Betta, Concentrators and Propane

tasminann · #1 2006-06-11, 7:03am

I got to try a Piranah yesterday and wow -- it's one hot torch! Naturally it is being discontinued.

I believe the Betta is the replacement, but I keep seeing that it was designed to run on low-pressure O2 and Natural gas.

So my question -- does anyone have a Betta that they are running on one or two concentrators and using propane? If so -- how do you like it? And how does it compare to other torches you may have had/used?

Right now I have a Bobcat. I like it, but the Piranah is definitely hotter and I am now working with boro (and can use all the heat I can get).

Thanks!

dogmaw · #2 2006-06-11, 10:09am

Gail, with 2 concentrators and propane you can do boro. With one concentrator and propane you can do soft glass. I love my betta!

tasminann · #3 2006-06-11, 11:24am

I have 3 concentrators and actually can do boro relatively ok on the Bobcat, but like I said...more heat is better!

I was very impressed at what the Piranah did on 1 concentrator. Melted 10mm boro rods pretty quick. Well, I'm sure it was slow compared to O2, but having spent all my torch time on concentrators...

(Didn't think the Barracuda would get me anything since I'd basically only be using the centerfire anyway.)

Thanks, Jo, for the feedback on your Betta!

kbinkster · #4 2006-06-12, 10:27pm

Gail,

It might be a good idea to check your screens. It sounds like you may not be getting enough flow. You should not have to be running three concentrators to run that Bobcat. Something's not right, possibly a blockage in the screen from what you are describing.

The screens are at the very end of the studs where your lines connect. You can pull your hoses off the barbed fittings and check for any obstructions in the screens.

Wally ran some tests on a Bobcat and a Piranha using an M10 concentrator (a 5 LPM machine with 10 psi output). He cut a 3/4" borosilicate rod with both torches at the same settings. The Bobcat cut it in 58 seconds. The Piranha cut it in 75 seconds.

A drop test was done using tanked oxygen. It took the Bobcat 44 seconds and the Piranha 57 seconds.

A drop test was done using the M10. It took the Bobcat 65 seconds and the Piranha 85 seconds.

The drop test is where he took a 3/4" rod, measured a spot a certain length from the end of the rod, held it a certain distance from the face of the torch, and applied heat until the rod bent straight down under its own weight.

So, test results like those are why I suspect that there is a problem if you are seeing a Pirana running significantly hotter than your Bobcat.

Mr. Smiley · #5 2006-06-13, 3:29am

... That's all I have to say about that.

pam · #6 2006-06-13, 3:51am

Not to hijack this thread, but if Willie is doing testing of different torches, that is fantastic. We, as beadmakers, really need all the data we can get, with all the new torches coming out. I hope at some point he or someone will publish the data in some way.

Mr. Smiley · #7 2006-06-13, 5:28am

I agree Pam... we need all the technical information we can get... I just don't think a manufacturer should do the testing for all brands. It just wreaks of problems, disagreements and skewed results. I don't want the

on the forums again. Especially this one. Once again, somebody said the Piranha was hotter for them than the Bobcat and here comes the test results to disprove it. Maybe the Bobcat is hotter with Willie behind it, but I've never heard any end user mention that the Bobcat is hotter. I wonder why that is... I've heard several people say the Piranha is hotter hands down. That's been my experience with the two torches.

Anyway, back on track... start another thread if you want to discuss the Bobcat versus the Piranha... the main question was for Betta users.

"So my question -- does anyone have a Betta that they are running on one or two concentrators and using propane? If so -- how do you like it? And how does it compare to other torches you may have had/used?"

Like I said, lets keep this on track. Start another thread to debate the fine points. Lets let this member get her answer. A side statement from her about her experience shouldn't get her an earful about a side track.

If you have a Betta and are running it under the scenario she asked about, I'd really like to hear the answers as well. I'm seriously considering getting one of these myself. I did some testing on this torch, but how does it do in the long haul?

yeepers · #8 2006-06-13, 5:48am

I'm currently on a Minor and it's been great so far but as I find myself making larger and larger beads it's taking longer and I'm seriously considering upgrading to a Betta.

So, Brent, this puppy can run on household NG pressure? I believe I'm running at 1/4 lb and one concentrator. Will I see a significant heat difference?

-Yee

Mr. Smiley · #9 2006-06-13, 7:37am

Yee, I beleive you will. I've never seen a torch that is this hot on such low pressures. When we tested it, I was skeptical about the low pressure thing. Then when we bumped the regulator down to just about zero and the torch was still singing away, my jaw dropped. We did the same thing with Jo's new Betta in NC, when I delivered it. It really is a fantastic torch for low pressures and even regular pressures. Maybe somebody that has run one in their studio for a while on household NG pressures will chime in.

kbinkster · #10 2006-06-13, 9:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

I agree Pam... we need all the technical information we can get... I just don't think a manufacturer should do the testing for all brands. It just wreaks of problems, disagreements and skewed results. I don't want the

on the forums again. Especially this one. Once again, somebody said the Piranha was hotter for them than the Bobcat and here comes the test results to disprove it. Maybe the Bobcat is hotter with Willie behind it, but I've never heard any end user mention that the Bobcat is hotter. I wonder why that is... I've heard several people say the Piranha is hotter hands down. That's been my experience with the two torches.

Anyway, back on track... start another thread if you want to discuss the Bobcat versus the Piranha... the main question was for Betta users.

"So my question -- does anyone have a Betta that they are running on one or two concentrators and using propane? If so -- how do you like it? And how does it compare to other torches you may have had/used?"

Like I said, lets keep this on track. Start another thread to debate the fine points. Lets let this member get her answer. A side statement from her about her experience shouldn't get her an earful about a side track.

If you have a Betta and are running it under the scenario she asked about, I'd really like to hear the answers as well. I'm seriously considering getting one of these myself. I did some testing on this torch, but how does it do in the long haul?

Of course Gail is entitled to some answers. I just made an observation given the information that she posted. No need to start another thread just yet.

As for testing torches, the tests that Wally ran can be run by anyone with a stopwatch on any torch. For an even better picture of what's going on, get a flow meter.

I think that it would be great if someone tested the Betta the same way that the Bobcat and Piranha were tested. I think a timed cut test and drop test would provide a really good picture of what this torch can do.

Regardless of the torch, saying that a flame can cut through an "x" inch rod in "y" seconds is more descriptive (and objective) than saying "I am so friggin' amazed by this torch! It totally rocks!"

I hope that someone running a Betta will do some testing and post the results. It would benefit anyone looking into buying one.

Mr. Smiley · #11 2006-06-13, 9:34am

I'll see if Lori Robbins can also do a retest on the Piranha... she's a master at getting a lot of heat out of Beths...

I'll do a time test on the Betta if I get one for my personal use...

pam · #12 2006-06-13, 11:05am

I personally would trust Willie to perform tests and publish the correct results. I find that both Willie and Wally have been totally honest in all my dealings with them over the years. I believe they have both the knowledge and expertise to perform the tests in such a way that they would be uniform thoughout. I feel bad that Brent has intimated that they would skew the results because of their interests in GTT. I do agree that it would be better to have a knowledgeable person with no demonstrable prejudice toward any product perform the tests so as to give clear and concise information that no one could dispute.

The fact is that we need this information and I would not object to the Willie/Wally data if that is what we can get and they are running the tests on multiple torches with multiple sources of oxygen. I think having the tests run by various people with different experience levels, with different agendas and different equipment would give us data that could not be relied upon to be accurate.

Mr. Smiley · #13 2006-06-13, 11:26am

I said it could be argued... nothing more.

tasminann · #14 2006-06-15, 5:46am

Oh, I should have said -- I work on 3 concentrators just because that's what I have! I had 2 to run my Bobcat, then was given a 3rd (hey, won't turn down a freebie). May as well run 3 if I have them!

I originally got 2 because I had a problem with my initial concentrator and was out of commission for about 10 days. So while my original was being fixed, I got a second on ebay so that would never happen again (no concentrator to work with). I had 2, so I connected them together. And like I said, I was gifted with the 3rd.

Not that I don't have any heat, but only that I would like more if I can get it with a different torch! (The mantra of lampworkers - more heat!)