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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2011-08-05, 9:42am
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Default Hot Head Question

Say ... I've got a very dumb question ... sorry, but it is. I use a Nortel Minor burner with 2 oxycons. That being said, I'm thinking of accepting an offer to teach beginning lampwork - thingofitis this place uses hot heads with MAPP gas. OK, I've heard MAPP gas has been discontinued. First question: what to do?

Second question: I bought a red plastic hot head torch at Hobby Lobby (with a coupon heh-heh) and I hooked up a propane cannister and have made 2 pretty awful beads. Does the propane cannister even work? I mean, good golly I have been so spoiled to the Minor burner. Crimeny!! This is awful. How do you all do this?

What am I doing wrong? How can I teach with this???????? OK, that's more than 3 questions.
Babette
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  #2  
Old 2011-08-05, 9:50am
New2glassgal New2glassgal is offline
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I think the red plastic torch is a fireworks brand torch not the hothead so I'm not sure if that would be the reason. My hothead works great. Second, MAPP gas is still available. You can get it at lowes or home depot in yellow canisters.

Propane does work as well. But, I use it one my hothead on a bulk tank. I'm not sure how it would work on a Fireworks torch. Maybe the torch flame is to big.
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  #3  
Old 2011-08-05, 10:04am
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Ah-ha! So I *DON'T* have a Hot Head torch... yes, I did see the brand name was Fireworkd ... and I just 'ass'umed it was what they call a hot head. This is good information. Also I can still buy MAPP gas? This is great news.

I'm getting closer to knowing what the heck is going on. Big Thanks!
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  #4  
Old 2011-08-05, 10:04am
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Fireworks
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  #5  
Old 2011-08-05, 10:24am
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I would suggest that you treat the hot head and others like it as a different beast from the torch you are used to using. I often see it stated here that the HH is just like oxy propane torches but not as hot. That is not the case and it will require a different set of techniques. I dont envy you in this.
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  #6  
Old 2011-08-06, 2:40pm
naomiwashburn naomiwashburn is offline
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I'm going through similar issues. I've only used a surface mix torch at my local glass shop, and getting used to the hothead I just bought has been challenging. I've been getting some advice from the community in this thread: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...30#post3652530

I would be really interested in hearing about how you adjust your technique to using the pure propane flame. So far that's the part that's been the hardest for me.
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  #7  
Old 2011-08-06, 7:15pm
Dreamsincolor Dreamsincolor is offline
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When you get your HH you might want to think about some earplugs till you get used to the difference in sound. They are a bit louder than the mix torches. LOL... It takes some getting used to because you'll have to learn a new way to get the effects you are used to getting. On the bright side some glass seems to like the HH better.

Andrea
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  #8  
Old 2011-08-06, 8:34pm
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Hot Head.... Also available in some hardware stores as MAG TORCH MT 245, by Magna Industries



Yes MAPP gas (methylacetylene-propadiene propane) is discontinued.... Replacement gas is MAP-PRO, comes in 16oz yellow container (in most cases) just like MAPP did.... MAP-PRO is re-branded Propylene gas....

Propane is also acceptable fuel for HH.... Some have good luck with it some don't.... But its quite a bit cheaper....

Dale
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  #9  
Old 2011-08-06, 10:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale M. View Post
Yes MAPP gas (methylacetylene-propadiene propane) is discontinued.... Replacement gas is MAP-PRO, comes in 16oz yellow container (in most cases) just like MAPP did.... MAP-PRO is re-branded Propylene gas....

Propane is also acceptable fuel for HH.... Some have good luck with it some don't.... But its quite a bit cheaper....

Dale
Hmm. Didnt know that...EPA issues? Got lots on my shelf but I dont use it for anything but very light duty in the hotshop. I can easily get by with propane for that. Maybe I should hoard the MAPP for a while. Kinda like Z99?
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  #10  
Old 2011-08-06, 10:16pm
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I was just over to Lowe's and all the yellow MAPP cans are now labeled MAPP/PRO. They're still stupidly expensive. Then I looked on the lower shelf where they were selling 4-packs of propane fat boys for something like $10.88! That's $2.72 a tank. The choice seems obvious.
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  #11  
Old 2011-08-07, 11:59am
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Some glass colors are better suited to the lower temps of a HotHead. The aqua's come readily to mind (don't boil), as do the reds (don't fade). Also, dichroics don't burn out as easy. I have both a HotHead and a Cricket set up and I tend to base which torch I use on what I'm wanting to work on. If I'm just torching to relax, I always head to the HotHead.
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Old 2011-08-07, 1:30pm
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All these notes are VERY helpful, everyone. I sure appreciate your stepping in with all this sage advice!

So, the story continues . . . I got the Fireworks torch and set up with a propane cannister - that much you already know. NOW I realize i should have had a Benzomatic torch head and Mapp/Pro Fat Boy (I'm told the longer one freezes up on you if you leave it on too long) and I tried this torching again .......... hey, this ain't horrible after all. In fact, now I'm understanding how the HH people do this a little better. I'd NEVER get rid of my Nortel Minor burner but there *is* an opening in this dark cloud of doom I've been under. <grin>

I have a meeting with the store owner in 3 days and I sure didn't want to seem stupid - that's no way to begin a relationship with a store owner.

ANDREA, thanks for the ear plug tips - interesting to say the least.
CONRAD, I appreciate your finding the Fat Boys at Lowe's for such a good price. If I have to provide the gas, I'm going there!
NAOMI, I'm sure *not* going to be using propane gas so I can't tell you how it will come out. I took it off right away and put the yellow Fat Boy on there.

Thanks so much once again for all your great help. Honestly, I could not have found this out without all of your input. Whee! LE people rock!
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Old 2011-08-07, 2:04pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabetteC View Post
NOW I realize i should have had a Benzomatic torch head and Mapp/Pro Fat Boy (I'm told the longer one freezes up on you if you leave it on too long) and I tried this torching again ........
No.... NOT BERNZOMATIC... its HOT HEAD by brand name or MAG TORCH MT 245 by brand name....

Dale
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  #14  
Old 2011-08-07, 2:46pm
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Gosh, Kay - I just walked around your website - why, it's chock FULL of great information. Thank you so much. Whew, I'm still reeling from all those great links.
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Old 2011-08-07, 2:48pm
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Dale - Oh - so I should get the MAG TORCH MT 245 ....... well, I love the name that's for sure. Online only or where can I get this?

Thanks for telling me .......... (again).
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Old 2011-08-07, 2:49pm
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....... re-read Dale's post ............. get from "some hardware stores". So I'll call around and ask. THX!!
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  #17  
Old 2011-08-07, 3:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabetteC View Post
Gosh, Kay - I just walked around your website - why, it's chock FULL of great information. Thank you so much. Whew, I'm still reeling from all those great links.
Almost all of the stuff there was done with a HotHead and Propane. If your glass is turning gray, you're probably too close in or the flame is turned too high.

Ah crap, you just reminded me I have the enamels test pages done and I haven't put them online yet. I'll leave that for another day though.
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Old 2011-08-07, 6:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BabetteC View Post
Dale - Oh - so I should get the MAG TORCH MT 245 ....... well, I love the name that's for sure. Online only or where can I get this?

Thanks for telling me .......... (again).
The HOT HEAD torch sell about $45 at the moment..

The MT 245 torch sells about $18 on at the moment....

Some interesting reading....

http://www.artglassanswers.com/forum...php?f=39&t=358

At one time some ACE Hardware dealers had MAG TORCH....

Dale
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  #19  
Old 2011-08-08, 11:11am
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Your local welding shop should carry brazing fuels like MAPP in bulk tanks. Bulk is the way to go. We have propylene down here in S. FL.
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