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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-08-03, 5:49pm
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Default Trouble with raku frit...?

I bought Iris Orange raku frit (not sure the sizes, the labels don't say much. there's a small-ish frit like I would us eon beads and a large chunks that I would make stringer with) because I love what I've seem made with it around here and elsewhere. I've read up on many pages (on here, WC, and other websites) but I'm still lost!
If this is at all pertinent, here's the two sizes of frit I have:


From what I've read there are two distinct styles of reducing: one that makes the rainbows of color and one that makes shiny metallics. I've had some luck with the metallic effect (like on Corina Tettinger's stringer control DVD) but none with the rainbow effect. For metallics I make my bead with the frit then heat it evenly then soak it in a huge propane-only flame for a few seconds then stick it in my fiber blanket (I don't own a kiln yet). Here's a picture of my first attempts:

(Oh yeah, I had no bead release at the time so I've been using blobs at the ends of my rods to experiment)

But that's not what I've having a problem with. I can NOT get decent colors out of the frit! I've tried many suggestions like from here. but I've been unable to achieve those results. Here are my attempts with a little elaboration:

1: This is actually on ivory (I don't remember if it was light or dark). I don't know what happened, but the frit stayed dark after I tried to strike/reduce it.
2: This is pastel white (I use Effetre btw) I think I fried the glass and the frit turned nasty brown.
3: White again. I was using my mashers to cool the glass after I headed it up with the frit to try to strike the colors, but it obviously didn't work.
4:My very first attempt. It broke later, but I did the same thing I did to the white and got a little bit of blue in some of the frit.
5: I tried to use clear glass under the frit, but I could hardly see what was going on with the frit and it ended up mostly brown.
6: This worked the best, but is my least favorite method. I put the frit on white and melted it in and got it really hot and blew on it to cool it and then encased it with clear. The colors are actually more muted in real life. I got some decent purples, but no variety. A line of frit that didn't get covered stayed khaki/green.
7: Dark ivory base. I made the blob and then let it cool and harden then heated the surface real hot (trying to let the whole bead get soft) in a neutral flame then blew on it until the glow went away. Flashed in and out of the back of the flame until there was a not-so-even dull red glow, then let it cool and put it on top of the fiber blanket (so it was basically in the air). I got some good blues, but I was unable to replicate.
8: Wtf. I have no idea what happened. I drew with stringer I made from the frit. I don't remember what I did but you can see it turned dark brown and really dark green (the almost-block arund the stringer is just from it being on ivory).

Can anybody provide simple (if possible) instructions on how to get beautiful colors out of this frit??? It's been basically hit or miss and I'd like to find a method that produced consistent results. I don't really like encasing but for floral beads, but I am open to any methods. Please help!!

Oh, and what other colors do you know to react with raku? I've found it makes dark brown on ivory (both light and dark) but I haven't played with it on anything other than ivory, black, white, and clear.

Thanks!!


One more question: would you recommend wearing a respirator when working with raku? I don't know what kind of funky metals are in it that make it work. Like I use a respirator with pixie dust and glow dust, should I wear it when I use raku?

Last edited by ailurophile; 2008-08-03 at 5:53pm.
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  #2  
Old 2008-08-03, 5:54pm
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You can't get the colors with Raku by reducing - you get it by superheating and then quick quick cooling - marvering with brass will help cool it quickly.

I would stop using ivory with it also - you will often get an ugly reaction color between the frit and the ivory. Try sticking with a black base until you get the hang of getting the color.
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Old 2008-08-03, 6:01pm
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Furnace glass frit (and rod) like "Raku" generally does not play well with ivory.

I don't have much luck with the frit so I use stringer, I super heat the glass until it's almost uncontrollable... then let it cool. I don't go for the cold marver or other things like that. I have found that the dark brown (coffee color) usually happens just before the color "pops"... so super heat it, let it cool, then heat it up again is usually my process. Once you get the color just "be done"... I have found that the more you mess with it after you get the color it starts "fade". Hope that helps.
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  #4  
Old 2008-08-03, 6:45pm
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Raku reacts differently with different glasses. When you use it on black you tend to get the colors that pop, but on white you tend to get pastel colors, on dark ivory, you will be lucky to see the colors unless you use a big size frit because it's going to make a black ring around each piece of frit, so it could just look black.

Turquoise never gets colors with raku. It mostly turns yellow brown.

Colors that it works really well with are the Kugler browns. They have changed the names of them from the ASK colors, but whatever is the silver browns - silver cinnamon, silver rattan, caramel apple - I get fabulous color with those glasses.

It also works well with some of the transparent brown colors and purples. The red roof tile does really great things too.
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Old 2008-08-03, 11:02pm
Tesorobeads Tesorobeads is offline
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I have used raku on lapis blue as well as black. I didn't like it on ivory either.

Debbie
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  #6  
Old 2008-08-04, 5:54am
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Super heat to a white glow then cool with brass or a marver (metal will cool more and faster) you'll get color. As mentioned above, use the darker colors for the base. If base is ivory, use light and only with stringer.
Kay
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Old 2008-08-04, 9:44am
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If you haven't read Dawn's tut, here it is:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...highlight=raku
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Old 2008-08-04, 9:51am
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your torch can make a difference too!

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Old 2008-08-04, 10:07am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnyone View Post
your torch can make a difference too!

crystal
Yes, if you are on a Hot Head, good luck.
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Old 2008-08-04, 12:51pm
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I've done it on a hothead: http://fc02.deviantart.com/fs15/f/20...by_ellyloo.jpg
Comes out a bit different, and it's tough not to reduce the raku (IE: propane) --if you see a metallic layer developing, take it further out in the flame.
Don't have the raku too thickly applied.
I think that the thinner the layer, the better, because the heat probably gets through much easier and more thorough. You can always make it thinner by raking through it, or making swirls, or gravity twirling it. if you have raku rod, make a twisty out of it.
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Last edited by ellyloo; 2008-08-04 at 12:55pm.
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Old 2008-08-04, 3:08pm
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Thanks for all the tips! I followed Dawn's thread but I still had trouble. I'm using a Nortel Minor torch btw.

Does anybody have tips on cooling it without brass or graphite (I have no brass tools so I just use graphite anyway)? Like if I wanted to make a round bead, marvering it would make it lose the round shape. I blow on it until the glow goes away to cool it, but apparently that isn't working too well.

My step-by-step (apparently flawed?):
1. Make bead with frit
2. Let it lose its glow and harden
3. super heat (white-orange) while trying not to let the core get warm (so I hold it close to the tip of torch but not touching the cones)
4. Blow on it until glow goes away (or marver or squish with mashers)
5. Flash in and out of the very back of the flame until dark red glow
6. Put in fiber blanket (I have no kiln yet)

Thanks for all your help thus far, I'll post more pictures of altered methods when I get more oxygen within the next few days. (And I'll say away from ivory lol)
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Old 2008-08-04, 8:31pm
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blowing does the trick with me..
Do an experiment. Make a big bead, raku it, melt SPOTS on it white hot at a few different spots, and then blow on them. (they should turn dark). Leave it at the one time with one spot...but with another spot, bring it to a dull glow once or two more times. (too many times, and it goes back to regular colour)

Put it away, and see what the outcome is.
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Old 2008-08-04, 10:08pm
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All I do with it is melt it in, let it cool and then heat the surface again. When you get dark brown that means you are close to getting color. The colors form from yellow to red to purple to blue to green.

You might have to let it cool and then flash the surface a few times, but when you get dark brown, let it cool then just hit the dark brown with the flame for a few seconds, take it out and look at it. If it's purple that's great.
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Old 2008-08-05, 5:56pm
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I tried again, calling upon all the tips you guys have left, and video-taped it so that I could watch what I was doing when i finished and so that maybe I could share it with you guys for a critique of my technique. The only problem is I used my video camera instead of my normal digital camera's video function, so my movie is mpeg2 without its codec (meaning you guys can't watch it unless you have Sony Handycam software) and program functions won't let me take stills out of it to show either Oh well

Anyway pictures of my almost-success:

The overexposed (lighter) half shows the deep blue I managed to achieve and the darker half shows what the camera sees with corrct exposure. The bead really looks black with blue dots (from the lighter pic). There's very little, if any, color variation. All the frit is dark blue. It's better than nothing.
For lack of video or stills, I tried to sketch out what I did (in one picture, I suck at drawing too bad to try more than one pic)

If you can't read my atrocious handwriting it says:
1) Melting frit in
2) Get hot (white-orange glow)
3. Blow on it until glow goes away (with side note saying 'wind swirl things lol' as I tried to show me blowing on the bead)
4) Bring to glow (orange) let cool in air to lose glow

I heated the whole bead evenly to a good orange glow, which is probably why I only got one blue. I'll try varying it when I replenish my oxygen tomorrow (hopefully, I had 100psi left today that I tried more raku with hence this post) Oh and the steps in the drawing are in a funky order because I drew the bead in the flame where I was doing that step. Melting in the frit happened where my flame is almost purple instead of blue (like where I slowly heat up rods and keep frit form frying)

Oh! and look at THIS

I'm proud! To bad I used my marver, I want to learn these colors without a marver for like round beads. I forget exactly what I did (no vid of this) but I drew a spiral with raku stringer around it. The colors are almost this vivid in real life. This pic is 2 sides of the same bead. I really wish I could remember how I did this and then do it to a round bead. Practice practice practice I guess.


Sorry for the really long posts, I find ti hard to express what I mean a lot of times (I'm a very visual person, hence videos and photos and drawings). Thanks for all your help! I can't wait to be able show some decent beads.

Oh by the way:
I tried what I did with the first bead in this post on others and kinda goe the same result. Then I tried using less heat to get different colors (like getting it back up to just a red glow instead of orange) because Kevan mentioned the order of the colors and I figured less heat would give me the yellow/red/purple colors. No such luck. And more heat didn't give me green, it gave me nasty yellows and browns and the original colors. I swear I'll get this down eventually!

And one more thing (last edit I promise)
I can get the frit to turn black/brown really easily (getting it hot then blowing on it) it's just getting it to turn colors after that that I can't do. Most of my test beads get stuck looking black and brown. Don't know if that is useful info or not but whatever.

Last edited by ailurophile; 2008-08-05 at 6:01pm.
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  #15  
Old 2008-08-05, 6:22pm
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Wowee, the cylinder colours are great!

The blue on the first is getting there too!
Did you encase the round one?
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Old 2008-08-06, 5:07pm
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Thanks! And no, I didn't encase the round bead.

Any more tips out there?
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Old 2008-08-06, 8:34pm
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Hey there Ailurophile,
I have spent a tonne of time messing with raku. it looks like your are getting it, but I'll try to give you some of my tips in a nutshell, perhaps there is something here that may help you too. Here is one of my raku sets:




Raku needs contrast to really shine so use black, intense black or silver plum to start practicing.
There also seems to be a window of opportunity to using it. one of the tips that I try to teach people is that if you play with it too much under too much heat, you will pass through the reaction stage and it will look dull brown, or ugly green. SO... a few tips that I hope may help:
1) use an oxygen rich flame at first . raku does reduce too, but it gets a different result, so I assume you are going for the pretty colors.

2)when you FIRST shape your bead, whether you use a stinger of raku (like I did with mine- twisty stringer with black) or raku frit, keep your bead in the cooler part of the flame after you apply the raku (the "sweetspot" of the flame, where you apply stringers and have the best control) try not to fully cool your bead too much, but also try not to get it too hot. this way your raku will melt in but not react too much yet. Shape your bead as much as you want at this point and get ready to press it, etc....

3) when you are pretty much done with your bead, drop it about 1 and a half inches to the base of the torch, in the really hot part of the flame and get the bead HOT. you might see a wierd film start to form- this means that you have gotten the raku to react and you are almost going to burn it- so take it out of the flame and blow on it, or press it with cold brass.

4) take your time, and let the bead really cool down, till you are worried it may crack (almost). remember you have more time than you think- the bead was just really hot- it takes a bit to get it that cold. the raku should now look an ugly black!

5) go back up into the sweet spot of the flame and pretend that you are "burning off the black" to reveal colors underneath. get the bead hot enough to remove the chill marks from it- this will be about perfect heat to start burning off the black.

6) take it out of the flame and blow on it to cool it again to the point that you think it might crack... see any color yet? if not do the same step again.
Rinse repeat till you get it

Remember raku goes from black -> purple -> blue -> yellow -> green -> red -> pink -> burnt grey. (pink and burnt grey will show up if you got it TOO hot before cooling it. green and brown mean you went through the reaction and ended up at the beginning again- if you do this it is tough to get it back to pretty.) you cant get purple again if you have already burnt through it, so if you are happy with some blue with green, pop it in the kiln and try not to burn through as much color next time.

A couple other tips: pastel white is a lousy color- it reacts badly with lots of things so if you are looking for a non reacting white stay away from it, unless you like the effect.

play with raku in a cold room. it is harder to get the color to pop on a hot day! Good luck and I hope something I said helps!
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Old 2008-08-07, 4:04pm
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Arg! I feel like an idiot, I just can NOT get raku to work! It probably won't matter by the time I actually get, though, because i won't get to play with raku when school starts on the 21st. Even if I get my lampwork independent study approved, I didn't factor in raku to the lesson plans. Bummer.

I LOVE those beads, slipstreme! I tried following your tips, but I think I'm still doing something wrong. Even if I manage to get any colors out of it they're almost always blue and VERY dark. I get the raku to turn black then when I try to get the colors out of it I just can't. I never get anywhere near pastel colors, just very dark midnight blues. Oh, I also have a problem reheating to coax out more color because I really have to leave the room to see my bead and it cools as I walk away and come back. I've not yet had a bead explode or anything, but I'm afraid to put it back in the flame after walking away.

I had my little sister videotape me making this (horribly lopsided) bead:

This is pretty close to what it actually looks like. The green/blue spots are REALLY dark and the other side is just black. My beads tend to end up lopsided after super heating, but thats probably just a basic shaping problem that I'm working on (still a torch newbie, only 7 months)

I hope a video can help show what I'm doing wrong. The file is .MOV which plays on QuickTime on my computer. The site I uploaded it to here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=C40ZYWCG
its a little confusing. You enter one of those security codes then wait 45 seconds then click Free Download and it downloads to your computer (or I think you can choose to just open it). I can also email you the 139MB file if you PM me your email (the "you" means anyone btw). I think the vid is something like 6 mins.
Edit:
OK, I had my mom try to access the video and is she can do it anyone can do it. I found I should be more specific, the page is REALLY confusing. When you click on the link there is a " Please Enter [3 letter security code] here:" in the top right corner region of the page. Ignore the animated ad (with annoying cursor that you'll probably think is your mouse moving on its own) that takes up the rest of the page. When you click Download button, a page comes up and at the bottom right area there will be a 45 second countdown and then a grey button saying "Free Download" will show up. Click on it and if you have Windows a little window will ask you to open or save. I usually choose to just open. My mom's computer uses Realplayer or something, mine uses Quicktime. It will take quite a few minutes to download, sorry. If you have any problems I can email you the file, provided your email provider can accept an attachment that is 139 MEGAbytes, not kilobytes. I apologize for using such a crappy webhost, but it's the only free one I could find that would upload a vid bigger than 100mb.

This is so frustrating lol! I look at all the pretty colors of raku beads around here and think "How the crap do I only get dark blue, if anything?" I hope I get ti eventually. All of you tips are really helping! At least it's more than just black now lol.


Oh, does anybody know of a tape or DVD that shows you how to strike raku? Or even an online video? I've searched to no avail and I'm really a visual learner. I'll get it eventually through words but there's nothing like seeing it done.

And, I don't know if I already said it, but I have no kiln so does that affect the process I need to do?

Last edited by ailurophile; 2008-08-07 at 4:32pm.
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  #19  
Old 2008-08-07, 7:43pm
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I say, when it's all dark, ENCASE. That's what I try. (and i have failures too)
Often the heat while you're encasing is just what it needs to strike up to a colour.
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Old 2008-08-07, 8:06pm
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Well, if you have to leave the room and you can't reheat it it's probably not going to work for you. That's really an essential part of striking colors in glass.

Raku does reduce to a metallic finish, but it is essentially a striking glass. The term "strike" in glass means to reheat to bring out the color.

When you first heat it, and you want it to be molten, it should cool to dark brown. Then you reheat it, but not as hot as before. You heat it so the outside gets red, but it stays the shape you want the bead to be.

I hear people say this "you can see it move across the surface" thing and I don't know what the heck they are talking about. lol YOu just heat it, let it cool and heat it again. If you are getting dark blue then you can heat the outside of the bead again and it should go to green, yellow maybe red.
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Old 2008-08-07, 8:27pm
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Quote:
Well, if you have to leave the room and you can't reheat it it's probably not going to work for you...
Agreed... you should really invest in some lighting... you're going to have a hard time with a lot of things until you can see what you're doing. It truly is amazing how much you realize what you've been missing once you can see.

I wouldn't be too discouraged with just getting blue, a lot of people would be really happy to get that
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Last edited by zen-mom; 2008-08-07 at 8:27pm. Reason: typo
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Old 2008-08-07, 8:28pm
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I've had the best luck with raku when I wasn't trying. When I've tried to get color out of it, I get baby poop. When I just go about my business of making the bead, it seems to take care of itself and I get fairly nice colors. So...maybe just relax and play without having a goal for a little bit?

When I've seen that "move across the surface" thing, it pretty much means I've gone too far and the colors start breaking apart and aren't pretty. Same deal if I do the "white hot transparent" thing. Super fug. It works for me best if I don't give it any special treatment or attention.
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Old 2008-08-07, 8:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zen-mom View Post
I wouldn't be too discouraged with just getting blue, a lot of people would be really happy to get that

I'd be happy with blue!!! I can usually only get tan and a little tiny bit of purple. When I was on my HH I could get raku to do its thing. On my Lynx I really struggle. Once in a while, when the moon is in the right position in the sky and I hold my breath while praying I'll get it to work, but not consistantly.
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Last edited by playswithfire104; 2008-08-08 at 5:31am.
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Old 2008-08-07, 9:29pm
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Kevan:
I get what you mean about not seeing the effect raku has when it gets hot. I saw what I thought was it once, but when it cooled it had a grey scum all over the surface so I don't even look for the 'move across the surface' thing anymore. I essentially make my bead and melt stuff in, then super heat, then cool (blow), then heat to red/dark orange to end up with the blue. I only leave the room to see if anything actually happened and when I return it's too cold to put back in the flame to try for more colors, hence only blues in my raku.
My dad is supposed to be getting me a range hood with a light over my work area, but until then I may steal a work light from the wood shop in the next room (where I go to see my beads lol). Like zen-mom said, I'm probably missing a lot from lack of lighting.

I'm kinda happy to be getting blue, it means I'm actually accomplishing something. But the problem with thsi blue is it can't be seen unless you know it's there because it's so dark. It may seem like crappy black if you didn't know I used raku.

earthandsky:
I like the idea of not worrying about it and just playing around, I'll try it. I wonder if making a sculptural rose with raku on the petals would have enough heating/cooling/heating to strike it without trying? (too bad the rose won't last even if it works, but it's worth a try)

Thanks for the tips! I'll update with pictures when I get to my torch (maybe they'll actually be worht looking at next time around!)
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Old 2008-08-08, 11:29am
slipstreme slipstreme is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ailurophile View Post
Kevan:
when it cooled it had a grey scum all over the surface
Ahah! this means that you burnt the raku- so you superheated it a bit too much!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ailurophile View Post

I essentially make my bead and melt stuff in, then super heat, then cool (blow), then heat to red/dark orange to end up with the blue.

I'm kinda happy to be getting blue, it means I'm actually accomplishing something. But the problem with thsi blue is it can't be seen unless you know it's there because it's so dark. It may seem like crappy black if you didn't know I used raku.
You are completely on the right track! you have it ALMOST figured out- but you have to reheat it again to burn off the blue/ purple (remember- just enough to remove chill marks) and then recool it till it is cold again. you have to do this step a number of times till you get the pastel colors that you really like. don't be afraid of cracking your bead- if you do crack it, then you know that it doesn't need to be QUITE that cold- so the next time don't cool it down quite as much. but you can't be afraid of reheating it again- it is really the only way to get the lighter colors. trust us
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  #26  
Old 2008-08-08, 11:35am
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Kevan Kevan is offline
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You should be able to put it back in the flame if you do it slowly. Hold it out at the very end of the flame and roll it around a lot and gradually get closer.

But you really are going to have to be able to see the color develop. Blue means you can go further and get the greens, yellows and red. Just keep going, heat the surface again.

The only person I know who gets raku to do what she wants every time is Dawn. Her sets have every bead looking the same. Of course, maybe she's made 3 times as many beads as she puts in the photo. lol
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  #27  
Old 2008-08-08, 12:43pm
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  #28  
Old 2008-08-08, 7:37pm
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I have learned lots from this thread- Kevan again great advise. Now one question for you raku nerds-hehehe I want to leave a raised design is this possible or does the affect generally have to be melted to see it?
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  #29  
Old 2008-08-08, 9:32pm
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OOooo ooooo I can answer that!! You can leave it raised and still get colors. Actually, this type of bead looks really cool if you etch the base color and leave the raised raku shiny.
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Old 2008-08-09, 4:48pm
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All right, I gave it another go last night and I got some better results! I actually started getting pastel colors. I wasn't getting it hot enough the second time (after superheating and blowing), but I'm getting better now. Pictures:


This were obviously done with stringers (which I actually decently applied, yay!) I used a marver to help shape and cool the second one, the other I didn't use any tools. I got some pretty good color, at least it doesn't look black. I had left the cylindrical bead with raised stringer, but melted it in after I cooled it. I can't get the edges of my stringer decorations to strike though, and tips on how to fix that?


Weird, don't know what happened to this one. I got bands of color with a decent green and dark blue in the middle, but fried brown ends. Oh well.


This bead has one spot of pastel colors that I tried to photograph. You can see ons greens, blues, and purples. The edged of the frit blobs, though look brown. And the backside has all baby-poo orangish-brown frit, maybe I fried it? The frit was black before I tried to strike the colors into it, and then a lot of it went brown so I guess I burn it. I got it hot enough to try to reshape the lopsisdedness, probably too hot. This is on Vetrofond Pajama Blue Odd, btw (I got a freee 1/4 pound of it, so I'm trying to use it for something. It's really not that great of a color)


OMG YAY! I love how this flower turned out! My clear is scummy, the background clashes, and the other 2 flowers didn't strike (are a baby-poo brown) but this flower got some really pretty pinks and purples. I don't remember it actually striking before I encased it, but it turned out pretty good. I'm really awful at encasing (used end-to-end on this) and it's lopsided as hell, but the flower is good.


xD This went all kinds of wrong, obviously. I was attempting another floral bead with raku. I made a light lapis base encased with clear, drew with vine stringer (grass green/black) encased again, then made the flowers and encased again (this time winding it around). The encasing was lumpy and awful and I accidentally overheated the bead trying to smooth the encasing. When it overheated I tried to keep it from dripping by spinning it faster, causing the bead to spin into a disk and warp everything. But look at the flowers!! The picture really sucks (sorry) but the petals all look like a spider web/ cosmic storm of pinks, purples, blues, and greens. Theres like webs of colors, it looks so cool. I just wish the whole bead didn't look like crap (though my dad says he wants to put it on his desk at work o.O weirdo)

I'm getting there, but i can't really get the edged of anything to strike. Like the edges of pieced of frit and the edges of stringer (though I melt it in fully before superheating and cooling). Also, frit near the holes tends to not turn black but a brown and yellow and then it doesn't strike. I'm probably going to go try some more at the torch right now.
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