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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #31  
Old 2008-05-27, 9:29am
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Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
That would be great, Brent, if you don't mind. I know that you are busy, as am I, but if you want to talk to Jack on my behalf about replacing the three replacement units, that would be nice.


You know, that line about scaring orders my way was really uncalled for. I'm not trying to scare anyone. I got a new tool to test concentrators and reported my findings. If the findings had been positive for my M-20, I would have reported that, too. I'm not doing this for myself. I'm doing this for the community.

ouch Brent thats pretty cruel considering she is suppling some findings and just not peddling her wares.

I'm not in the O2 business thank god; I rather wear a big bullseye on my back during hunting season in the woods of the northwest. And I'm not trying to under mind your sales either Mr Smiley. the fact is you have a talent in lampworking and know the in and outs of glass, I respect that. if I was to purchase a OU product from anyone it be you. I rather deal with someone active in this field than some moron sitting behind a desk, submitting one liners on the forum and not having a clue about anything out side of making a quick buck.

I still say thanks Kimberly for the time you have taken in your testing.
Murf
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Last edited by murf; 2008-05-27 at 9:32am.
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  #32  
Old 2008-05-27, 9:36am
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Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
Yes, I hear quite a bit about his good customer service because there have been quite a few problems with his machines that he has responded to. . . .

It's great that Jack has such great customer service. It would be better if the quality control at UO was better, though.
I want to jump in here and clarify my comment about Jack and his great customer service . . . I had the pleasure of dealing with him NOT because I had ANY problem with my UO units. I ordered a Hurricane and it turned out to be a lot louder than I thought it would be. Jack was happy to swap it for two M15 units. He suggested sending me one M15 to make sure that it's what I wanted and it was damaged during shipping. He sent another one immediately, then the second replacement later. He also arranged to have the Hurricane picked up. And Jack picked up the shipping cost for all the units, including the return!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
Like I mentioned earlier, I now have a device that definitively measures concentrator output. I can test lots and lots of machines and see if I really did have the "worst luck in the world."
Quote:
Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
. . . I got a new tool to test concentrators and reported my findings. If the findings had been positive for my M-20, I would have reported that, too. I'm not doing this for myself. I'm doing this for the community.
As I mentioned before . . . I love it that you are testing the units with your new tool (I love data!) but I think it serves the community better if you test a currently available unit of your competition instead of a discontinued one. What's the purpose of testing the M-20 . . . to show that it's an inadequate unit? Well if it were up to par, UO would still be selling them. UO fixed the issues and came out with the M-15 instead and those are awesome machines. I have two of them and they make my Barracuda sing! Granted I only have them for a few months but with a three-year warranty and the known fact that Jack from UO will take good care of me if anything does go wrong with the machine, I am a happy customer!!!!
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  #33  
Old 2008-05-27, 9:41am
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Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post
Murf. The claims that any concentrator doing more than what it can do bothers me too. You've never seen me say one will do something it can't. I've been honest in public and private about what to expect and how things will work together. I do most of my matching up behind the scenes and I've never had an unhappy customer. I've had to re-educate a few on what's really possible. I treat concentrator sales just like my glass sales... up front and honest.
What do you mean be "re-educating a few on what's really possible"?

Quote:
If you're referring to two M-15s being better than one Regalia... I whole heartedly believe they are. I've seen what two M-15s will do together and I've run the pants off of two M-20s in my own studio. Hands down, I put my name behind the UO units any day of the week.

I've seen some claims that a Regalia will power torches that it just won't... well, it will kind of power it, but in Kimberly's own words, it powers a Cheetah at 65%, yet it's still a recommended match. In my opinion, that's really not a match at all. I think it sends the wrong message to the end user.
When people ask about the Regalia and a Cheetah, I tell them what I know. When I give that conservative estimate (65%) of it's performance (keep in mind that that is what it will do here at my elevation 6000-6500 ft), I accompany that with a description of the work I can do on it. Sometimes, I even give the measurements of the flame along with it. I let the user decide if that will meet their needs or not.

It's funny you should mention a Cheetah and the Regalia in the same breath with UO claims of how certain torches run on their machines. There was a woman at the KC Gathering who was running one of their units on her mid-sized torch. She tried a Cheetah on a Regalia and was blown away by how much hotter it was than what she had. So, even though the Regalia did not power the Cheetah to 100%, or even 90%, it was enough to impress her and meet her needs - better than the UO machine that she had.

Quote:
It was my understanding that you didn't even get a unit from UO... that you ordered it, but decided to get a refund before it shipped. Is this wrong?

As far as the Hurricane running a Phantom, I have no idea what the specs are for a Phantom. Perhaps Kimberly could post the manufacturers data.
Why don't you get the specs from UO? If they put on their website and advertise that a particular unit powers a particular torch to a certain percentage, they the ought to know both their machine's output and the intake requirements of the torch they're making the claim about.


Quote:
Some times, but not always, it's also the fault of the torch companies. It's not always easy to get good data from them on what their torches require to run. There's so much misinformation out there, that I find it difficult to make suggestions on torches I'm not all that familiar with. I do my very best and am completely honest if I don't know for sure.
The torch companies did not put those specs up on UO's website, UO did.

Quote:
I don't dispute the fact that there have been problems with UO units in the past. They don't either. Nothing has ever been swept under the rug. There were purity issues in the beginning, but that was caused by bad information from lampworkers during the development of these units. Somebody told Jack that volume was more important than purity and as soon as he found out different, he addressed that issue.
First you said the problems were due to shipping problems. Now you say that it was purity problems due to some lampworkers giving Jack bad information.

I can tell you, because I know a little about concentrators and how they work, that the problems with my M-20 was not due to shipping.

Quote:
He has addressed every issue that's come up along the way. He has met head on any of those issues you can find by googling. If anything needs to be changed, Jack will listen to us. The difference between the other medical units and what UO offers is important in understanding why one can find more complaints about UO. Those other units are just not offering what UO is and they don't deviate from medical industry outputs. Before 3 years ago, nobody else was willing to listen to our needs for more volume and higher pressure... they still aren't.
So, Brent, what exactly are the medical industry outputs? The companies that make medical units also make indistrial ones. Have you ever seen the Onyx+? That unit puts out 17 SCFH (that is a little over 8 LPM)and 20 psi. Wow, wait a minute, that is actually more than the M-15 and it is a machine designed by engineers to do that. Anyway, Wally tested one right before he tested an Integra10. In fact, he was so impressed that he paid for it. Then, he received the Integra10 to test. The Integra10 outperformed the Onyx+. So, Wally got a refund for the Onyx+ and bought the Integra10. He then shipped that unit to me. I could sell the Onyx+ units if I wanted to. However, the Integra10/Regalia outperformed it (for I believe the same price range), so I did not bother.

Quote:
UO is doing something nobody else has done... and that's why they've had issues.
There's a reason why other companies do not do what they are doing. The suppliers I use for my reconditioned machines have been in business for nearly 30 years. They know concentrators inside and out. If they believed that what UO is doing would work in the long term, don't you think they would be doing it, too?

The manufacturers of the medical units have access to the same parts (compressors, seive material, etc.) as everyone else. There is a reason that Respironics machines are only rated to put out what they do. If changing a little thing here and there would make that big of a difference, they would do it.

Quote:
Of course they've had issues... we all do when we try something new. I for one admire and appreciate a company that's willing to invest in what this industry needs and I was willing to let them make mistakes along the way as long as they stood behind it and make things right. They have indeed done that. Some folks have expected perfection from a new idea right away... not me... I just expect them to keep getting better... and they have... much better.
Why should unsuspecting customers pay for UO's research and development?

Quote:
I probably won't ever change your mind about UO... and I can live with that. I've seen some really great things from UO time and time again... to me, that's the most important quality.
Whatever works for you. You have your standards, and others have theirs.
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  #34  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:00am
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Hayley, I tested the machines that I have here. I am sure that I will end up testing any M-15 that I am asked to test.

Why are you questioning me giving out data on the M-20? Is it just because it is no longer being sold? By that logic, Brent should not be using his poistive experence with his M-20s to sell M-15s.

There were still plenty of M-20s sold to lampworkers and I am sure that my findings are useful or at least interesting to someone out there.
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  #35  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:01am
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I don't know why nobody else has done what they are doing. It's more than a little thing here or there. Of course others have the same access to materials, but they have not taken the next step or listened to our industry. Maybe they lack the drive or ambition to figure it out and be a pioneer. I know there are medical units like the Onyx+, but they are way more than I could afford. That just goes to show you it's possible... thank you. UO made it affordable.

Customers have supported me by buying my work along the way... as we improve our skills, our work improves. I didn't rip off the people who bought pieces from me years ago, just because the ones I make now are much better. What I sold then was the best I could produce at the time... it's gotten better and I am very thankful there were people supporting and continue to support me as I grow. The same can and does apply in our industry with tools. There are advancements all the time. It's up to each one of us to decide where and how to spend our money... UO has had my support... and they will continue to have it, unless they do something dishonest or mistreat my customers. So far, that's not an issue. If it ever becomes and issue, I'll let everybody know.

You all have fun and I'll check in after my trip to Oregon.
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  #36  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:13am
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Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
Hayley, I tested the machines that I have here. I am sure that I will end up testing any M-15 that I am asked to test.

Why are you questioning me giving out data on the M-20? Is it just because it is no longer being sold? By that logic, Brent should not be using his poistive experence with his M-20s to sell M-15s.

There were still plenty of M-20s sold to lampworkers and I am sure that my findings are useful or at least interesting to someone out there.
That would be great! I would love to see the result on the M-15!

The reason I questioned you about the M-20 is that if Honda was testing its hybrids against Toyota's, Honda would use the latest model of the Prius and not the earlier model. M-20s had some issues and thus UO replaced them with the M-15s . . . just as Toyota had improved the older Prius and came up with the current version. Contrary of what you said - I think that Brent's positive experience with his M-20s speak volume of how well the M-15s are since they have been improved from the M-20s!
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  #37  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:21am
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"Like the Medical Integra 10, this unit puts out 10 LPM at 7-9 psi ... BUT... the similarity stops there. The Regalia is made specifically with lampworkers in mind (when SeQual knows there is a need, they listen). The Regalia has a built in sensor that will keep the flow steady at whatever setting you choose...regardless of the temperature or humidity. This concentrator will very easily power up one or two minor burners at a time or a bobcat and will be the perfect compliment for the Lynx, Bobcat, Barracuda, Mini CC, MidRange, etc....fully self contained, no holding tanks or accessories needed!"

This is a quote from Kimberly's site about the Regalia. No where in this information are percentages. There is a blanket statement about the regalia being able to "power up to one or two minor burners". What does that mean? I know for a fact that it won't power them at 100%...

"Benefits of the Regalia

* LCD display versus flow meter - The LCD display is easier to read.
* Flow touch control membrane (digital control) versus flow meter - The touch control membrane is adjustable, up and down, in 1/2 liter increments, up to 10 LPM. Flow meters are subject to change due to temperature, humidity, vibration, bumping, etc. The intelligence built into the Regalia will automatically adjust to outside influences and will keep the desired flow. "


Apparently it won't hold an actual flow rate, if you're at higher elevation... no where does it state this. This leads every one to believe that this digital device will hold a specific flow rate no matter what and is more reliable than a flow meter with a ball. Maybe that only works at sea level... I'm sure she'll update her site as she gets better data on her units.

If you're going to pick apart a companies claims about what torches their units will run, do it to them all. It's partly opinion on what's acceptable. I choose not to make blanket claims as to what concentrators will power what torch, unless I know for sure. That data is not available on every torch and I personally don't have time to gather it right now.

I'd really like to see the requirements for every GTT. Kimberly, can you please get that information for us from your husband and post it? It would be most helpful to know what each GTT needs to run at 100%.
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  #38  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:23am
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Being affordable does not miraculously make something better than it is. Like I said, the Onyx+ puts out more than the M-15, but was still outperformed by the Regalia. Just by using simple logic, you would know that the Regalia outperforms the M-15, too.
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  #39  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:26am
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That would be great! I would love to see the result on the M-15!

The reason I questioned you about the M-20 is that if Honda was testing its hybrids against Toyota's, Honda would use the latest model of the Prius and not the earlier model. M-20s had some issues and thus UO replaced them with the M-15s . . . just as Toyota had improved the older Prius and came up with the current version. Contrary of what you said - I think that Brent's positive experience with his M-20s speak volume of how well the M-15s are since they have been improved from the M-20s!
If I were trying to pit one product up against another, then, I could see your point of comparing like for like. However, I'm just gathering and posting data.

But... I do think that the whole experience we had says something. That fact sould not be lost.
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  #40  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:29am
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ouch Brent . . .
. . . if I was to purchase a OU product from anyone it be you. I rather deal with someone active in this field than some moron sitting behind a desk, submitting one liners on the forum and not having a clue about anything out side of making a quick buck.
Ouch back to you, murf. I have spoken with Jack many times and he does have a clue about many things and is NOT out to make a quick buck. He is old school and does business the old fashion way - by picking up the telephone . . . not every one is technology savvy . . . someone who is not comfortable with emails and internet doesn't make that person a moron sitting behind a desk.
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Last edited by Hayley; 2008-05-27 at 11:11am. Reason: typos!
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  #41  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:40am
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If I were trying to pit one product up against another, then, I could see your point of comparing like for like. However, I'm just gathering and posting data.

But... I do think that the whole experience we had says something. That fact sould not be lost.
I beg to differ. If you are a consumer like me just playing around with a new testing toy you just purchased, then yes. But you are a vendor and you are testing the machines you sell against the machines that your competitions make, then you are in fact pitting one product up against another . . . yours against theirs. Your intention may be pure but it doesn't come across as such, just MHO.
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  #42  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:44am
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Brent, I am building a new website as we speak. I built the old one in less than a week's notice using the site builder from my host. I cut and pasted what Paulette had on her website. My host changed platforms and did away with that program. So, I am stuck having to rebuild one since I cannot edit the one that is up to include the new information that I am finding. But, nevertheless, I have posted all sorts of information here and elsewhere on what the Regalia can do. I also answer tons of email and give specifics.



As far as holding a steady flow, the Regalia does hold the flow steady, regardless of changes in temperature and humidity, etc. It does not creep up to above the recommended flow rate like other machines can. It does not drift down for those reasons, either. The change in elevation causing a lower flow is something else and it affected all machines I tested. I made that clear in my original post.
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  #43  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:49am
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I run my Cheetah on the Regalia and absolutely love it. I only do soft glass work, but I did have to stop using the boro punties I have when I accidentally melted it into a piece I was working on.

I also ran my Cheetah on tanked oxy at the Retreat. I have noticed very little difference in Regalia vs. tanked. The only differences I noted was tiny yellow tips on the candles when running from the Regalia, and not being able to strike some silver glass I used this weekend. That could just be my inexperience though, not sure about it.

I am in Edwardsville, Illinois so don't know my elevation.

All in all, I can only comment on my experience, but I LOVE my Cheetah & Regalia combo and glad that I went with the Regalia vs. some other units.

Frankly, all the bad press that I kept hearing about OU/UO units, and poor customer service (going back to WC even) kept me from even considering them as an option. I decided I didn't need any more headaches in my life.

My 2 cents,
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Now running my Cheetah on 2 Regalia's - pure heaven!


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Last edited by Miss Kate; 2008-05-27 at 4:42pm. Reason: OU/UO
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  #44  
Old 2008-05-27, 10:50am
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Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
Being affordable does not miraculously make something better than it is. Like I said, the Onyx+ puts out more than the M-15, but was still outperformed by the Regalia. Just by using simple logic, you would know that the Regalia outperforms the M-15, too.
Ok, so in your experience, a $1500 + unit that claims to put out more oxygen, out performs a single unit at much less than half the price. Oh... ooooh... you got me. You win.

Now, if your claim is that it will out perform TWO M-15s, send me one to evaluate. If it's that good, I'll probably keep it and pay you for it. Might even sell them for you, if you're looking for a good distributor. I'm sold on the UO units. Let me plug my Cuda into a Regalia and be amazed.
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  #45  
Old 2008-05-27, 11:01am
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Originally Posted by kbinkster View Post
Brent, I am building a new website as we speak. I built the old one in less than a week's notice using the site builder from my host. I cut and pasted what Paulette had on her website. My host changed platforms and did away with that program. So, I am stuck having to rebuild one since I cannot edit the one that is up to include the new information that I am finding. But, nevertheless, I have posted all sorts of information here and elsewhere on what the Regalia can do. I also answer tons of email and give specifics.



As far as holding a steady flow, the Regalia does hold the flow steady, regardless of changes in temperature and humidity, etc. It does not creep up to above the recommended flow rate like other machines can. It does not drift down for those reasons, either. The change in elevation causing a lower flow is something else and it affected all machines I tested. I made that clear in my original post.
Had to quote it...
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  #46  
Old 2008-05-27, 1:39pm
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Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
Ouch back to you, murf. I have spoken with Jack many times and he does have a clue about many things and is NOT out to make a quick buck. He is old school and does business the old fashion way - by picking up the telephone . . . not every one is technology savvy . . . someone who is not comfortable with emails and internet doesn't make that person a moron sitting behind a desk.
did I ever any time state that moron was Jack? I think not and no I was not referring to Jack.

there have been other people on this forum no long in the vendor sections that would just drop one liners to irritate or plug their wares. thats a fact.
they would post misinformation at times that just was irreverent and cloud a possible good thread.

I am not the type to call out one person publicly and state they are a moron. I have a phone, and if need be will tell them so directly.
sorry you took that moron statement incorrectly



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Kobuki*Delta Elite*Mirage*Blast Shields*two DeVilbiss 5 LPM* tanks* foot pedal.

Last edited by murf; 2008-05-27 at 1:43pm.
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Old 2008-05-27, 1:56pm
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Originally Posted by murf View Post
did I ever any time state that moron was Jack? I think not and no I was not referring to Jack.

there have been other people on this forum no long in the vendor sections that would just drop one liners to irritate or plug their wares. thats a fact.
they would post misinformation at times that just was irreverent and cloud a possible good thread.

I am not the type to call out one person publicly and state they are a moron. I have a phone, and if need be will tell them so directly.
sorry you took that moron statement incorrectly

Murf
My apologies - I misunderstood . . . glad it wasn't Jack you were referring to!
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  #48  
Old 2008-05-27, 2:14pm
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Kimberly, thanks for taking the time to do the testing and posting your results!

When I was a newbie, I was an early UO adopter and ordered a unit that was spec'd at 10LPM only to find out many months later that it was actually a 5LPM machine. Since I paid nearly twice what I would've for a 5LPM unit, I'm not a UO fan. And even though MiniCCs are supposed to work fine on 5LPM, after a few months I had tremendous flame fluctuation from good to non-existent. I eventually ran a longer hose and put the UO unit inside in the air conditioning and had better results but it still didn't (in my experience) run a MiniCC very well. And, I'm guessing that high humidity and temps had a very high impact on the UOs performance.

I ordered a Regalia last August and still love it. And the best part about the experience was Kimberly's fabulous customer service.
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  #49  
Old 2008-05-27, 2:16pm
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no problem.
k thing that gets me is this.
Kimberly is posting some good information here and seems to being attacked for doing so.
I bought into a hurricane do to the specs and claims that UO made. I didnt make this up, they did. I no long see these claims
there is a lot of negative feed back with the UO machines and service to be honest.it is just not me. not sure if I as a consumer would have made the purchase knowing what I know now and certainly would never make the purchase with the follow up of customer service I received. if some one would steer me to the negative feed back of the Regalia that would be great.

Murf
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  #50  
Old 2008-05-27, 2:23pm
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Originally Posted by Miss Kate View Post
I run my Cheetah on the Regalia and absolutely love it. I only do soft glass work, but I did have to stop using the boro punties I have when I accidentally melted it into a piece I was working on.
Thanks for the info on how your Cheetah runs on the Regalia.
I think my Integra needs a Cheetah. As soon as I clear my credit card from the bulk buy of silver, I am ordering one.
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  #51  
Old 2008-05-27, 2:57pm
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I have a question about the differences between the Integra and the Regalia, and the website didn't explain it well enough for me to understand. Integras are $1210 on some websites new in box, with free shipping. Regalia's are $1550 plus shipping. What accounts for the $340 price difference (and even more depending on shipping)? I'm not being a smartass, I just want to know.

Also, does a Regalia fully (as in 100%) power a bobcat or lynx, comparable to a tank, to work boro exclusively? Cheetah power isn't meaningful to most people with smaller torches.
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  #52  
Old 2008-05-27, 3:18pm
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Kimberly, thanks again for doing all this work, and I'm really sorry for the negative turn this thread took for you. I guess I'm unclear why people should be upset when you stated at the beginning that this is an M-20 that you tested and UO doesn't even make that particular unit any longer. I think it's really important to have real numbers and hope that you have the opportunity to test many other units of all kinds so that we can have the correct information in order to make the right decisions for ourselves. I will be very interested to hear how the OG-20 that I have comes out in your tests, and I promise I won't get upset if it doesn't do as well as people expect. What I do know is that it works for me and what I want, and I think that's the important thing. (although I do wish it was a little quieter!!)

Please continue letting us know the information when you have the opportunity to test more of these pieces of equipment.

Thanks again.
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  #53  
Old 2008-05-27, 4:01pm
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i bought my m-15 from brent graber ie mr smiley. using my previous concentrator i had a fluctuating flame which i attributed to poor propane flow. once i increased the propane flow out of the propane container things improved. my m-15 does work like a dream. i have had absolutely no problems with mine. brent is right, we do know where to find him if their is a problem!
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Old 2008-05-27, 4:44pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginko View Post
Thanks for the info on how your Cheetah runs on the Regalia.
I think my Integra needs a Cheetah. As soon as I clear my credit card from the bulk buy of silver, I am ordering one.
Deb - it's too bad you didn't get to come to the MO Bead Retreat! My Cheetah was there for all to play with!
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Old 2008-05-27, 7:59pm
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Hey y'all, i would like to state a couple of facts just to keep the record straight. GTT did not buy the units we sent them. We offered them to GTT for testing purposes. Obviously, I wish they had worked for them. I dont have any idea why they did not when so many others did. I would like to have them back to do my own testing. These units are at least three years old and yes, we have made many improvements since. I would happily trade them for a couple of M15s if Kimberly wants to send them back. I would also like to thank our many customers for supporting us and speaking out about their experience. I personally was not at the show in Kentucky 3 years ago to witness anything that took place. Paul was there and made all arrangements and agreements, I just tried to make good on them, as I am still doing months after he left the company. I have always and will always make good on any of my equipment. We are always looking for ways to improve and add new items to our line up. I am in the process of implementing a different unit for our M15 because the Millennium we use for the base unit is getting very hard to find. This is the number one cause for the delay in filling our orders. We are hard at work on it and I will have the website updated shortly also. jack
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  #56  
Old 2008-05-27, 8:18pm
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Deb - it's too bad you didn't get to come to the MO Bead Retreat! My Cheetah was there for all to play with!
Believe me, I wanted to be there! Not just because of your Cheetah, tempting as it is!
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Old 2008-05-27, 9:13pm
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I think it would be more helpful if we could continue to get numbers instead of these "religious" arguments that nobody will win.

For example, I'd be interested to know from Mr. Smiley, and anybody else, which torch is used, with which oxycon, and how many hours are put on it each week and how many months it's been running at that rate.

Those would be interesting and useful numbers to me, just as Kimberly's numbers have been interesting and useful, and I'll be interested for additional numbers as she's able to collect data.

I had an M10 from UO for about 2 1/2 years powering a mid-minor, 6-8 hours a day, 4-5 days a week. It died, and boy was it loud at the end. After much difficulty, Jack swapped it out for an M15, which lasted under 5 months (died earlier this month). The candles started becoming orange on the tips, and finally it "blew a gasket" or something, because now the machine hisses, and doesn't get all the O2 to the torch -- it leaks somewhere inside.

I sent Jack an e-mail from his website more than 3 weeks ago. Absolutely no response. And no, it didn't get caught in my spam filter because I check it regularly.

I bought one of Kimberly's Invicta's. It's working fine, and it got here quickly, which is what I needed. I'm a full time beadmaker, tanked oxygen is really prohibitively expensive for me because of where I live, and as Kimberly mentioned in one of her earlier posts, something to the effect that she didn't know what someone would do if their livelihood depended on a reliable machine. That describes me. Glass beadmaking is my livelihood. I need something I can depend on. Bead and Button will be here in less than two weeks, and I'm screwing around with yet another UO oxycon that has in my opinion, prematurely bit the dust.

Her data supports my real-life experience, sorry to say. Guess I'm another unlucky person where this is concerned.

But again, it would be a heckuva lot more meaningful if when we talk about these things we could quantify it somehow.

Patti
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  #58  
Old 2008-05-28, 6:02am
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Patti,

I'm running two M-20 concentrators on my Cuda. They have been in almost daily use for over 2 and a half years now. I'm a full time lampworker and they run at least 6 hours at a time.
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Old 2008-05-28, 6:04am
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I'm all for gathering data and posting results... I want everybody to get the right concentrator for them... it doesn't have to be from me. I'm a lampworker first and only sell the UO units, because I use them myself and believe in them whole heartedly.
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Old 2008-05-28, 2:30pm
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emphasis mine
Quote:
Originally Posted by oxydoc View Post
Hey y'all, i would like to state a couple of facts just to keep the record straight. GTT did not buy the units we sent them. We offered them to GTT for testing purposes. Obviously, I wish they had worked for them. I dont have any idea why they did not when so many others did. I would like to have them back to do my own testing. These units are at least three years old and yes, we have made many improvements since. I would happily trade them for a couple of M15s if Kimberly wants to send them back. I would also like to thank our many customers for supporting us and speaking out about their experience. I personally was not at the show in Kentucky 3 years ago to witness anything that took place. Paul was there and made all arrangements and agreements, I just tried to make good on them, as I am still doing months after he left the company. I have always and will always make good on any of my equipment. We are always looking for ways to improve and add new items to our line up. I am in the process of implementing a different unit for our M15 because the Millennium we use for the base unit is getting very hard to find. This is the number one cause for the delay in filling our orders. We are hard at work on it and I will have the website updated shortly also. jack
No, Jack, allow me to set forth a couple of facts and keep the record straight. You have now leveled some accusations against GTT that are untrue and are calling into question my honesty.

In a thread on another forum, I posted about the offer for GTT to be a distributor and how they wanted to test units first and then were invoiced for them. You replied with:

...The info that was posted on this site is based on our first try at a modified unit nearly 2 years ago. We have spent the last two years perfecting and testing our equipment. GTT was never offered our machine for any other purpose than testing. Obviously objectivity is not their strong suit, since they have their own line of concentrators.

First of all, GTT does not sell concentrators, I do. Second, GTT was indeed offered a distributorship. I have the proof right here. I did not post it over there before, but now that you are calling me a liar (again) about GTT buying those machines, well, I figured I had better just put it all out there. We're not going to just sit back and be called liars.

Here is the Distributor Plan (we obscured the prices) and a letter to your distributors (and I guess prospective ones, since you sent one to GTT):




Here is the invoice for the three machines that GTT purchased


You are claiming that GTT did not buy the units you sent them. You are also putting it all off on Paul, saying that you were unaware of the goings-on. And, you are basically calling me a liar, again, Jack. Well, here is your signature on the back of the cancelled check:



GTT was invoiced for and paid for the machines before they were able to test them. They figured that they could sell them later. Well, after testing them and returning them and testing the replacement units, they were not about to pass them off on anyone else. They had buyers, but they also had a conscience and needed to be able to sleep well at night. So, there they sat, unsold. W&W figured that they were stuck with them since the original six month warranty had passed.

Now, if you are still willing to replace the machines with current ones, let's talk. How about you replace the two M-20s with two M-15s and the M-10 with a current model M-10, if the new M-10s perform better than the older ones with the condition that we will run these new units for a specified length of time (how about continuously for five weeks straight) and will be sampling them during that time and if the units fall below 90% purity and/or 15 psi pressure at their highest rated output (8LPM), you will take them back and refund the original purchase price of $1810.00 USD? I will post the test results and they will be actual measurements and not just exclamations of "It rocks!" or "It runs nicely."

Neither I nor GTT were in the concentrator business when you sent those machines. We had no bias. Even now, with me having my business selling concentrators, GTT and I are still searching for a machine that puts out higher flow and higher pressure than what we have now with high purity. It must perform as advertised for me or GTT to even consider selling or recommending it. If your machines are as good as you are claiming they are now (and that would mean that they would have to perform well in the long run, too, not just right out of the box), well, we would be happy to sell or recommend them. It's unfortunate that we have not yet had that experience.

BTW, the original units were sent out in late 2005. They were returned and the three replacement units (one of which I have here) were sent out some time in 2006. That is only two years ago. Two years is not a long time, especially when you are discussing equipment that should last much longer than that.

If you would like to apologize to me and GTT for calling us liars, we'll accept your apology.

And please accept my apology for not noting in my original post that the M-20s were discontinued. I thought that that was common knowledge, since they are not listed for sale on your website and it just did not occur to me that anyone would think that I was implying that they were current models.





Oh, and Brent... did Jack's post coming on here and lying about us count as "being dishonest"?
(and yes, it was a lie to say that GTT never paid for their units when they in fact had)

Oh, and purity problems, compressors wearing out, units dying after five months of use, and things like that are usually NOT caused by shipping mishaps... just so you know...
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