I need help with encased florals that have more than one layer of petals

squid · #1 2010-09-28, 7:12pm

Anyone know of a good tutorial that specifically addresses multiple layers? I have tried the "same orientation" second layer, the "offset orientation" second layer and mine look terrible.

If I encase between the layers, the layers don't look like they belong together - and if I don't encase, they hardly look like separate layers.

Help?

gemsinbloom · #2 2010-09-28, 7:20pm

Pictures?

Are you layering the petals this way?

1. opaque
2. transparent
3. opaque
4. transparent

squid · #3 2010-09-28, 7:21pm

Yes, op, trans, op, trans. I don't have any pics, but supposed I could get some

gemsinbloom · #4 2010-09-28, 7:23pm

Which glasses?

I just realized that I may not be any help. I got great definition when I was using bullseye glass for encased florals. I have never had much luck with others.

gemsinbloom · #5 2010-09-28, 7:25pm

squid · #6 2010-09-28, 7:27pm

I use Bullseye for florals.

houptdavid · #7 2010-09-28, 7:29pm

Squid check the latest newbie challenge in the gallery!

gemsinbloom · #8 2010-09-28, 7:33pm

Oh crap. Then I need to see a picture of your beads please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

I use Bullseye for florals.

squid · #9 2010-09-28, 7:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by houptdavid

Squid check the latest newbie challenge in the gallery!

thank you!

gemsinbloom · #10 2010-09-28, 7:38pm

I just remembered something as I have not made florals in awhile.

Don't melt the petals down completely. Leave them slightly raised when you go to encase. It gives your flowers more depth.

houptdavid · #11 2010-09-28, 7:40pm

And when you get it figured out...please tell me!

Mine end up looking like a tri point hat. But then I was trying with Bullseye!

squid · #12 2010-09-28, 7:46pm

I've made some nice single layer ones, but the two layer elude me!

gubnavnania · #13 2010-09-29, 1:29am

Squid, you don't have to encase the whole bead b4 putting the second layer unless you can encase it really really thin.

Try put another dot of clear or two dots on the top of transparent.
1. Opaque;
2. transparent;
3. clear (clear again). If possible this clear is covering the whole previous dots ---> when you are melting the clear you don't need to melt it flat - slightly melt and you can flatten it with marver to give more depth;
4. opaque;
5. transparent;
6. then encase.

For 3 layers, put another clear again after second transparent.

Kevan · #14 2010-09-29, 2:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemsinbloom

I just remembered something as I have not made florals in awhile.

Don't melt the petals down completely. Leave them slightly raised when you go to encase. It gives your flowers more depth.

Say wha? You never mentioned this before! You didn't put this in the tut.

ukiacat · #15 2010-09-29, 7:25am

When I make mine and want extra depth I do:

first layer:

opaque
colored transparent
Melt Flat
another dot of *either* clear or colored transparent
melt flat

for the second layer:

opaque
colored transparent
melt flat
Heat the bead so that the heat goes deep into the bead, wait a few seconds
Poke

*I usually do not put a second transparent on the top layer of petals because the thickness of glass will cause the petals to spread too far apart usually

Edited to say that sometimes you can just add a bigger dot of transparent at the beginning and skip the second layer and still get the good depth but melt slowly or all you'll do is cause the petals to spread too much. AND sometimes it depends on the colors you use and whether your opaque is softer or harder than your transparent.

Hope this helps....everyone has their own way that works for them....this works for me

glassactcc · #16 2010-09-29, 7:30am

Well, one more opinion can't hurt. I place my opaque dots on my bead and melt in almost all of the way but still leave just slightly raised. I then apply my trans color covering the whole white dot. Melt down just until the dots start to converge. Warm up the whole bead, not just the dots when melting down the petals. Take a marver, preferably the Osibin Lentil Shaper if you have one, it is wonderful for it's curved shape. Let a "skin form on the petals and press the cool flower into the hot bead. Press straight down, don't roll. You can turn the bead and press again but you have to "travel", you can't spin the bead. The petals should sink down into the bead, but stay stable and not smear. Repeat for as many layers of petals your little heart desires.

Get it? If you come over I'll show you.

LyndaJ · #17 2010-09-29, 9:10am

You have to go inside the first layer when you lay down your second layer of dots.

So if you're doing a 5 dot flower, you
lay down 5 largish opaque dots in a pentagon.
melt in partly
crease (if you want)
add transparent
melt in completely, focusing heat in the center of each flower so the dots draw in some.

for the second row of dots,
-add a smaller opaque dot (split the distance between the middle of the large dot and the eventual center of the flower
-melt in mostly
-crease
-add transparent
-melt in completely again focusing in the center of each flower
-plunge (with stamen cane, etc)

round out bead

encase.

It's kind of like the rainbow petals but reversed - each dot goes closer to the center than the previous dots.

If you did a good job all the petals are connected. Sometimes I end up with a rouge petal that's not attached to the center. If that happens, I either re-plunge (if there's no stamen cane) or try to gently nudge the petal into the center with a stainless pick.

Bluejeangirlnc · #18 2010-09-29, 9:17am

Lynda that reminds me of Mary's tutorial. She's got a good drawing of it here: http://www.marylockwood.com/files/cr...intquality.pdf

squid · #19 2010-09-29, 11:33am

There are a lot of good tips here - I will be working with them tonight. I have been able to successfully make a two layer flower on a big bead, but trying to make them on a small round has been impossible. Everything gets all schmutzed together.

One of the problems I noticed is that if I add clear on top of the first layer of transparent, it moves the color of the transparent out to the edge of the clear - and looks terrible.

ukiacat · #20 2010-09-29, 11:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

There are a lot of good tips here - I will be working with them tonight. I have been able to successfully make a two layer flower on a big bead, but trying to make them on a small round has been impossible. Everything gets all schmutzed together.

One of the problems I noticed is that if I add clear on top of the first layer of transparent, it moves the color of the transparent out to the edge of the clear - and looks terrible.

I agree that this creates a weird "hole" in the petals. You either have to completely cover the petal with the clear or use the same color transparent as you just used....then you can put a smaller dot on it because the color blends.

LyndaJ · #21 2010-09-29, 11:59am

??? Clear on the first layer of transparent???

Do you mean a clear layer between the layers of petals? or the encasing layer?

glassactcc · #22 2010-09-29, 2:50pm

For a small round, I use the same method as I explained but start the bead as a barrel shape. Put all of your flowers on and add the clear encasement to make the bead round. YOu cannot put clear on the flowers unless you cover the whole bead, or unless you are using that as your transparent petal color.

squid · #23 2010-09-29, 2:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyndaJ

??? Clear on the first layer of transparent???

Do you mean a clear layer between the layers of petals? or the encasing layer?

Yes, a clear layer between the layers, but dotted on each petal individually. Opaque, trans, clear. Apparently what I should be doing is opaque, trans, trans to try to add to the depth.

squid · #24 2010-09-29, 2:56pm

Cynthia, does your tut cover multi layer flowers? I have been thinking about buying it.

I bought another tut on encased flowers and didn't realize it didn't include multi layer until after I bought it.

glassactcc · #25 2010-09-29, 3:47pm

Yes, it does squid. It covers dichro, and layered florals.

squid · #26 2010-09-29, 4:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by glassactcc

Well, one more opinion can't hurt. I place my opaque dots on my bead and melt in almost all of the way but still leave just slightly raised. I then apply my trans color covering the whole white dot. Melt down just until the dots start to converge. Warm up the whole bead, not just the dots when melting down the petals. Take a marver, preferably the Osibin Lentil Shaper if you have one, it is wonderful for it's curved shape. Let a "skin form on the petals and press the cool flower into the hot bead. Press straight down, don't roll. You can turn the bead and press again but you have to "travel", you can't spin the bead. The petals should sink down into the bead, but stay stable and not smear. Repeat for as many layers of petals your little heart desires.

Get it? If you come over I'll show you.

I'm going to try this - I don't have the osibin, but I'm sure I can figure something else curved out

.

Oh and I'll be there Friday for dinner and beads.

glassactcc · #27 2010-09-29, 8:52pm

Thank you Kimberly

I agree with what you say about having the transparent dot a bit heavy. I does give more depth.

Squid, let us know how it goes. I wanna see pictures.

Friday would be fine

squid · #28 2010-09-29, 9:13pm

I made three two-layer florals tonight. The leaving the dots raised a little definitely helped some as did two layers of the transparent. I still don't understand why my second layer is almost as big as the first - I made the tiniest little dots, but they spread sooo much.

Lea Zinke · #29 2010-09-30, 2:25am

Yeah, Squid, that spreading is always a huge issue with small beads. I do the same thing making my dots larger than they need to be, and end up with flowers that spread everywhere. The look is still pretty, but wasn't my intent!

Can't wait to see how yours come out!!!

theglasszone · #30 2010-09-30, 8:44am

How'z it coming along, Squidly? Please forgive if this has been mentioned already, but I thought Bousky's tutorial might give more tips and perspective to add to the mix; here's the link: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...encased+floral

Hey, different things WORK for different people, right? So hopefully this isn't adding more confusion...just more options!