Propane Ventilation...

[MardiGrasGlass]

Let me preface this with, I understand if yall want to nominate this for "stupid question of the day"......

BUT.....

I have been told ventilation, ventilation, ventilation.... And I understand that you are burning fuel, yadda yadda yadda. But my question is where does the danger lie? From the burning propane, or the heating of glass?

The reason I ask is because my family, especially my Grandparents houses and such, have always burned propane in the house without ventilation etc. They all have those old ceramic heaters that stood on four legs. And it wasn't natural gas because the "gas man" would come and fill up those huge silver propane tanks in the back yards.

Now this could probably go in the "hold my beer and watch this redneck chronicles" but in fact, my father taken one of those old heaters and retro fitted it with a hose and connected it to a 20LB propane tank, and thats what he uses to heat the hunting camp. (and just for reference, I am originally from South Louisiana.... think "Deliverance".... can you hear the banjos? Yeah I'm from right about there!)

So is the danger from the fumes given off by the buring propane, or from the heated glass? Because my grandmother is 80 something years old and still sits next to her Dearborn, propane fueled, ceramic heater.....

[BugNerd]

My grandparents still use those propane heaters. I'm curious also.

[Dale M.]

Propbably 90 percent of the danger comes from flame byproducts, maybe 10 percent comes form heavy metala releases from glass when heated or from fuming processes.... So "both" thing are a danger.

If the old heaters are catalytic they do not produce the quantity of carbon monoxide and nitrogen oxide gasses that a open flame does...

Being the fact the open flame DOES produce carbon monoxide gas which makes you drowsy and will put you to sleep (maybe permanently) and nitrogen oxides when mixed with moisture produces nitric acids that can burn tissue (your lungs) , ventilation is first order to maintain your health.....

Most new propane (heat) stoves on market today do require ventilation. Some of the older stoves still around and still in use may be illegal by today's standards.

IF you don't want to take my word... Do GOOGLE search for "carbon monoxide poisoning" an "nitrogen oxide"...

Here e is some places to start for carbon monoxide poising...

http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/coftsht.html
http://www.carbonmonoxidekills.com/
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/carbo...article_em.htm

OR here for nitrogen oxide...

http://www.epa.gov/air/urbanair/nox/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_oxide

After some serious reading you may have different opinion of the gas stove your parents or grand parents have had in home for last 50 years....

I know in my new home which has propane cook stove I can smell flame byproducts in kitchen after burners have been on only a few minutes if I don't turn on vent fan in hood, and I have not even moved in yet, I was only "testing" stove....

Dale

[RSimmons]

In a torch situation your bigger problem is (are) the nitric oxides generated more than the CO. Nitric oxides are serious chronic respiratory irritants that are formed at high temperatures from the nitrogen in the atmosphere. You don't see the same level of nitric oxide generated in a kitchen cooking situation or a space heater because the temps aren't as high. The flame temperature is probably a bit lower as you have an air/fuel flame on the stove compared to the higher pressure oxygen/fuel flame. You don't have superheated pot/pan surfaces (I hope you don't, anyway) compared to the temps reached by melted glass in the flame. The you get into boiling off metals, fuming, etc.

Gas heaters should be vented, as evidenced by the requirements that we now see. Just because they weren't at some point in the past doesn't make it OK, just a certain number of people survived the encounter - statistically some will, more won't. While your grandma has done OK, there are a lot of others that probably didn't

Ventilation, IMHO, remains as important as your torch when it comes to setting up a work area that is safe and useful. Not as sexy as a hot new torch, but just as important if you want to keep doing this for a long time.

Robert

[mandyjw]

You also probably wouldn't have your nose right next to the propane heaters or stove flames for hours like you do your torch when you make beads.

[houptdavid]

Originally Posted by MardiGrasGlass

The reason I ask is because my family, especially my Grandparents houses and such, have always burned propane in the house without ventilation etc. They all have those old ceramic heaters that stood on four legs.

Think of their house compaired to a new "modern" house...drafty, little to no insulation...there is more ventilation in Grandmas house than you think.

[MardiGrasGlass]

Well, after my first few days of torching, I can definitely understand the need for ventilation, and why the torch differs from the old ceramic heaters. When I originally posted, I had no idea that the flame from my HH was going to be as big as it is. That alone compared to the flames from the old heaters is significantly different. Needless to say, my window is open and I have two fans running on high pushing everything out!