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  #1  
Old 2008-09-03, 7:33am
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Olimpia Olimpia is offline
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Default I don't get it! Da Vinci 2 comes out YUCKY!

Hello All! Please help!

Having a problem with Da Vinci 2 that I don't get. I made a couple of beads yesterday, one red with the ends in DV2, one yellow with the ends in DV2. They went in a wonderful blue/purple pearl shade, came out a yucky light and dark brown color. What's up?

Here is my schedule:

Ra ASAP to 890 Hold 8 hours
Ra 120 of 920 Hold 1.30
Ra 60 of 800 Hold .15
Ra off


Something wrong here?

Thank you so much in advance!
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Last edited by Olimpia; 2008-09-03 at 8:07am.
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  #2  
Old 2008-09-03, 7:55am
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Why are you going from 890 to 920? I am certainly no expert here, but I think that most folks follow a schedule that doesn't include a ramp up in temp.

E.g. - afap to 940
hold for however many working hours you have it set for, i.e. 8 hours
put your last bead in the kiln, hold for 1/2 to 1 hour.
Begin controlled ramp down.

My non-expert opinion is that maybe you are un-striking the glass by putting the beads in at a lower temp, then ramping up.

Maybe your temp pyrometer is off too.
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  #3  
Old 2008-09-03, 8:04am
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OK, I'm going to get the reasons wrong but others will correct me... it may be the environment inside the kiln. Try putting a pea size piece of activated charcoal (what you would use for a charcoal filter for a fish tank) inside your kiln and see if this makes a difference.

Something like this has come up before and I read about it, cannot remember the details but DO remember the fix to the problem. This may be what you are running into.

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  #4  
Old 2008-09-03, 8:05am
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Does my glass look 2 big?
 
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Thank Miss Kate. I am NO expert at all!!
I was suggested this schedule by someone that uses silver glass frequently, I am still trying to understand my kiln and why I schedule it the way I do LOL.

It has worked great with all the silver glasses I've used (not many), just Da Vinci seems to be misbehaving!
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  #5  
Old 2008-09-03, 8:06am
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Ha! Interesting Sue! That is a very easy fix, pretty easy to try. Thanks!
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  #6  
Old 2008-09-03, 8:10am
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I can't guarantee it's a fix but it sure won't hurt anything to try it. I remember Tink saying two identical kilns in the same room could have different environments inside... that struck me for some reason.

AHA!!! The "search" mode is wonderful... I found the thread and guess what? I think it's EXACTLY your problem. Title of the thread was "silvered glass unreducing!"

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...vated+charcoal



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  #7  
Old 2008-09-03, 8:39am
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Thanks Sue!
I'll be picking up some charcoal this afternoon, it's such an easy inexpensive thing to try, why not!

Thanks again,
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  #8  
Old 2008-09-03, 9:12am
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Olimpia - did I give you that schedule? I do exactly that, garaging at 890 and annealing at 920 for longer.

Kate - the recommended annealing temp for Double Helix Terra was 930 . . . at 940 most of my striking silver glass restruck darker, thus the lower annealing temp. As for the even lower garaging temp, it's because when you open and close the door of the kiln, the temp tends to lower and then spike. Garaging at 890 ensures that the top end of the spiking is around 920, thus eliminating the restriking problem.

Sue - the charcoal only works with reducing glass. daVinci 2 is a striking glass so it prolly won't make a difference.
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  #9  
Old 2008-09-03, 9:13am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by closer2fine View Post
Thanks Sue!
I'll be picking up some charcoal this afternoon, it's such an easy inexpensive thing to try, why not!

Thanks again,
Please let me know if it works and solves your problem.

Sue
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  #10  
Old 2008-09-03, 9:16am
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Does my glass look 2 big?
 
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Hayley, yep that's your schedule and it works wonderfully with every silver glass I've tried, except this DV2, which of course it's the only glass I have a full 1/2 pound of LOL.

So, if you don't think the charcoal will work, which I will just throw in a pea size piece anyway, what do you think is happening with this DV2? Any ideas?
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Last edited by Olimpia; 2008-09-03 at 9:30am.
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  #11  
Old 2008-09-03, 9:17am
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Olimpia - what type of kiln do you have? How high is the interior height? Where is the heating elements? I have spoken at length of glassmakers and kiln builders - some people with kilns that have a short interior height (4") tend to have issues with striking silver glass re-striking in the kiln because the heating elements are too close to the bead. The heating elements go full bore whenever the temp drops below designated level to ramp the temp up, the blast of heat sometimes does strike the glass. I find that it happens more with smaller beads.

Another possibility is that the temp of your kiln is a little off - running hotter than what's indicated. Try lowering the annealing temp to 910 for an extra 15 minutes.
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  #12  
Old 2008-09-03, 9:29am
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Does my glass look 2 big?
 
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Hayley,
I have a Jen Ken, 4.5" height and side elements. It's this one:
http://www.jenkenkilns.com/glass_kil....asp?KilnID=65

I talked to someone at JenKen, mentioned that I thought my kiln might be running a little hot, he was extremely nice and helpful and will call back with information. He thought your schedule was very conservative, and we ALL like conservative, right?

The beads weren't too small, about 1/2" diameter and 1 1/2" long. I will do a test bead lowering the temp and adding some annealing time.
Also, maybe I need to make sure the beads with striking glass are in the middle of the kiln, away from the side elements. Suppose it won't hurt.
Thank you.......... AGAIN!
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  #13  
Old 2008-09-03, 9:40am
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I had a regular size glasshive kiln. This one:

http://theglasshive.com/BEAD%20ANNEALLERS.html

All my striking silver glass spacer beads re-struck in the kiln. Ugh! So I had Mike Crowley custom built me one that's taller - 9" instead of 4.5" interior height. Now I can make smaller striking silver glass beads! (I am NOT saying that you need a new kiln!)

I sometimes found that the beads that were flame struck more tend NOT to restrike in the kiln than ones there were only flame struck a couple of times. Hope that makes sense!
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  #14  
Old 2008-09-03, 9:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayley View Post
Sue - the charcoal only works with reducing glass. daVinci 2 is a striking glass so it prolly won't make a difference.
Shucks! I thought I was on a roll!

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  #15  
Old 2008-09-03, 10:14am
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Aha!... yep, I struck it several times, still getting the hang of striking glass. That's another thing I need to try.

Nope, can't get a new kiln, lol, can't even sell a bead yet!!

Not that big of a deal, I can play around with striking glass but reducing glass seems to do just fine so far and so I am happy.

Thanks!
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  #16  
Old 2008-09-03, 11:25am
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I have the same height jen ken and it restruck my glass all the time - even after I knew it was over 100 degrees hot and I had corrected for it. When you talk to Jen Ken, ask them for the thinner heating coil - it does not get as hot and will help with your problem. I spoke to Randy at Jen Ken numerous times over a couple of months about this issue and this was the solution he hit upon and it worked! Also, NEVER go AFAP once you have beads in the kiln. The "as fast as possible" causes the coil to stay on 100% of the time and causes the heat to spike next to the elements(even though the display doesn't show the temp change).

It is very easy to replace the element yourself once they send it to you

For a little light reading, here is the thread in which I figured out and solved my problem.

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=49037
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Old 2008-09-03, 11:27am
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I just looked at your schedule and it will work fine once you get the lower power coil installed.
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Old 2008-09-03, 11:38am
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Thanks for posting that info, Sigrid. I remember your telling me about it. I spoke with Mike Crowley about doing that for my kiln but he recommends against that (can't remember exactly why). Seems like it's a great solution for Jen Ken kilns tho!
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  #19  
Old 2008-09-03, 12:02pm
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Wonderful! Thank you!
I am waiting for Randy to call me back, I'll mention the thinner heating coils! Yeah!

We did talk about the ASAP setting for heating the kiln and said that it's impossible to just "stop" heating at the temp you are setting. So if you do heat your kiln initially using ASAP you must wait for it to settle to its set temperature. So NO adding beads before at least 20 minutes! .. that's what he said
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Old 2008-09-03, 1:18pm
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I tend to agree with him. It takes my kiln about 25 to 30 minutes to heat up, which is about double what it took with the old coil - and I let it sit like he suggests, but it's not just the overshoot that causes the overheat. With a stand alone pyrometer, I was able to tell that with the coil turned on, the temp next to the coil rises over 30 degrees just in the 3 or 4 seconds it is on, so even in maintenance mode, it gets hot around the coils. I always put the silver glasses in the lower part of my kiln to protect it from this heat. I have a kiln rack with two levels and use the lower one.
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  #21  
Old 2008-09-03, 3:42pm
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OMG Olimpia!!!! Who cares if you never ever sell a single bead because you are a gifted glass artist already! I just looked at your stained glass work on your site and it is beyond gorgeous!!! The 4 season girls are beautiful. Do you think the paint that you use on their faces can be used on beads?
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  #22  
Old 2008-09-03, 4:07pm
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Aw thanks Suzanne!

Well the paint I used is Reusche stains. They fire at 1200, isn't that too high for beads?

I've been doing stained glass for over 20 years and I love it. I'm just playing with the torch at this point. It's my reward after 6-8 hours of stained glass work.

Thanks Again!

Olimpia
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Old 2008-09-03, 6:49pm
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Told you guys I wasn't the expert!
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