Glass Alchemy boro question.

[e. mort]

Hi,

I just started playing with my GA boro sample set today. I am using the lynx center fire of a GTT Delta Elite with propane and tanked oxygen. I followed the instruction in the "Setting a neutral flame Card" that was included with the set. I then tested it with the sample of GA987 "Amazon Night." As you can see from the attached pictures the Amazon Night rod (rod on the far left) remained unchanged which means that I have a neutral flame. I then put the sample of GA786 "Triple Passion" in the same spot in the flame where I tested the "Amazon night." As you can see from the attached pictures, the "Triple Passion" (rod in the middle) has a shiny metallic surface, but is purple inside which is the color it is supposed to be. Where did the shiny metallic surface come from? The same thing is happening with GA383 "Silver Strike 3" which is the rod on the far right in the attached pictures. It was supposed to turn a brownish color and it did, but there is a shiny metallic surface on the top as well.

So, can somebody please tell me what the heck I am doing wrong here?

Thanks for any and all assistance.

Eric

[Mr. Smiley]

I think you need a little more oxy or leave it in long enough to melt the glass and see if the haze burns off. i haven't done the project kit yet, so I really shouldn't be speaking up. The metalic sheen is silver... It's not oxydized enough to burn it off. Did it tell you to actually melt the glass? Cause the rods look barely flame polished. I should find the kit and read it huh? Maybe somebody with kit experience will chime in... but my advise is to crank the oxy up a little.

[e. mort]

Hey Brent,

It said to bring the rods to a warm orange glow. I did that, but maybe I didn't heat the rod deep enough? I will try pumping up the oxy a bit more as well. Should I cut the rod to see if the color went all the way through?

Thanks,

Eric

Hey, the pendant went out of my range. Good deal for you though.

[Mr. Smiley]

Hey Eric... The rod is probably colored all the way through. It won't really matter though, work on getting the haze under control. I was too busy today to find my project kit. I sure as heck wish I had done it now, so I could answer your questions. I am thinking they want you to work the glass though. For me, Triple Passion is best worked hot. The haze will burn off, the glass will go really transparent. At that point, you can let it cool below glow... count to 25 or something when you take it out of the flame. Then reheat it and watch it strike. It happens really fast if it's set up right and unencased. I have never really been good at following a structured set of instructions... I just play. I'll try to find time to get this project kit out and at least read it. I can tell you how I work these colors, but I don't want to mess up what ever lesson they have in mind.

[Dwaine Scum]

It looks like the silver in the triple passion is striking, hence the metalic coating, I'd try to make something out of the colors, as you work it and melt it in an higher oxy flame, you can see the transition of colors.. Also to make a cool nature type cane, hold a 8 MM clear rod beside the amazon night, then punty to the end, heat and twist... it will give you nice earth tones

[e. mort]

Thanks for the tips!

[R4GlassStudio]

Mr. Smiley got it right. The temp never made it up high enough to burn the haze off. When you work these colors they will look opaque in the flame. When the start looking transparent, the haze is burning off. This is when you'll get all the cool effects.
Have fun.
Smiley, see you tomarrow!!!
Ron Jr.

[Cosmo]

The first time you start working it and the haze starts burning off, you'll know it. I thought I was doing something wrong at first. But, keep it in the flame, and sure enough the haze will disappear.

If you aren't used to boro, it will take more heat than you normally use with soft glass.

[e. mort]

I tried your advice last night on the Silver Strike 3, and the metallic haze totally went away. I did notice that the brown color was lighter on the end afterwards so I am wondering if I either (a) got it too hot and burned out some of the color, or (b) need to take it hotter to bring back the color. Is silver strike 3 one of those colors that doesn't like to be re-heated?

Another question: what type of mandrells do you boro folks recommend? I have been using the basic stainless steel welding rods for my soft glass, but heard that I may melt right through them when doing boro.

Thanks again,

Eric

[e. mort]

I am assuming that it is ok to post Henry's response to the original question, so here it is.

Eric

*********************

The metals come to the surface at about 1200 - 1300 F. In a reducing flame you get an oil slick effect. In an oxidizing flame you get a clean, pure metallic effect. From your photo it appears that your flame may be slightly oxidizing, not reducing. I have only seen this in the studio 1 other time. My guess is you held the last two pieces about a ½ to 1 inch further out from the torch head than the 987. Your “neutral zone” may be very narrow, especially on a GTT which tends to burn the propane very well and generally doesn’t have a problem of over reduction like some other torch designs. If your O2 regulator is in the 35-45 psi range I would close down the center knobs about 1/16 to 1/8 turn to increase the working zone. I think this should keep the glass from going metallic on you.

[e. mort]

I haven't tried out Henry from GA's tips above yet, but I will today and let you know that happens.

Also, do you boro folks have a favorite mandrell type and bead release for use with boro. Currently I am using the regular stainless steel mandrells from arrowsprings, as well as the sludge plus bead release for my softglass stuff, and I was planning to use it for boro as well. Any input?

Eric

[Cosmo]

Sludge Plus works fine for boro. I use Foster Fire because the place I buy from carries it. It works fine too.

[suzanne]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

Hey Eric... The rod is probably colored all the way through. It won't really matter though, work on getting the haze under control. I was too busy today to find my project kit. I sure as heck wish I had done it now, so I could answer your questions. I am thinking they want you to work the glass though. For me, Triple Passion is best worked hot. The haze will burn off, the glass will go really transparent. At that point, you can let it cool below glow... count to 25 or something when you take it out of the flame. Then reheat it and watch it strike. It happens really fast if it's set up right and unencased. I have never really been good at following a structured set of instructions... I just play. I'll try to find time to get this project kit out and at least read it. I can tell you how I work these colors, but I don't want to mess up what ever lesson they have in mind.

Brent the project kit is purely based on what colors do in different types of flames , an oxydizing flame, neutral flame, reducing flame, and all sorts of combo's. It's definetly worth doing for a beginner since you actually get to see instantly what you are doing ( and the little leaflet tells you what you should be seeing). I liked it a lot, but I have used up all the glass by now

For mandrels I would recommand the 3 mm ( what is that, 2/32??), anyway the thick ones. I burned right through the 1.6 mm, the 2 mm did not last long either, and you do not want to have a hot bead dropped in your lap

[e. mort]

Thanks everyone for all of the input.

I am still getting the haze on the Triple Passion and Silver Strike 3 after following Henry's advice to adjust the GTT torch to back off on the center oxy knob, BUT it is not nearly as heavy as it was. So, I think I think I just need to keep playing with the oxy levels until I get it right. It does also help to heat the glass up until it is clear, but that seems to change the colors more. Oh well, practice, practice, practice make perfect, perfect, perfect...right?

Eric

[e. mort]

Here are some more pics of what the samples look like now. Maybe I should back off the oxy even more? Should I take a picture of the flame I am using or could one of you post a picture of a GTT Lynx flame that you use to work this stuff?

Thanks,

Eric

[Juln]

Whats the problem again? Is there a problem?
Thats just what triple passion and silver strike do. If you want it to be less metallic, heat it more thoroughly or use more oxygen. The color changes back and forth, it will strike, then unstrike over 1500, then strike again when it cools down and is reheated, etc.
I would just go a head and try making some stuff and see what questions crop up there.
I've never melted a mandrel, but I use the large ones... um, 1/8 of an inch or something.
I prefer the Foster Fire "heavy Duty' Boro formula. It works quite well as far as beads never sticking to the mandrel.

[Cosmo]

Originally Posted by e. mort

Here are some more pics of what the samples look like now. Maybe I should back off the oxy even more? Should I take a picture of the flame I am using or could one of you post a picture of a GTT Lynx flame that you use to work this stuff?

Thanks,

Eric

You just aren't getting it hot enough. Don't be afraid of it. Get it HOT. See how the ends are still pretty much squared off? That's not enough heat. Try making something out of it, like a bead or something. You'll get the feel of how much heat you need.

[Juliac]

Just styarting my Boro adventure, so these are great tips. I'll retry my kit tomorrow and see what else. The colors are amazing and so different. Any tips on encasing with boro. I got a lot of bubbles and i don't know why. Wound it like I do with soft and I was surprised at the bubbles as they appeared.

[Cosmo]

Make sure your glass is clean. Otherwise I never get any bubbles when I'm encasing.

[Juliac]

Thanks Chad. The bubbles were long streaks like when you don't lay them over enough so there is a gap in between. Maybe I wasn't hot enough!

[Cosmo]

Yeah. Try getting the clear hotter, and push down on it a little harder when you are applying it. That will force the air out.

[baylie]

Burning the haze off is crucial, if you take a cold pint glass out of the freezer it will have frost on it....burning off the haze looks like the frost melting. Hope that helps.

[dharrison1]

Kit, what kit?

[Juln]

Yeah, if you are getting lines that when encasing, do as Chad says and get the glass hotter. You have to really focus the heat on the juncture of the two to liquify the clear and squerge it into the crease; using more heat can melt the line you are overlapping a bit also and that will prevent air from being trapped at the same time.
Thats the whole issuie on this thread! Turn up those torches!

[Mr. Smiley]

I also leave trapped air an escape route... then just chase it out as I melt in the clear. It can be better for some applications than "squerging" it. <------ love the word squerge now. I'm going to use it often.

[HardwoodTrailGlass]

Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley

I also leave trapped air an escape route... then just chase it out as I melt in the clear. It can be better for some applications than "squerging" it. <------ love the word squerge now. I'm going to use it often.

What is squerging? I can barely spell it

[Juln]

A squerge is a slightly more forceful squooge.
It's all in the wrist.

[KristyN]

In response to : dharrison1 "Kit, what kit?

--Glass Alchemy has a starter boro kit with labeled short rods (I think around 14-16 rods) and an instruction manual of their glasses. They familiarize you with how/why they number their glass and a sheet walks you through various projects like how to set a neutral flame using Amazon Night.

I got mine at an ISGB gathering awhile back, so newer kits might include other items.
- Kristy

[HardwoodTrailGlass]

Originally Posted by Juln

A squerge is a slightly more forceful squooge.
It's all in the wrist.

OMG I am sooo totally lost!

[Juln]

Yeah, it's that technical glass vocabulary that distinguishes the pros...
It takes years to come up to speed with all these terms, like the subtle differences between 'wonky' pieces, 'woobly' ones and those that are 'glorky'.