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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2009-04-25, 11:39am
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Storm Queen
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Gosh Traci....that's just sad. My best guess with all this info is that 935 is just too cool of a kiln for Diamond Clear. That was my same conclusion for the Fish Pink/Terra beads. I decided that either the Fish Pink didn't like it that cool or that the combo didn't like it that cool because they were definitely thermal cracked.
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2009-04-25, 11:41am
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Senior Member
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Traci - don't get upset, but they will all crack. That's at least what happened to mine.
I'm still not 100% that the annealing temperature is the culprit. That's the temperature I'm always using with my Diamond Clear. Never had any issues. Why with the TN2.1 suddenly?
And I will also test the T-256 on top of Hades encased with Diamond Clear just to see if I can replicate the cracking. As mentioned, when I used it on top of Vetrofond Black with Diamond encased I didn't have issues.
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Judith
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2009-04-25, 11:43am
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Tacki
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I really want to put the TE-256 over black because I think the colors pop more over it, but unfortunately the only blacks I have are CIM Hades and CIM Tuxedo. I haven't bothered to buy any plain ol' Moretti black since I like the CIM blacks so much better. Do you think that could have anything to do with my TE-256 cracking and yours not cracking?
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2009-04-25, 11:44am
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Amy - I'm not absolutely convinced about that.
I used always 248 F (2 hours) for my Diamond Clear encased silver glasses. No matter whether it was Terra, Psyche, Terranova 2, T-256, Luna, Triton. I never had any cracking issues.
So why suddenly with the TN 2.1 do the beads crack?
Maybe it's the TN 2.1 that needs higher annealing temperature, not the Diamond Clear?
Or maybe only in combination with Diamond Clear?
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Judith
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2009-04-25, 11:44am
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Storm Queen
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Well you have to remember that every glass is a bit different. Maybe the TN2.1 and the T256 are just a little more sensitive to temperature. Or maybe the new batch of Diamond Clear is. Or just maybe there really is an issue with a batch of Diamond Clear. I got mine about two or three weeks ago from Ron.
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2009-04-25, 11:45am
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Tracy - that might be. That's why I want to try your combination to see what happens. I know that some CIM colors require higher annealing temperatures, maybe the Hades is one of them?
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Judith
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2009-04-25, 11:49am
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Tacki
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I thought it was just the colors like peacock green and halong bay that needed to be annealed higher. I don't recall seeing anything about hades needing to be annealed higher. I've made tons of beads with hades and haven't had any problems until now.
As far as the TN2.1 possibly needing to be annealed higher, if you look at that picture with the 2 rows of beads, that entire top row is TN2.1 annealed at 935 with vetro or moretti clear. I haven't lost a single one of them.
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2009-04-25, 12:05pm
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Tacki
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
Location: DFW, TX
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If it helps to figure out the issues:
TerraNova2.1, purchased directly from Double Helix, date of 1-15-09 on the labeled rod
TE-256, purchased directly from Double Helix, date of 12-17-08 on the labeled rod
Diamond Clear firsts, purchased from Ron last week
CIM Hades, purchased from Moretti and More in December '08, numbers on the wrapper: 511820, and C0820
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2009-04-25, 12:06pm
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A True Woofer
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Location: the land of nod
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Somewhere someone mentioned TN2.1 not liking to be encased. It might have been in the encasing Aurae thread. So I just got some TN2.1 and today made one test bead of TN2.1 encased in diamond clear. I put it glowing into the kiln at 925 and now it's soaking at 950 and undergoing my usual ramp down.
I'll definitely report back if I see any cracks.
Here's that post. It was Judith's comment that got me wondering.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...va#post2469559
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Ellen
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2009-04-25, 12:34pm
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Tacki
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
Location: DFW, TX
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No Aether today 
I'm firing up my kiln right now, so I'm about to start torching. I'm going to keep my kiln at the same temperature today to test some stuff out. I'm going to encase various silver glasses with Diamond Clear, and I'm going to make some TE-256 beads with Hades and encase that in my old Moretti clear and see what happens. Wish me luck...
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2009-04-25, 1:46pm
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Senior Member
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Location: ohio
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I had a similar problem with bullseye a few years ago and I found that if I put the beads away hotter, I didn't have the problem.
Good Luck!
Mary
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2009-04-25, 2:08pm
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Does my glass look 2 big?
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Join Date: Jun 21, 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 613
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I'd like to comment on this issue.
I made several beads of mine that I call Frozen in Time(like my avatar picture). The are 75% clear. Every single one of them I made with Diamond Clear cracked. Every single one of them I made with Effetre Super Clear, didn't.
Hayley helped me out trying to eliminate issues. First I thought it might be the murrini, my schedule, not warming it enough before garaging. Nope. It was Diamond Clear in this and only this particular style of beads. ALL my other beads made with Diamond Clear, my Captured Wings and my Inner Fields are fine.
I got some Aether for the first time, I made two Frozen in Time beads with it, they are fine.
So.... I won't use Diamond Clear, which I have from Ron and Frantz, in my Frozen in Time beads, but will continue to do so in my other beads.
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2009-04-25, 2:43pm
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Tacki
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Location: DFW, TX
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lol, I have zero willpower. I just sold a bunch of stuff in the garage sale so I could get myself a creation station finally, and I just blew every single bit of it on DH's website. I went there to get just another 1/4lb of TE-256 and wound up buying half a pound of it, PLUS another 1lb of Aether, PLUS 1/4lb of Luna2.1, PLUS 1/4lb of Aurae dark. What's wrong with me???
Oh well, maybe I'll get some good beads out of this "investment" and be able to buy a creation station soon(ish).
My test beads are in the kiln as we speak. I made 2 of each of these beads, one encased in DC and the other encased in regular Moretti clear. TAG Green Dali, Triton, Psyche, Striking Color B-MP, Michelangelo. I made each of the beads the exact same way, but used different clears to encase. I guess we'll see tomorrow which ones made it and which ones didn't.
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2009-04-25, 2:52pm
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Senior Member
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Olimpia, so did you figure out what was the deciding factor that this style of beads is cracking with Diamond Clear?
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Judith
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2009-04-25, 2:52pm
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Senior Member
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hahaha, Traci - I hear you.
I made a resolution two weeks ago (or is it only one?) to not buy any more glass for the next 6 weeks.
I think I put in 3 different orders since then ... just can't resist all the pretty colors 
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Judith
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2009-04-25, 2:55pm
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Tacki
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Location: DFW, TX
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It just seems like every time I really like something I only have 1-2 rods of it, and everything I'm not crazy about I wind up with at least 1/4lb if not more. I know that I love Luna2.1 and TE-256 so I need to get some more, especially the TE-256 before it's all gone. What is that one, anyway? Some Khaos prototype?
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2009-04-25, 3:02pm
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Does my glass look 2 big?
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Join Date: Jun 21, 2006
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 613
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We came to the conclusion perhaps that Diamond Clear has a batch that is not a perfect COE of 104. It doesn't matter as much if the encasing isn't very deep or constitutes a small part of the bead as whole, but causes a lot of trouble if most of the bead is clear.
This was just a conclusion we came to without testing the actual COE of Diamond Clear. I have no idea how to test the COE of any glass.
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2009-04-25, 3:29pm
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Tacki
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Location: DFW, TX
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Here's the Diamond Clear I have. I should probably note that I bought the Diamond Clear from Ron, and it was from the special he had last week on Diamond Clear odds: http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127411 I received the glass and there was a note wrapped around it from Rocio that said they ran out of the odds, so she sent me firsts instead. There's a thread in the customer service kiosk where lots of people were saying the same thing http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127994 ... they ordered the odds and got firsts instead. I don't know if any of this matters, but it is what it is. The rods mostly look crystal clear, but there are some scratches and a few inclusions, and half of the rods are much thicker on one end than they are on the other end.
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2009-04-25, 6:44pm
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da General
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I was teaching a photoshop workshop all day today and just had a chance to check this thread.
Traci - it's not your annealing schedule. I don't believe it's thermal - especially the ones on the far ends since the cracks are not "clean" on those beads. I honestly believe it's the Diamond Clear . . .
Olimpia and I spent over a week doing the process of elimination with her MANY cracked beads (very sad!) . . . her cracks were fairly straight, always along the mandrel line but most did not go through the entire length. After discussing her annealing schedule, the glass she used (all Effetre and Diamond Clear), and her making MANY beads to test out our different theories . . . she finally made the some beads using Effetre Clear and Effetre Super Clear with the same Effetre colors as the others and none of those cracked (like you, Traci!).
Our conclusion was that there was a batch or two of Diamond Clear that was not 100% compatible (could be the COE, could be the viscosity) with other COE104 glass.
I have used Diamond Clear for years and annealed all my beads with silver glass at 920F, soak for 1.5 hours, ramp to 750 over 2.5 hours- and never had any cracking issues. But I haven't bought any DC for a while.
None of my Terranova 2.1 beads have any compatibility issue being encased with either Aether or Diamond Clear.
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Hayley
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2009-04-25, 6:51pm
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Gay rights R human rights
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Ok so the question is, when was this batch of diamond clear produced? I have pounds of it (havent torched much 104 lately) and now im afraid to use it.
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"Very funny, Scotty. Now beam down my clothes."
Remember kiddies..."WRAP IT BEFORE YOU NAP IT!!!!
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bravo torch with 2 ex20's
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2009-04-25, 6:52pm
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Storm Queen
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The other question is...did anyone let the glass maker know about this?
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2009-04-25, 6:53pm
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Storm Queen
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Leslie, it sounds like your safe because this all seems to be from recent DC. I just bought mine but it's fine. I'm halfway through it and I've had no cracking.
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2009-04-25, 7:18pm
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da General
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Olimpia will able to answer when she got hers. Our theory is that it's just a wee bit off perhaps, thus it depends on your clear to other glass ratio. . . same concept at the 96 furnace glass being compatible if used 10%. We don't know when the ratio needs to be for it to start having issues tho.
Amy - Do you use DC only as dots over your silver glass – just surface decoration and not for heavy encasement?
Again - this is our theory after Olimpia made over a dozen of the same style beads . . . since Traci is having the same situation (DC encased beads cracking, Effetre encased ones not) . . . it may be an accurate theory after all.
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Hayley
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2009-04-25, 7:22pm
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Tacki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiggybubba
Ok so the question is, when was this batch of diamond clear produced? I have pounds of it (havent torched much 104 lately) and now im afraid to use it.
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No idea when it was produced, but like I said, I ordered the odds from Ron & Rocio and got firsts instead because they ran out of the odds. I just got the glass yesterday, so it was sent from them earlier this week. I've sent a PM with the link to this thread to the others in the customer service kiosk thread that also said they got the firsts instead of the odds to see if they've had any issues like me. I'll check my beads from today in the morning and take pictures and see if the other beads I made with that Diamond Clear also cracked.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDesigns
The other question is...did anyone let the glass maker know about this?
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No, I haven't. I wasn't sure if it was DC issue, but now it looks like it is. If my other test beads from today with DC cracked (Green Dali, B-MP, Psyche, Triton, Michelangelo) then I think it's safe to assume that it is a DC issue. I'll post the results and pictures tomorrow regardless of what happens.
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2009-04-25, 7:58pm
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Tacki
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Location: DFW, TX
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Hayley or Amy, should I send a rod of my batch of diamond clear and have you guys make beads like I did to see if the same thing happens to you guys?
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2009-04-25, 7:59pm
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Tacki
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Join Date: Oct 26, 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley
Olimpia will able to answer when she got hers. Our theory is that it's just a wee bit off perhaps, thus it depends on your clear to other glass ratio. . . same concept at the 96 furnace glass being compatible if used 10%. We don't know when the ratio needs to be for it to start having issues tho.
Amy - Do you use DC only as dots over your silver glass – just surface decoration and not for heavy encasement?
Again - this is our theory after Olimpia made over a dozen of the same style beads . . . since Traci is having the same situation (DC encased beads cracking, Effetre encased ones not) . . . it may be an accurate theory after all.
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I should also point out that all of the beads that cracked are at least 40% DC, if not more.
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2009-04-25, 8:12pm
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Storm Queen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley
Amy - Do you use DC only as dots over your silver glass – just surface decoration and not for heavy encasement?
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I've been encasing original Terra, T265 and TNT. I say it's about 30-40% DC.
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2009-04-25, 8:40pm
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Catnip Pusher
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I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, but a while ago when I got some TerraNova I encased it with Vetrofond "super" clear - and they all cracked in exactly the same way. I anneal at 950, with a very slow ramp down.
I have done TerraNova beads recently with Diamond clear (all I'll use now), with no cracking issues. The Diamond clear I have was from Paula at FlameDame (when she had the odds on sale earlier this year).
Of course, with all of this handmade glass there are sure to be variances.
Aimee
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2009-04-25, 8:49pm
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Tacki
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolychromeBeads
I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion, but a while ago when I got some TerraNova I encased it with Vetrofond "super" clear - and they all cracked in exactly the same way. I anneal at 950, with a very slow ramp down.
I have done TerraNova beads recently with Diamond clear (all I'll use now), with no cracking issues. The Diamond clear I have was from Paula at FlameDame (when she had the odds on sale earlier this year).
Of course, with all of this handmade glass there are sure to be variances.
Aimee
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Was it the original TerraNova, TerraNova2, or the newly released TerraNova 2.1?
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2009-04-25, 9:12pm
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Senior Member
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Oh my ... I think we opened a can of worms here.
So what do I do with my 1.5 lbs. of Diamond Clear if there is really a COE variance (or some other reason) making this batch incompatible?
And Aimee, your posting makes the whole issue even more complex. Just when we thouight we figured it out. Thank you (just kidding)
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Judith
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