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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2008-11-03, 7:57am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 24, 2008
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What should I look for in a Kiln?
I have been making beads since July and I am looking to buy a kiln now that I am making some beads I like. I want to be able to anneal my beads and fuse glass. I also want to be able to fire pmc. What should I be looking for in kiln specifications. I don't know what temps the kiln needs to be able to go up to for fusing and annealing.
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2008-11-03, 9:16am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
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I think most of the fire-brick kilns would work fine for you. Be sure that it has a controller that allows you to cool the kiln at a specific rate for your bead annealing. Most fire-brick kilns that I know of do go up to the temps needed for both fusing and PMC. When you are looking, a good thing to look for is heating coils that are inside quartz tubing so that you don't inadvertantly touch one with your mandrel as you are placing beads inside. Also, if you are looking for a programmable controller, be sure that it has the ability to accept many different programs for the different things you will be doing so you don't have to reprogram constantly.
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Pam
"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
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2008-11-03, 12:43pm
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Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Apr 12, 2006
Location: Victoria BC Canada
Posts: 5,810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgiovacchini
I have been making beads since July and I am looking to buy a kiln now that I am making some beads I like. I want to be able to anneal my beads and fuse glass. I also want to be able to fire pmc. What should I be looking for in kiln specifications. I don't know what temps the kiln needs to be able to go up to for fusing and annealing.
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A kiln is a kiln is a kiln. They are all basically a toaster on steroids. Electric elements apply heat and soft porous bricks hold the heat. They may have more or less extra features, but they are all essentially the same. Shop around for the best deal you can find. You'll hear many people tell you, "My Zippydoodad Fusemaster is the best" but you're just hearing personal brand preference. There's no important difference between Ford and Chev and there's no important difference between makes of kilns. It isn't the make of kiln that makes any difference - it's the features in the kiln. Here's some things to look for
SIZE
Do you want to stay with a 120 volt plug or can you provide a 240 volt?
What is the largest size project you expect to make?
Do you want too allow for future growth?
How deep a kiln do you need? A 6 deep is enough for fusing but not for deep slumps or drops.
VERSATILITY
A kiln with top elements is better then one with side elements.
A kiln with both top and side elements is best of all.
CONVENIENCE
Are you willing to babysit the kiln during firing or do you want a digital controller that you can program to operate the firing while you're away?
A round kiln costs less to build but a square kiln has more space.
A top-loading kiln costs less then a front-loading but front-loading is easier to use.
Its a good idea to take some time to carefully consider what you want now and allow for what you might want in the future - then shop around for the best deal you can get for the kiln that best satisfies your wants.
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Dennis Brady
DeBrady Glassworks To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - - Glass Campus To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Victorian Art Glass To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. - Master Artisan
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2008-11-03, 2:58pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 24, 2008
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Thank you for your reply. It was very helpful.
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2008-11-03, 3:03pm
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PyronamixK
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
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Another very important thing to consider when ordering a kiln from someone is that they actually have the kiln to sell to you or can get the one you want in a reasonable amount of time.
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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2008-11-03, 3:37pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 20, 2007
Location: buenos aires.
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I had the same considerations as you when I started looking for a kiln. I wanted to be able to maybe do more than just beads (fusing & maybe PMC, like you). I don't work on large pieces so I could get a small kiln & be happy with it for a long time. That is something to really consider.
After going round & round looking at all the kilns out there, I bought a Paragon SC2 with bead door (There is one with a window too but apparently with the window you can't fire it to the highest temperature). You can use it for what you are interested in. The only thing I was told to get a second shelf for use with silver clay, which I did. It has a controller so I don't have to baby sit it.
In the end I also choose it because it is the one I was using at the studio were I was renting hourly space. It worked great there so if I was happy with it there, I'd be happy with it in my own studio, right? Why reinvent the wheel?
Timing for me was also a big issue as I bought it just before we moved. I ordered directly from Paragon took 2 weeks & shipped overseas in only three days. They were really lovely. They held my hand while I asked question after question, messed up the online form, etc. etc. They were really lovely.
But finally, I also got it because it's super cute, I could hug it!!
http://www.paragonweb.com/SC2-BD.cfm
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2008-11-03, 4:30pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jan 23, 2006
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I ended up spending about 1000 for my arrow springs fuse/annealing kiln w/controller.. I love it. One selling feature for me was , it can be taken apart and move with relative ease by me. You will want to get a digital controller because one melt down and it has basically paid for its self. What ever you choose no kiln does it all imo. so get one for what you will be doing most . remembering that if you buy a big one to fuse and only do that a few times a year ... every time you make beads you have to heat that empty space that's not very cost effective. That is one complaint I've heard from people after the fact..
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2008-11-03, 4:39pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 26, 2007
Posts: 220
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I bought a Jen Ken kiln with a bead door. I anneal beads and fuse glass in it and I love it. I bought it from two lasses glass, they shipped it to me fast and cheap ( and I am all the way up in the great white north!)
Jessica
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2008-11-03, 4:54pm
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I'm a lilac!
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Join Date: Jun 09, 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
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If you are going to be doing LONG torching sessions and making lots of beads, especially if you use frits, enamels, or silver, you'll probably want to look for a kiln with a wide opening or even two doors, so you can get a lot of mandrels in side-by-side without the beads touching. I definitely second the recommendation for a digital controller! IMO that's a must for annealing beads, especially if you use any of the silver glasses which are so persnickety about annealing temperature.
I would definitely recommend either looking for a place that will have your kiln in stock so you won't have a two-month wait, OR buy it direct from the manufacturer, like Arrow Springs or Mike at Glass Hive who builds it to order for you, so that you're buying it from the same people who will help you troubleshoot it or find parts and service it later if you ever need it.
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-Kalera
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2008-11-03, 4:55pm
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moth to the flame
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Join Date: Oct 30, 2005
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Also be sure you are dealing with a reputable dealer, if you aren't sure about one then ask here. You will get all kinds of recommendations on great kiln sellers.
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2008-11-04, 6:13am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 20, 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yellowbird
I ended up spending about 1000 for my arrow springs fuse/annealing kiln w/controller.. I love it. One selling feature for me was , it can be taken apart and move with relative ease by me. You will want to get a digital controller because one melt down and it has basically paid for its self. What ever you choose no kiln does it all imo. so get one for what you will be doing most . remembering that if you buy a big one to fuse and only do that a few times a year ... every time you make beads you have to heat that empty space that's not very cost effective. That is one complaint I've heard from people after the fact..
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Yes, the cost of firing it up 1/2 empty was also a consideration for me. I know I work small, so a bigger kiln would have been a complete waste of energy to heat it up all the time.
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2008-11-04, 7:39am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
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When I ordered my first kiln I thought I would be doing lots of fusing and some beadmaking. Instead of buying a larger kiln, I had AS make an extra ring that I could put in for more depth. I hate to admit it, but that was the worst money I have ever spent - never even used the extra ring once in the last 15 years! I agree, don't get a kiln larger than you can use thinking you are going to do large pieces. My best recommendation is to buy a smaller kiln and an external controller that can be used on other kilns. That way if you find eventually that you do want to do larger pieces you only have to buy another kiln, not another controller also.
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Pam
"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth
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2008-11-04, 9:31am
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Thank you. I had never considered the amount of energy the kiln would use if I wasn't making a larger project. Although I am interested in making some larger projects they are not my main focus mostly lampwork beads and small fused projects. Since I only get to make a few beads in an evening I plan to batch anneal the beads.
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2008-11-04, 11:19am
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Surrounded by Trouble
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 14,165
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I waited way too long to buy my glasshive kiln. I had a AIM kiln without a digital controller which I babysat, manually turning it down to ensure my beads where properly annealed. I am a nighttime bead maker so I set an alarm to get up in the middle of the night to ramp my kiln down all night long. If I had to do it all over again I would just go ahead and buy a glasshive kiln, as there wasn't much difference in the price if I had purcahsed the smaller one from Mike at the time I bought my AIM.
I have the big wide guy now and I love it, It is the best investment I have ever made.
I never did batch anneal my beads, but Mike will set your programs for bath annealing, if you wish.
I love the fact that I can call Mike with any questions that might arise. Recently my kiln was making a noise, I called Mike, he was sure he knew what the problem was, and it would fix itself (it did) but just encase he sent me an extra relay cause he didn't want me to be without my kiln. No charge, not even did I pay for shipping. Now that is the best customer service I have ever seen.
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2008-11-04, 7:52pm
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I'm a lilac!
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Join Date: Jun 09, 2005
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 8,793
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I second the good words about Mike. I love my kiln, but the company that made it is no longer around and I have no one to turn to for service. I called Mike at Glasshive today (I've been to Glass Stock, I knew how helpful he is!) and asked if he might have any tips on who I can go to to find replacement elements. He was absolutely awesomely helpful, as well as having a really warm, welcoming personality and being easy to explain things to. Great guy all-around, and I have heard good things from everyone who's bought a Glass Hive kiln, especially when the time comes for repairs... he is right there for his customers, and even, apparently, his non-customers! And his kiln prices are excellent.
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-Kalera
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2008-11-04, 8:00pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 30, 2005
Location: Warrenville Il. and Jupiter Fl.
Posts: 246
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Just ordered my new Glasshive kiln and can't wait to get it! Mike and Deb are awesome people.
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2008-11-05, 6:44pm
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Patti
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2007
Location: Lynnville, Indiana
Posts: 54
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I second the praise for Mike's Glasshive kiln. It's wonderful, built in the US by him and he has awesome support.
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2008-11-05, 7:50pm
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PyronamixK
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Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
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I have a JenKen kiln with a bead door. I have used it for annealing as well as for slumping and fusing. It has a digital controller that is easy to program. I really like it a lot and would recommend it to anyone wanting to do what I have done with it. I have not yet done any PMC in this kiln. I'm thinking that I might want to get a small one dedicated to PMC projects. I have heard that the silver can deposit on the elements and redeposit on glass later. I don't know if that is true or not, but, I still want a little kiln just for PMC projects.
I started with a kiln made by Sundance from AIM components. It was modular and the bead door was a flap of fiber cloth. It came with a brick so that I could close the bead opening when fusing. I used an infinite controller and an analogue pyrometer with it until Mark Wilson built me a digital controller for it. It was a simple kiln, but it served me well when I started out. I would have kept it, but my bead buddy needed a kiln and I sold it to her. BTW, it took a very long time to get that kiln. The people at Sundance were upfront about it, though.
Someday, I would like to get a taller kiln to slump small vases and anneal taller sculptures. I would like one with a guillotine door. It would even make puntying up to Schott pucks a lot easier, too. So, that is on my wish list. If Mike makes that kind, I will definitely check him out when I'm ready, because over the last several years I have heard nothing but good things about him and his kilns.
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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