Using Propane with a Hot Head

sharon12345 · #1 2009-08-12, 5:36am

I am new to lampworking, and have already found myself addicted to this hobby! Its great fun and I am enjoying being creative.

I am using a Hot Head with the Mapp gas in the #1lb yellow containers. After reading a variety of posts in this forum have discovered that people are using propane instead of MAPP gas: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...highlight=mapp

An obvious benefit in switching for me is that propane costs less money. My concern is will the propane give me the same results that I am getting with the MAPP gas? And does propane on the hot head require an oxygen tank?

Thanks for any and all assistance!

Dale M. · #2 2009-08-12, 6:25am

Most people do not see any real difference between propane and MAPP or MAP-PRO.... Temperature wise propane is a few hundred degrees cooler (2300°f- or something close to that) than Mapp or Map-Pro. .. No oxygen tank is needed with a HH no matter what the fuel is... HH is a fuel/air torch and will always draw the air from the room to support combustion process ....

Dale

shawnette · #3 2009-08-12, 10:43am

There's not a big difference in MAPP or Propane when you use the bulk tank, however, there can be a huge difference between the 2 when using the 1lb cannisters. I have never had a dirty cannister of MAPP, but ever cannister of propane I've used, except 2 have been dirty. If you want to switch to propane, I suggest using bulk propane, not the little cans. (The little propane cans are an excellent cheap way to practice getting your shapes and techniques right. The colors just come out yuckala sometimes. Not a really big deal for practice beads, especially when you consider that the propane cannisters are 1/3 the price of MAPP.)

klcbeads · #4 2009-08-12, 11:46am

I agree with Shawnette. I have to say I scummed up a heck of a lot more beads with the propane cannisters to make propane a bad choice for me. It is a couple bucks cheaper than Mapp but it runs cooler and it also took too long to get any real work done. It is still possible to get a dirty Mapp tank which will cause scum but the risk is minimal to propane.

ewdb · #5 2009-08-12, 11:56am

i was able to use the 1lb canisters of propane successfully for over 2yrs. i did find the quality varied between manufacturers and eventually just stuck to the Coleman brand. Still use them when i pull out the HH.

Last year, Coleman modified their 1lb tanks so they can be disposable in municipal recycling rather having to be hauled to the hazardous waste dump. that was a big plus for me.

cakelady · #6 2009-08-12, 12:45pm

I agree also. One thing I did have problems with was the propane tank itself. I was using an old exchange tank. At first no problems but once propane was maybe 1/4 from the bottom, all my beads turned black. It took me lots of reading and talking to everyone I could think of to finally figure out , it wasn't the gas , but the tank. I purchased a new tank from lowes and had it filled local, NO MORE problems . Just about went nuts until I had it figured out. Good luck and have fun.

Lorraine Chandler · #7 2009-08-12, 11:25pm

How did Coleman modify their 1 pounders? Can you direct me to an article on it somewhere?

Lorraine

ewdb · #8 2009-08-13, 5:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2 TOUCANS

How did Coleman modify their 1 pounders? Can you direct me to an article on it somewhere?

Lorraine

sure, here: http://www.coleman.com/coleman/recycle/cylinder_dis.asp

Dale M. · #9 2009-08-13, 7:36am

Actually Colemans "green Key" tool will work on any fuel cylinder that has "disposable" cylinder threaded connection....

Dale

CelesteK · #10 2009-08-17, 2:15pm

I use bulk propane and rarely have a problem. However, today I did! My tank was nearly empty and I ended up with sooty beads and the flame was too high. Turning it down caused other issues...So, I disconnected my hose and my tank is ready for my husband to take and fill for me tomorrow. I'm hoping he has time--he's in the last of wheat harvest and is super-busy, but it looks like it could rain.

Celeste

lunamoonshadow · #11 2009-09-03, 12:09pm

I

my bulk BBQ tank--it served me for several years on my hothead (ok, more than 4--my beads should so be better than they are

) & now it's converted over nicely to serve my cricket. For $40 it was the best thing I ever did for my hothead--I bought it brand new & empty, had it filled, & just took it for refilling--it's MINE--so no swap outs--I know where it's been, how it's been treated & that it's been taken care of, no crap in the bottom of the tank, etc.
Much better than throwing out hundreds of little 1# tanks too--"greener" & heck of a lot cheaper!

SilverRiverJewelry · #12 2009-09-03, 12:49pm

I just started a couple of weeks ago. I started with the one pound MAPPpro canisters, and have just purchased the bulk propane tank and the longer hose I need to run it to my work bench from outside. While I was waiting for the hose to arrive I have been using the one pound canisters of propane and I am not having a problem with those at all. Granted, I am totally new but I really couldn't tell the difference between the two types of gas and don't have any problem melting anything with the propane. I also use a hothead.

Lulu · #13 2009-09-03, 7:00pm

So does Mapp come in bulk tanks or just the 1 pounders?

Dale M. · #14 2009-09-03, 7:08pm

MAPP is no longer available....... The replacement is MAP-PRO... Which is Propylene... Have not see MAP-PRO in bulk but welding supply should have Propylene in Bulk...

Dale

Findlay Clan · #15 2009-09-14, 10:34am

Yes you can get bulk tanks from a welding supply company. I was also able to get the reuglator and hosing from them so everything has the correct fit. So nice compared to the 1lb tanks. And no gunk so far.

Thanks Dale for all your advice through the forums.

NorLigh · #16 2009-09-14, 10:56am

I use a 7 lb tank of Propylene. I once tried propane in a pinch and didn't appreciate the sootiness of my beads.

The Propylene works great for me! I bought my tank for about $60.00 and get it refilled for $20.00. Call around and ask your local welding supply houses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeslieCox

So does Mapp come in bulk tanks or just the 1 pounders?

Dale M. · #17 2009-09-15, 6:23am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Findlay Clan

Yes you can get bulk tanks from a welding supply company. I was also able to get the reuglator and hosing from them so everything has the correct fit. So nice compared to the 1lb tanks. And no gunk so far.

Thanks Dale for all your advice through the forums.

Regulator???........ Hot Head does not use a regulator....

Dale

Vicki B. · #18 2009-09-16, 6:09pm

Just used my first 1 lb canister of Map Pro (I had really stocked up on Mapp last year) and was relieved to find that it didn't seem too much different than Mapp. I was using raku size 0 frit and THINK that I might have gotten better colors out of it than with Mapp - possible? - or wishful thinking?

I don't like that the canisters are 14 oz rather than 1 lb, but they do seem to be about as hot - at least when first lit.

fannydotson · #19 2009-09-16, 6:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale M.

MAPP is no longer available....... The replacement is MAP-PRO... Which is Propylene... Have not see MAP-PRO in bulk but welding supply should have Propylene in Bulk...

Dale

I left the hardware store today wit a 1# can of MAPP. It is yellow, just like Map-Pro. What is the difference?

On another note, I read an article about how terrible bulk tanks were to use with a HH, because of the hoses...
http://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/20...ot-head-torch/
What is ya'll'
s opinion?

What kind of hose do I need to get?

fannydotson · #20 2009-09-16, 6:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by lunamoonshadow

I

my bulk BBQ tank--it served me for several years on my hothead (ok, more than 4--my beads should so be better than they are

) & now it's converted over nicely to serve my cricket. For $40 it was the best thing I ever did for my hothead--I bought it brand new & empty, had it filled, & just took it for refilling--it's MINE--so no swap outs--I know where it's been, how it's been treated & that it's been taken care of, no crap in the bottom of the tank, etc.
Much better than throwing out hundreds of little 1# tanks too--"greener" & heck of a lot cheaper!

I am all for greener and cheaper. Where do I get an empty bbq tank from? Lowe's, Home Depot?

What a great idea!

Dale M. · #21 2009-09-16, 7:16pm

Here is most up to date information on hot head and fuels....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...c.php?f=12&t=7

Dale

lunamoonshadow · #22 2009-09-18, 9:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fannydotson

I am all for greener and cheaper. Where do I get an empty bbq tank from? Lowe's, Home Depot?

What a great idea!

I got mine from my local true value hardware

fannydotson · #23 2009-10-09, 4:41am

Question:
I am going to get t bulk tank today. The window the hoe will be going through is about 4 -5 feet above the ground. So the tank will be about 5 feet below me, and about 6-7 feet out from where I will be torching. Is there enough pressure in a regular BBQ kind of tank to get the propane up tp my torch? Do I have to elevate the tank? Thanks!

lunamoonshadow · #24 2009-10-09, 5:14am

Should be plenty of pressure--just make sure the torch is OFF/closed when you open the tank!! (or by the time you get back inside to light it, half the tank will be in your house--whoops!--and you'll be living with open windows & fans & NO FLAMES for a long time!)

fannydotson · #25 2009-10-09, 5:16am

Cool, Thanks!

fannydotson · #26 2009-10-09, 2:36pm

OMG! I wen tot Home Depot, Lowe's, The local hardware store, the local Napa, and three places that sell propane, and NO ONE had a hose the length I needed (15-20) with the connections I need for my HH! AAAGGGHHHH!!!! So, how is the least expensive/best place to get the hose from. I have been to a few of the sites that advertise here, adn get prices anywhere from 23.00-29.00, but they do not all specify if they can be used with the HH. I need advice asap. I already got the bulk tank...but I can't use it...waaaah!

Dale M. · #27 2009-10-09, 6:07pm

There is no specific hose for hothead..... Most hoses are off shoot of camping world.... You need a hose with male disposable connector (threaded part - to match base of HH) and has at other end a POL connector that fits tank valve... OR a hose that has a female "disposable" connector on one end and a male "disposable" connector on other, and a adapter from female "disposable" connector to "POL" connector on propane tank.....

Picture is a male/female "disposable" connector hose with a POL adapter...

Sporting goods store are most likely to have long hose.....

You may want to print out picture and take it with you......

Dale

fannydotson · #28 2009-10-09, 6:25pm

I read in your "Everything you wanna know about bulk propane adn more" thread, that I need to get a 15-20' hose. I can't find any longer than 12'. Is that okay?

Dale M. · #29 2009-10-09, 8:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by fannydotson

I read in your "Everything you wanna know about bulk propane adn more" thread, that I need to get a 15-20' hose. I can't find any longer than 12'. Is that okay?

If you want tank outside (YES) and torch inside and you can arrange it to be done with 12 foot hose, yes its ok....

http://www.mcmaster.com ... Page 3331... 24 foot....... And can be coupled together to make even longer ...You will need to order end connectors to fit on hose also....... This is most expensive way to get hose length you need, about $70....

You may just want to upgrade to fuel/oxygen torch .....And forget HH and move beyond hose/bulk tank issues....

Dale