric, but the warm fuzzy feeling I get turning my kiln on before I work is worth it. There's something about that first hummmmm of electricity!
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  #131  
Old 2006-01-13, 6:21am
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I really like that it is so much less shocky. Some days I go to my torch to relax. If everything pops, it doesn't reset my internal balance as well. That and having different results is what makes me think about going that way.
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  #132  
Old 2006-01-13, 7:39am
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Default Boro this weekend?

Good thread!

Well, I have a bunch of boro clear, two of the tiny NS sample pacs, and a bunch of labled NS rods from Mr. Smiley. I also bought the GA sample pack from arrowsprings with the "self paced projects." The GTT Delta is finally set up and ready to go with tanked oxy. Looks like it is time to finally try out the boro this weekend! My daughter also wants to learn to work boro. Will she be able to do small boro things such as beads and pendants on my old GTT bobcat?

Are the directions for working GA boro different than those for working the NS boro? In other words do I need to stick with learning just GA or NS before trying the other?

Thanks!

Eric
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  #133  
Old 2006-01-13, 8:00am
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Brent labelled your rods?

Brent, remind me to kick you in the shins next time I see you!

GA and NS boro is basically the same thing, and can be worked the same way. In fact, a lot of their colors are very similar. Almost interchangable. NS Double Amber Purple and GA Triple Passion are the first that come to mind.

If you haven't done so yet, go to both www.glassalchemyarts.com and www.northstarglass.com and look at their suggestions for working their color.

You should have no problem working boro on a Bobcat. I have made several large beads on a Minor, and not long ago I made a 1" boro marble on a Minor running off a two concentrators.
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  #134  
Old 2006-01-13, 9:06am
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Hi Chad,

I think brent just put together a package of NS shorts that still had the labels on them so don't kick him too hard.

Thanks for the info about the boro color websites. I have literature from GA but none from NS so that will be really helpful.

Eric
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  #135  
Old 2006-01-13, 9:51am
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I think he got the bundle of rods that were labeled already. I didn't do squat. You can kick me when you see me, but don't count on my crappy memory to remind you.

Chad, give me a call. I have some info for you... might be helpful. 407-824-9108 or 407-383-4596
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  #136  
Old 2006-01-13, 11:31am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley
I think he got the bundle of rods that were labeled already. I didn't do squat. You can kick me when you see me, but don't count on my crappy memory to remind you.

Chad, give me a call. I have some info for you... might be helpful. 407-824-9108 or 407-383-4596
I appreciate the info. My bank account isn't as appreciative....
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  #137  
Old 2006-01-13, 12:10pm
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Brent,

Thanks so much, now I get it! So, the boro annealing temp is held at 1050, pretty much the same amount of time I'll hold for the soft glass at 968 after the last bead is in the kiln. The color flame striking and kiln temps are what's going to vary then! I do need to flame strike better than I do though. There has to be a way to get some purple out of the DAP, lol!

For some reason I see myself having much more patience with this glass than I did with soft glass. So if I get mud, I get mud. Sooner or later I'll get the color I want, and thanks to you and all the others who share your learning experiences.

Yeah, and I'm well aware that the stuff can crack, so I treat it nicely! I made a 4 inch long vessel that cracked right on the mandrel after heating one end too long.
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  #138  
Old 2006-01-13, 7:36pm
CarolinaDreamDesigns CarolinaDreamDesigns is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
I appreciate the info. My bank account isn't as appreciative....
NO FAIR!!!! Share the misery why don't ya? I get four crappy beads to one good one and that ONE good beady looking thing keeps me wandering back to boro when I should be using all the soft glass I have!

::grumble grumble::

SO what gives?

Martha
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  #139  
Old 2006-01-14, 12:04am
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I just hooked up my lynx and two concentrators the other day and djeez what a difference the heat makes! I said before that my minor could not make the beads clear ( not hot enough) but this little torch doesn't have a problem at all!!

I do have some questions, I hope someone can awnser them for me.

When I turn on my torch it takes about five to ten minutes to get the full propane flow going. I have to adjust the propane knob at least 15 times before I get a nice and steady flame. Is this normal for a lynx? I tested all the lines and there is no leak, it just looks like the flame get's smaller ( as if the bottle is almost empty, but its a new one and it's full so that is not the problem)

Also, I was wondering if I can batch anneal boro ( I just read mr smileys posting, so I assume I can) but I'd rather be safe then sorry.


Thanks all!
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  #140  
Old 2006-01-14, 7:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzanne
I just hooked up my lynx and two concentrators the other day and djeez what a difference the heat makes! I said before that my minor could not make the beads clear ( not hot enough) but this little torch doesn't have a problem at all!!

I do have some questions, I hope someone can awnser them for me.

When I turn on my torch it takes about five to ten minutes to get the full propane flow going. I have to adjust the propane knob at least 15 times before I get a nice and steady flame. Is this normal for a lynx? I tested all the lines and there is no leak, it just looks like the flame get's smaller ( as if the bottle is almost empty, but its a new one and it's full so that is not the problem)

Also, I was wondering if I can batch anneal boro ( I just read mr smileys posting, so I assume I can) but I'd rather be safe then sorry.


Thanks all!

I would check your propane regulator. It sounds like it's either not set right for that torch, or it's faulty.

You can batch anneal boro, but I don't recommend it. There isn't really a problem with them breaking, but it's hard to get the colors to develop correctly if you let them cool and them batch anneal them. However, if you use non-striking colors, you can probably batch anneal them with no problem.
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  #141  
Old 2006-01-14, 7:42am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarolinaDreamDesigns
NO FAIR!!!! Share the misery why don't ya? I get four crappy beads to one good one and that ONE good beady looking thing keeps me wandering back to boro when I should be using all the soft glass I have!

::grumble grumble::

SO what gives?

Martha
No, nothing like that. Brent is helping me set up and equip our studio, and one of the things we were looking for is getting ready to go up in price. Unfortunately, I'm sure the general public will find out soon enough. Now I have to scrounge up $5000....
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  #142  
Old 2006-01-14, 9:07am
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The regulator I use for my propane is almost new, I used it on my minor all the time and it worked fine, maybe I have the pressure set too low for the lynx, that could be the problem. Thanks for thinking with me.

suzanne
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  #143  
Old 2006-01-14, 9:43am
CarolinaDreamDesigns CarolinaDreamDesigns is offline
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EEWwwwwwwwww - you have my sympathy!!

I have enough heart spasms thinking about what I've spent on stuff I may never see a return on - I cannot imagine what it costs to setup a teaching studio!

Sorry

Martha

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmo
No, nothing like that. Brent is helping me set up and equip our studio, and one of the things we were looking for is getting ready to go up in price. Unfortunately, I'm sure the general public will find out soon enough. Now I have to scrounge up $5000....
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  #144  
Old 2006-01-14, 9:53am
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It's the o-rings in the valves. They are new and they do that for a while with GTTs. They expand just a tad after you open the valve. Stop adjusting your regulator and just turn the propane knob up a little on the torch. I'm 99.9% sure anyway.
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  #145  
Old 2006-01-14, 11:10am
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Thanks Mr Smiley!!

This is the reason I love this place so much, with all these experts I feel totaly safe torching, and if anything is off, there are always people willing to help and share!

Thanks again!
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  #146  
Old 2006-01-14, 11:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butterflykj
Just a side note: I ordered some clip ons, level 5, for my regular torching glasses. My eyes were bothering me.........so.......
I will be taking a break from the boro until they come in.
OMG I can't see w/ the level 5 Waaayy too dark Whine whine whine.
I'll have to trade them for a level 3.

I ordered a couple things from Generations Glass and am very happy w/ the service I rec'd from them! Thanks for the recommendation.

I am having a hard time w/ shaping as the glass stiffens up so much faster than the soft glass.

I'll try and add pictures later of what I've made so far.

Mr. Smiley: Any photo suggestions? or can you point me to a thread w/ easy to follow instructions.
Your hearts just seem to come alive in your photos
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  #147  
Old 2006-01-14, 12:26pm
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I use a Sony Cybershot 2.1 megapixel dinosaur digital camera, with a 100 watt Reveal light bulb shining from above. It's diffused through white material. That's it. I just got a photo cube thingy, so we'll see how it works compared to my home made light box.
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  #148  
Old 2006-01-14, 2:22pm
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I just dabble with boro, haven't shown anyone any yet. But I will say this. I did a ton of shows this past summer/fall and guess what sold first all the time out of all of my beautiful beads? My very few, plainer boro beads, that's what, people picked them right out even though they knew nothing of glass.......So that should kick start some of you into boro.

What clear do you all recommend? I think I got Simax or something like that when I got it 2 years ago, but I don't remember.
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  #149  
Old 2006-01-14, 3:31pm
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Simax, Kimble or Schott. It's all good. They yeild slightly different colors, but I can't keep track of it myself.
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  #150  
Old 2006-01-14, 7:17pm
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What's the best palce to get boro, at a GOOD, sale price? I missed all the sales during the holidays. I need a couple lbs to start out with.
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