Question about Propane

[Cathy at the Beach]

I recently changed from a hot head with 1 lb cannisters to a minor with a bbq sized propane tank.

I currently have it in my studio but am concerned about the safety of having it inside. I am thinking of buying a longer hose and running the hose out through the wall- but- how do those regulators hold up in winter. I live in Manitoba where winter is really winter and not uncommon for - 30C (which is almost the same in F) weather. Do those regulators and tanks withstand that kind of cold outside? I know we bbq in the winter but we don't have regulators on our bbq.

thanks

[Dale M.]

Running a hose through wall is not the way to go... Any wall penetration for propane needs to be in metal piping and have gas shutoff valves on inside where you can access it without having to go outside,,,......

Regulators don't seem to have any problems with the cold... When you think about it ,there are thousands of regulators out there used for home heating and cooking during the deepest coldest winters....

How ever at some point (something like -40° f.) propane stops boiling off as a gas and pressure drops inside tank to very lintel to nothing....

Simply placing something as simple as a bucket inverted over regulator provides protection from snow and moisture in winter ....

Dale

[metalbone]

Dale, would it be OK to run a metal pipe insert (burrs removed of course) through the wall, then run the propane hose though the metal pipe? This would prevent gas from leaking into the wall space is there were a leak.

[kbinkster]

You're not supposed to do that as a permanent installation. That being said, I once had a studio where I ran a hose through a length of PVC pipe inserted through the wall and used quick disconnects on my hose and tank and would disconnect when not in use.

I think if you're running gas into a house, there are limits to the pressures that are allowed and they (building inspectors) really want you to have a shut-off valve on your side of the wall.

[metalbone]

yeah, I'm running hose from my outside tank though the door, and I use a quick connect too. But i do not have a valve inside at the torch, just at the regulator. I may have to revise things a bit.

[Dale M.]

Here is something to chew on .......

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum....php?f=7&t=208

Dale

[Cathy at the Beach]

Dale- thanks for the great pic. I will print this off and use that installation!

[EaglesLegacy]

Dale, to quote you from that link...

The reasoning behind using metallic piping through wall is because if you have rubber hose and plastic pipe, it possible for rubber hose and plastic pipe to allow propane to leak into wall structure and cause an explosion once it reaches enough concentration for ignition... Also its NFPA code that any "wall penetration" needs to be in metal piping in a residence for the very same purpose stated above...

What is the concentration you are referring to? How much danger is there in using and storing the 1lb bottles of propane? I currently use 1lb cans and store them in the garage (where I lampwork) detached from my torch. Is this a safe practice or should I be taking them outside once I'm done? Also, is pooled propane visible?

[Dale M.]

Ok... Some basics.........

Pooling propane is NOT VISIBLE.... It does have a odor though. IF you are there to smell it.

I don't have the air/fuel ratio for combustion/explosion at hand to give you at the moment. As soon as I find the the ratio, I will pass it on for you... And anyway that point is moot as you have no way to measure it....

Here is just one site with in depth explanations about PROPANE...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propane..._and_reactions

Here is additional reading about propane safety....

http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1
http://www.flameengineering.com/Propane_Info.html
http://www.gasco-propane.com/Files/safety.html
http://www.nfpa.org/aboutthecodes/Ab....asp?DocNum=58
http://www.npga.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=530

1 pound cylinders are considered safe for indoor use and storage (providing the valve in neck is not leaking) this is covered by NFPA rulings ...

However if storage temperature are exceed to be what is considered safe, (130 - 140° f.) there pay be a danger of excessive pressure causing cylinder to burst.

Something more to read.........

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...c.php?f=12&t=9

Like every thing in our lives when used within normal bounds and by following instructions we are pretty safe..... Violate the 'rules" there are consequences...

Want to see what propane can do when abused?... Go to U-Tube and search propane and fire....... Look what happens when idiots put propane tanks in a fire then shoot them with high powered weapons... This will make you respect the potential of propane ...

Dale

[EaglesLegacy]

Thanks for the info and for the reassurance that I'm being safe. I'm probably almost the most phobic when it comes to fire. I had been using Map-Pro but for budget reasons I've temporarily switched to propane, so I'm a little nervous (probably unnecessarily) about the switch.
Ok, I had to check out the youtube videos. What absolute idiots! On the other hand, here a nice educational one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0QlMbu3Gik

[Dale M.]

Good find!

Dale