flame annealing

[ginkgoglass]

Tell me about flame annealing. I've been reading about it in contemporary flameworking and I usually do it will my vases, vessels and ornaments. From what I understand, it doesn't really anneal it justs brings everything to a nice and even temp before it goes in the kiln and reduces stress in the glass.
I've seen Roger Parramore, Steve Sizelove, Shane Fero and others do it in goblet and hollow demos where they turn up the propane and bathe the piece in the tip of the flame till it's all black and sooty. Then it goes in the kiln.

Does anyone do this? Does it affect your color? What pieces should be flame annealled like this -- just hollow work?

[LarryC]

Bringing a piece to a nice even temperature overall before boxing is good practice but is not annealing and should not be substituted for it.

[Juln]

It's definitely possible to flame anneal items, reducing stress in the same way as soaking in an oven. However, it takes a lot of skill and practice and should be left to the scientific workers and masters.

As you note, though it can help to move the annealing process along before placing items into a kiln to finish it. The way you work can reduce or increase stress in the piece, and of course it's always good to minimize stress by working swiftly, minimizing reheats, and reheating gently. The less stress in a piece when you put it in the annealer, the less stress will remain when it comes out.

[loco]

If I'm working on a piece and don't want to stop and garage it so I can move to a different area I'll "dragon breath" it. I do this regularly while working on the piece. Mostly when I'm real busy with orders, hyped up on Red Bull, the kiln is nearly full, or I'm at a flame off.

I don't refer to it as flame annealing, because IMNSHO there is no such thing as flame annealing...

As far as affecting colors, not that I've seen...

[Juln]

Annealing refers to the process of cooling the glass down to remove stress only. Soaking at 1150 for striking, or flame striking, would not be called annealing... it would just be soaking at a high temp, or flame striking.

[mightymike]

Thanks
I know on some video I saw they called it flame annealing so thats what confused me but calling it flame striking makes a lot more sence.

[loco]

Mike, When you got the color out of Mai Tai were you using a Propane only flame? Was there soot collecting on the glass?

"I know on some video I saw they called it flame annealing so thats what confused me but calling it flame striking makes a lot more sence."

^ This is what I was heading to... A full on propane flame or "Dragons Breath" should not affect the color of the glass.

Originally Posted by Juln

It's definitely possible to flame anneal items, reducing stress in the same way as soaking in an oven. However, it takes a lot of skill and practice and should be left to the scientific workers and masters.

^ THIS

[ginkgoglass]

This is different than flame striking, and not annealing, but is known as "flame annealing."
I am not saying it replaces kiln annealing but is used by many well known people before kiln annealing in order to get the piece to an even temperature.

[patienthand]

I have done this for YEARS...

a good tip for the boro workers is.. soot the glass up evenly in the flame you described above, then slowly burn off that soot, it takes you to roughly the annealing temp of boro to burn off the soot, and you can visually see whats hot and whats not by where the soot is burning away, then you can garage it, or if its not too thick you can let it cool in a rack, with no draft and touching nothing and kiln anneal later.

what truly sets you up for cracking is thick and thin glass, and uneven cooling rates... so if you bring it all to a uniform temp and let is cool evenly, assuming its thinner blown work, you are golden till you anneal,, not so much for thick work.

[Shar Ehrhardt]

I have some thin and some thicker balls I blew. At the time I did not have a kiln. I do now (ChiliPepper). Should I put them in a cold kiln and bring it up to the 1050 deg? How long should I hold it at 1050? Then do I let it cool completely before taking them out? Everytime in the past if I blow a ball and then reheat it, the ball goes flat. Why?
I started a new thread-my husband said I should not of posted this here. Sorry, new to this line of communication.

[patienthand]

shar, yes you can put them in a cold kiln and bring them slowly up to annealing temp and anneal them. Just a note, if you have thin work you can actually anneal at about 1025 just hold it for a longer period. I learned this from Shane fero. Like me he does a lot fo thin blown work and they can sag at the 1050 mark. this id also what Emelio Santini does

[steak351]

i work scientific, this flame annealing is when you dont have a kiln, we build everything and bench cool it then put it in the kiln at the end of the day wich is heating up and batch annealing the apartusses overnight

we dont use a kiln wich is on garagetemp in our workshop

for example i make a coil,
bench cool it
i get the tube ready
put the coil into the tube
the i use this flame annealing to bring the glass up to a temperature where it wont crack when i really rage it
then i seal the coil to the outer tube#open a hole at the end
put a ground joint on
then flame anneal again that the seal doesnt crack
then i make 2 holes for the coling liquid on the sides and put olives for hoses on there
then flame anneal again to hold the working temerature and prevent the glass from cooling completely and change the sides
then i seal the other side of the outer tube to the other side of the coil inside
open the hole again and put anoter ground joint on top/end
the i use the flame annealing to hreat up the hole apatus for several minutes(i dont want carbon on it then the heat is a little to low)
then i let the apartus bench cool
and it goes in the kiln at the end of the day
the i make the next coil condenser

i hate this flame annealing and i love my kiln on garage temp at home;D