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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2014-05-31, 3:06pm
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Default Why did this shatter?

I'm guessing at the answer, but wanted expert opinion from you folks.

So yellow and black (effetre) heavily encased with one of the Double Helix clears. I know the hot colors (yellow, red, etc.) don't like to be encased, but I thought if you had more other colors or clear, it was ok....or is that 10 - 15 - 20% (?) rule for something else?

And I've never ever had issue with compatibility using DH clear; it's all I ever use.

Oh! And it's kinda huge; like 1 1/2" across...don't know if that would make a difference though.

Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 2014-05-31, 5:26pm
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It looks a lot like incompatibility cracking to me. Another possibility is the size - did you extend your annealing schedule to accommodate a thicker cross section?

Robert
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  #3  
Old 2014-05-31, 5:42pm
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I thought it looked like incompatibility. Just never has that problem before with dh clears. I haven't changed my annealing schedule in years. I make a lot of marbles and no issues so far with it. Maybe it's the yellow....there just wasn't that much in there. Oh well.
Thank you for your input. I appreciate you taking the time.
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  #4  
Old 2014-05-31, 6:49pm
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I don't know much of anything, but I've been hold that sometimes yellow will shift Coe and become incompatible when used with certain glass. Don't know whether it's true or not, but I've seen it happen in fusing.
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  #5  
Old 2014-05-31, 7:11pm
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Really??? That's interesting!
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  #6  
Old 2014-05-31, 8:58pm
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I know that several heating and cooling cycles for some hot colors can cause the COE shift - you have to watch it when fusing for instance.
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  #7  
Old 2014-06-01, 2:43am
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Well that's got to be it then! I know the wigwag design I was trying to achieve on that particular bead, took nearly 2 hours; lots of heat and lots of gravity.
Thanks for your help.
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  #8  
Old 2014-06-03, 6:27pm
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Aye. We tend to forget that as we heat these lovelies of ours that we are cooking them too and things change when they are cooked.

I learn something from every one here every time I come here.
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  #9  
Old 2014-06-04, 1:13pm
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It's definitely incompatibility and it's probably the yellow. Can you please post your findings in this thread? I started one so we could have a place to keep this info in one thread. A service to the glass community, I call it that. It should be a sticky.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=265519

Thanks!
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  #10  
Old 2014-06-04, 6:12pm
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Sure. I was not aware that some colours can change Coe. I'll go check the colour number and then forward the opinions stated here over in your thread.
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  #11  
Old 2014-06-04, 6:16pm
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Does anyone feel I should try this exact bead again but with effetre clear instead of DH? Even though we're pretty sure it's the yellow?
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  #12  
Old 2014-06-04, 6:41pm
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You could try it, but I have read way too many times that the specials don't like to be encased. That sucks because the combo is cool!
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  #13  
Old 2014-06-04, 6:43pm
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Good. I won't waste my time then.
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  #14  
Old 2014-06-09, 11:37am
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Not wasting your time on another bead is a good plan. Cadmium-selenium colors, by which I mean the vast majority of opaque red, orange, and yellow glasses, are simply problems waiting to happen. Very often you don't have to wait long.

Because their basic chemistry is different than the standard soda-lime glass that most of us use, at best they are usually just marginally compatible to start with. And their compatibility tends to get worse from there. As others have mentioned already, the more heat/cool cycles they go through, the more their COE is likely to change.

I won't get into what I personally think of the 15% (or whatever number) compatibility "rules" I often hear. But it isn't much...

But here's a rule I just made up - if you have cracking problems with beads that contain opaque yellow, orange, or red glass, ALWAYS suspect those colors of being the culprit first.

Brad
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Last edited by glassmaker; 2014-06-09 at 11:45am. Reason: typo
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  #15  
Old 2014-06-09, 12:19pm
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How about pink? Or is it not related to red?
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  #16  
Old 2014-06-15, 4:18pm
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^good question.

And just 'for science', I made 2 beads last week, one effetre black/thick swirl of 408/effetre clear. The other effetre black/thick swirl of 408/zephyr, just since zephyr is so soft it made me curious. Both are one inch rounds and both were heated and cooled 3 times each then encased, both are in tact...so far. How long did it take for yours to shatter?

I have to say, not sure if this is related or not since it is not encased, I had made a stacked dot bead - aqua base/yellow 408/orange/red/dot of zephyr. This was made weeks ago and it is shattered?? It is not encased.
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  #17  
Old 2014-06-15, 4:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotusbunny2009 View Post
How about pink? Or is it not related to red?
No, the pinks are not made with the same pigments as the reds. Most of them can be problem-free, except I have read that CiM Cranberry is trouble if you encase it or use it for encasing.
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  #18  
Old 2014-06-15, 4:54pm
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The one above was shattered by the time it cooled off; when I opened the kiln the next morning.

I'm sure, and consensus agreed, that it was not the DH clear but in fact the yellow. The hot/special colors can change Coe when super heated.
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  #19  
Old 2014-06-22, 4:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenesque View Post
^good question.

And just 'for science', I made 2 beads last week, one effetre black/thick swirl of 408/effetre clear. The other effetre black/thick swirl of 408/zephyr, just since zephyr is so soft it made me curious. [snip]
With regard to Zephyr (or any other glass) being "soft", the viscosity of two different glasses at working temperatures is basically irrelevant regarding their compatibility with each other. I can formulate two glasses - one glass that's soft as warm butter at the same temperature where another is stiff as cold molasses, and still have them fit each other properly.

In the context of glass compatibility, the only viscosity that matters is where the strain point of the glass is, meaning the temperature at which a glass becomes stiff enough that whatever strain is in it at that point is permanently locked in at lower temperatures.

Brad
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  #20  
Old 2014-06-22, 9:00pm
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Thank you. This is a big help and explains some past failures with red!
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  #21  
Old 2014-06-24, 12:32pm
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Hi Julie
Can't wait to see ya at Glass Stock West

I encase most of my beads

Try making your core out of the same clear that you are going to encase with....then thinly case your color ( black & yellow) shape swirl whatever ... Then encase with clear

This way there is only a very thin layer of grumpy glass between the clears- like a grumpy glass sandwich

Since most of my beads are large (ha!) I usually make a core of clear and then thinly case my color over it. Frugal but also since clear is stiff... On larger beads it holds it's shape better

Hugs

Lisa
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