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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2011-12-17, 1:08am
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queenofswords queenofswords is offline
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Default Concentrator and Home Fill system

Does anyone use the Invacare homefill system for boro? There is one for sale in our local paper and I am wondering if it works. I am currently using 2 5 litre concentrators on a National. I also have a minor. They work fine for the torches I have, but I am hoping to get into larger pieces and maybe a gtt torch so will need tanked oxygen. Will the homefill suit the purpose? If so I could get the homefill and sell the other concentrators.
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  #2  
Old 2011-12-17, 6:45am
gmarv gmarv is offline
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hi queenofswords

there is a lot of people talking about the homefill systems over on the melting pot. they seem to like them, you might go over there and check it out.
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  #3  
Old 2011-12-18, 9:53pm
drew1492 drew1492 is offline
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Short answer is yes.

Long answer you will have to do research on setup either building a whip or modifying the machine. To build a whip you have to have a nipple from a bottle and track down a series of adapters and fittings and oxygen safe high pressure hose.

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  #4  
Old 2011-12-19, 9:16am
metalbone metalbone is offline
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definitely worth it if your supplier doesn't deliver to residential areas or you don't want to deal with lugging tanks. Plus, the HF systems don't generally have torch limitations like concentrators do. Drew can probably set you up for a great price if you ask him.
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  #5  
Old 2011-12-19, 11:30am
controlsfreek controlsfreek is offline
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How long does it take to fill a tank? A 10 LPM seems like it would take forever to fill a K-Tank?!?
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  #6  
Old 2011-12-19, 11:52am
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Most people only fill a tank to about 1500 psi and generally report it takes 24 hours from scratch to go to 2100 psi. In use they report overnight is sufficient to keep the tank(s) topped up. Of course that's not continuous operation but under the automatic controls of the system.

Depending on the cost of the homefill unit it can be very cost effective. There is another system gaining some attention that uses less exxpensive components and operates at lower pressure and is reported to be just as effective where a larger air tank is pressureized to 120 psi with an oilless compresor. Fittings are cheaper and more readily available and no dangerous high pressures to work with. The marble forum has a ton of info on both systems.

Last edited by cheng076; 2011-12-19 at 11:56am.
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  #7  
Old 2011-12-19, 3:30pm
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Yeah, check out the melting pot, they have a bunch of stuff over there on various oxy systems. The torch room here is a pretty good place for info too.
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  #8  
Old 2011-12-19, 9:06pm
metalbone metalbone is offline
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19 hours for a K-tank equivalent on my two-HF/two K-tank system
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  #9  
Old 2011-12-20, 9:30pm
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queenofswords queenofswords is offline
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they are asking 1800 for the concentrator and home fill or 1000 each. I have 3 concentrators already. Is the fill aparatus comatable with any concentrator?
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  #10  
Old 2011-12-21, 9:08am
drew1492 drew1492 is offline
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You need 14-21 psi at 90+% o2. When I was selling them I was selling them for $699 shipped with a whip in the US for an October Sale. I would offer them $600 for the homefill personally and see what they come back with. Look at the hours on the machine as well. If it has a lot of hours I would not touch the thing.
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  #11  
Old 2011-12-21, 3:32pm
dekejis dekejis is offline
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I'm about to give this a try myself. I just got in my homefill from Drew the other day and am waiting for my concentrator to arrive to hook it up. I am running the Carlism Black Widow, which is a major oxy hog, and the only oxy suppliers in my area are only open during banker's hours during the week and I work.
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  #12  
Old 2011-12-21, 5:15pm
deb tarry deb tarry is offline
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Let us know how this works out for your torch dekejis, curious mind like to know.
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  #13  
Old 2011-12-22, 11:49am
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queenofswords queenofswords is offline
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Here is what she told me about it. I am thinking the concentrator has a lot of hours on it, the home fill part may be okay. What do you think?

the concentrator is about 3 feet high and and the home fill sits on
top making the unit about 4 feet high and delivers from 1 to 5 liters
of air per minute. there is 9,000 hours (about 3,000 hours per year
for 3 years) on the concentrator and 200 hours on the home fill. the
tank goes with the home fill and there is tubing and canulas available
for both. i'm not sure of the size of the tank but it holds about 4-5
hours of air on the 3 lpm setting. i have not had the concentrator
recertified but would do so for a serious buyer. please call me if
you have further questions
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  #14  
Old 2011-12-22, 9:48pm
drew1492 drew1492 is offline
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9K is fine on the oxy con isnt to bad I have had oxy cons with 29k hours still put out 90+% o2. The homefill isnt bad on hours at all. I would check it out and make sure it will turn on and fill that tank before I would buy it though.
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  #15  
Old 2011-12-23, 12:29am
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good advice Drew. Is there any other special equipment I would need to make this work?

Donna
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  #16  
Old 2011-12-23, 6:38am
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sangell sangell is offline
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I have 3 m15's and I still miss the Oxy I use when I take a class. How save are the refill systems? Could some one help me with a VERY basic "for Dummies" Please ...
feel free to PM me.
On my way out for the holidays
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  #17  
Old 2011-12-23, 8:16pm
drew1492 drew1492 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by queenofswords View Post
good advice Drew. Is there any other special equipment I would need to make this work?

Donna
Just a whip like I have in the pic, and an oxygen tank and you should be set. They are pretty easy to set up, hell they where designed for old people. Metalbone knows a ton about them as well he is the one who inspiried me to do it.
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  #18  
Old 2011-12-24, 8:42pm
LePatron LePatron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheng076 View Post
Most people only fill a tank to about 1500 psi and generally report it takes 24 hours from scratch to go to 2100 psi. In use they report overnight is sufficient to keep the tank(s) topped up. Of course that's not continuous operation but under the automatic controls of the system.
I dont know who "most people" are, because nobody does it like this, I'm posting to correct this misinformation that you have provided.

The Homefill has an auto-shutoff at 1750psi, it will change the "Filling" light to "full" and disengage the compressor. Most Homefill owners also dont have a built in pressure gauge on their whips, and wouldnt have any idea what pressure its at without one unless they timed it out.

Also, 24 hours to get to a "full tank" applies for 160cuft tanks. For a K tank try around 30-34 hours.

Drew and I are actual homefill owners and pros. Happy to help with any questions too.

Price-wise the entire system with a whip shouldnt cost over $1200 or so. Shop around, craigslist, ebay, etc........
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  #19  
Old 2011-12-25, 8:57am
metalbone metalbone is offline
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I' ve filled to over 1800 psi w/o the auto timeout, I think the HF auto shuts at 2000 psi. I also use the pressure regulators on my tanks to know what the PSI is at any given time, which should be standard amongst HF users, unless you have a basic system where you have to manually switch your tank from the torch O2 to the HF whip. If you set up your system to use your existing regs, you won't have to constantly switch between the torch O2 and the HF whip, as shown below. Plus, you'll know your PSI at any time during the fill process.

I would agree with Cheng, most folks using HFs are not going to fill to the ultimate auto shut off pressure because it unduly stresses the compressors and the fill rate slows at the top end. Plus if they use multiple tanks, there is no reason at all to fill above 1500 psi.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by metalbone; 2011-12-25 at 9:07am.
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  #20  
Old 2011-12-25, 10:52am
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LePatron, as a system owner I have to believe you are correct. I don't recall where I got the info on filling pressures but I do recall reading that to save wear and tear it is/was customary to only partially fill the tanks. I stand corrected.
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  #21  
Old 2011-12-25, 8:03pm
drew1492 drew1492 is offline
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Pretty sure it shuts off at 2000psi as invacare states, and having filled to 2000psi before. After the whips I sold in the past, all of the whips either came with a gauge or a regulator attachment like metalbone shows or a series of tanks hooked together usually two sometimes 3 tanks. I have mine set up with two regs that I can pull off of if needed, and fill at the same time as I hate swapping things out, that whip pic is of the first whip I ever made just as a basic test model that slowly got more complex.

Metalbone I would probably not teflon tape the regulator to that cga 540 fitting as it is just a brass seal no telfon needed.

1500 psi is what I personally feel like is the most you should pump into a tank for longevity.

The compressor operation is controlled by the
electronics assembly. The motor/compressor is allowed to fill
a cylinder only when the oxygen concentration of the inlet gas
stream is greater than 90%. The motor/compressor fill
operation is completed when the gas in a cylinder reaches the
maximum fill pressure of 2000 PSI (13786 kPa).

Last edited by drew1492; 2011-12-25 at 8:06pm.
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  #22  
Old 2011-12-28, 7:08pm
LePatron LePatron is offline
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Invacares bottles have warnings not to fill above 1750psi and its in the owners manual for the Homefill too. I have two full bottles right now, 1750psi and 1780psi.... I checked mine twice today at the full point with drew's regulator he sold me with the whip and the regulator that is used by the torches (they arent connected together)..............

Now where I wonder if it may be different is that Invacare has around 3, 4, 5 types of Homefills, the Ventura, the Homefill, the Homefill II, etc..... They look all the same to me but I wonder if this may be one of the slight differences as safety progressed? Speculation, nothing more..........

Also to note, I fill 160cuft tanks that way every year AirGas gives me a new one for $20.... I dont rent the K, T or any other size tanks........

Cheers
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  #23  
Old 2011-12-29, 10:57am
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What are you talking about when you refer to 'the whip'? Can you tell me what it is in either of the pictures?

Thanks!
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  #24  
Old 2011-12-29, 1:36pm
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cheng076 cheng076 is offline
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The 'whip' as suggested by the name is the high pressure hose that connects the homefill unit to the cylinder. If you ever had/have one break it really whips around and can do very serious damage.
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  #25  
Old 2012-01-25, 12:08pm
boston boston is offline
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I make these whips. I use stainless rated to 3000psi. All fitting are rated to 3000psi. The homefill systems are great.
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  #26  
Old 2012-01-31, 11:42pm
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It's still way cheaper and better to just buy a couple of bigger concentrators, I run a Phantom on 2 OG20s and it is fantastic, lots of big sculpture and goblets, People I know with the fill system are all sad that they didn't just buy another concentrator.
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  #27  
Old 2012-02-01, 9:30am
boston boston is offline
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I disagree. How much did you pay for you two OG-20s? 4000 grand I owned an OG-15 good machines. Way too pricey. Homefill setup will cost under 1200 bucks. I can run my delta on it. No way your oxygen concentrator setup would run my torch at a 100%. I guess I just dont have the budget you have.
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  #28  
Old 2012-02-02, 3:05pm
Flame Ryder Flame Ryder is offline
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so with all these discussions etc, does someone have a good step by step process to set one of these systems up from scratch?

I am waiting for a booster from O2Unlimited but it cpuld be months.

Thanks,

Mike...
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  #29  
Old 2012-02-02, 4:46pm
metalbone metalbone is offline
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there are some step-by-steps over at talkglass...do a seach for "homefill" and have at it.
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  #30  
Old 2012-02-02, 6:15pm
LePatron LePatron is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalbone View Post
there are some step-by-steps over at talkglass...do a seach for "homefill" and have at it.
Every time this topic comes up you just refer people to another forum.

All the information from talkglass regarding homefills is here, too. Ask away, build the knowledge of wealth across forums instead of to *oh gasp* your thread on another site.
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