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2010-12-10, 11:35am
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
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I had to use the search function to find the mandrels on their website, Carol! lol! How could a company revamp its website only to make it worse than before!
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That's probably why I only purchase mandrels from them . . . can't find anything else easily!
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Hayley
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2010-12-10, 3:03pm
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rainbowchasingtimewaster
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About the Sundance mandrels....
I love the 5/64 ones but I bought the bulk pack of the 1/16 mandrels and about half of them were bowed/bent to the point of unusable.
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2010-12-10, 5:16pm
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Senior Member
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oh, bowed
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About the Sundance mandrels....
I love the 5/64 ones but I bought the bulk pack of the 1/16 mandrels and about half of them were bowed/bent to the point of unusable.
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Thanks for the heads up about that because that is the size I was going to get.
My DH bought some welding rods 316L I think it is. They were the best so far but I am so hard on mandrels.
For cleaning beads, I have one bent real good, it looks like an L so I use that every day to clean beads and don't ruin any mandrels that way any more.
A good 1/16" unbendable mandrel, who can find, lol? I've been thinking of hammering them and see if that helps straighten and harden them?
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2010-12-10, 8:42pm
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As to the short shipment I assume that you paid via credit card. I would contest the charge with the CC company. There is no excuse for bad businesses practices. It wouldn't be tolerated in another industry.
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Phyllis
Lynx, Midrange, Scorpion Regalia Oxycon
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2010-12-11, 5:35am
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For anyone using the mandrels from Glasscraft, I have a question. Can you get your beads off the mandrel as usual? I have been having at least 1/2 of all my beads stuck and this started when I got my first set of these mandrels. I have no idea if this is possible but I've even bought new release. 2 bottles and still can't get them off. I've never had to hammer so many beads.
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2010-12-11, 8:00am
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I'm kinda biz-EE
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For anyone using the mandrels from Glasscraft, I have a question. Can you get your beads off the mandrel as usual? I have been having at least 1/2 of all my beads stuck and this started when I got my first set of these mandrels. I have no idea if this is possible but I've even bought new release. 2 bottles and still can't get them off. I've never had to hammer so many beads.
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Some of mine are still soaking in ginger ale Rose, I can't them off either. To view links or images in this forum your post count must be 1 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. Because this is a different metal than we're used to maybe there is some expansion going on in the kiln, that would explain the difficulty. I think I'll freeze mine and see what happens.
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2010-12-11, 10:44am
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da General
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2006
Location: San Francisco
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Quote:
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About the Sundance mandrels....
I love the 5/64 ones but I bought the bulk pack of the 1/16 mandrels and about half of them were bowed/bent to the point of unusable.
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That's not right. Have you contacted them about this, Lori? We don't use 1/16" so I never ordered those. Love the 5/64" - much better alternative to the 1/16", imho.
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Hayley
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2010-12-11, 10:47am
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http://youtu.be/nGt9jAkWi
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
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WOW, I can't believe the mandrel nightmare you all are having. That's horrible!!!!
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Vivian
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2010-12-11, 3:25pm
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one day at a time
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I ordered from Glasscraft years ago and was always very satisfied with their service and the friendly staff. However sometimes things are going to need improvement here and there in any business. So it's more than likely Dave will get plenty of feedback from this thread and fix those problems.
Emkay, you're sure to get it worked out now and Glasscraft may become a better vendor because of this thread.
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2010-12-12, 6:55am
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Astrid, you should see the pile of beads on my sink that need to be hammered. It's makes me madder by the minute because it's taken me months to figure what's going on here. Not to mention the cost of shipping for bead release.
I've decided I need to throw out every mandrel I have in the 3/32 and 1/16 because I don't know what's what. Some mandrels I've had for 8 years and they're still going strong. dammit
I'm just venting, lol.
Anyways, I just ordered 2 lbs. of 3/32 from Sundance. I have rod here to cut my own 1/16. I should be set and free of aggravation soon.
I need to call Glasscraft on Monday. I don't think they are an awful place at all but they need to have this brought to their attention.
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2010-12-12, 8:12am
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Angie09
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Something in the steel industry for these rods has changed. I get my mandrels from Auralens and up until a few months ago they were terrific!!! The I got a batch of bent ones ... Mike made it right and sent me a whole new batch but these are not nearly as "sturdy" as the ones he has had in the past. I brought this to his attention and he is aware of the problem but because he doesn't make the steel rods he's sort of at the mercy of his distributor. Perhaps Sundance and Auralens use the same distributor for their mandrels ... sure sounds like similar problems.
I know some LErs have had issues with Mike at Auralens but I have found him very easy to work with and willing to back up his products. And, he cuts the mandrels to 4.5" for those of us with mandrels spinners ... twice the amount of mandrels for a great price!
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2010-12-12, 8:32am
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I'm kinda biz-EE
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Join Date: Aug 08, 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
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Rose, mine are all separate and these Glasscraft mandrels are a different color (at least for me) when I hold them up in the sunlight and compare them to the ones from Arrow Springs, Frantz, etc. They're a sort of browny-purple color after cooking in the kiln. After my own experience and reading your post as well I pulled them all out last night and chunked them, who needs the aggravation?
Maybe try comparing the colors on yours before you chunk everything and see if there's a difference? The strange mandrels are darker.
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Astrid
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2010-12-12, 10:14am
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Senior Member
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Well, I trashed a bunch of them. I heard banging and pounding downstairs this morning and hubby came up and said he got one bead off, lol. He saw them in the trash and decided he would try to save the beads. He said many of the mandrels just bent. I told him YEP, that means those are the "ones". The good news is that my 1/16 mandrels weren't from Glasscraft. So I don't have to toss those. I've been using them for months now so that purplish color is long gone. It's now rust from sitting in the water so long.
I also tossed a new package I hadn't opened yet. What a mess. Hopefully these posts will helps others.
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2010-12-12, 11:08am
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PyronamixK
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Location: Spatula City
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Just a thought... If the alloy is different, then perhaps it is expanding and cracking the release more so than normal mandrels, exposing the metal and allowing glass to stick to the metal while the bead is being made.
Has anyone tried rubbing them with steel wool? Sometimes, that roughs up the mandrels and allows release to stick to it better, thereby keeping it where it needs to be.
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Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
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2010-12-12, 11:16am
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Naysayer
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Join Date: Sep 22, 2009
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so stumped and interested in these mandrels..i've never heard of 'chalky look' or turning colors? (well i know they do where the flame hits sometimes, but as in normal, these sound not) are these stainless?
for those that do not know, maybe try a rivet tool to remove them?
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a cheap 'worth a shot' anyways.
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2010-12-12, 12:32pm
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Kimberly,
I sanded the ends of each mandrel before using them the first time. Many times I've ground the ends 1 in. or so just to get the bead off. If I Could get it to even move I had to grind down the mandrel, if that makes sense. Very weird.
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2010-12-12, 12:41pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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If you have beads stuck that hard, drill a hole in a piece of wood just big enough for the long end of the mandrel to slide though. Rest the bead on the wood and tap the short end of the mandrel with a hammer - that will loosen it. Either that or use a rivet tool for them.
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2010-12-12, 12:42pm
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Powers Art Studio
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Not sure if this helps, but we always go to a local welding shop for our mandrels. We get them at a great price and just cut them ourselves. We used to order them online (can't remember from who) and they always seemed sort of bendy. The ones we get from the welding shop are awesome
Andrea
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Jessica
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2010-12-12, 12:49pm
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PyronamixK
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I wasn't talking about the ends. I was talking about the shaft of the mandrel. If the steel is coated or if the release is quick to flake off, it sometimes helps to rough up the shaft of the madrels with some steel wool to remove any residual coating and to make the release stay put. If the mandrel has some tooth, the release has something to hold on to. If the release moves or cracks while making a bead, it will expose the metal and the glass can stick.
Now, if your bead can spin, but just can't be slipped off the end of the mandrel, that's something else. I like to have my ends ground to a little blunt point to minimize that.
I am just wondering if these mandrels are made of a different grade of steel and are expanding more than they should and if that expansion is cracking the release while the bead is being made. A different grade steel can also explain easier bending, which would make slipping the bead off the end difficult or impossible.
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Kimberly
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2010-12-12, 1:35pm
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I'm guessing it's a different grade of steel.
When I 1st got the mandrels I had to wash them in grease cleaner. Then I sanded the shaft of the mandrel about 2 in. up on each end all the way to the point to give the release some tooth.
8 years of doing this and never have had this problem. I did cut my own 1/16 this morning from welding rod I already had. I agree that is the way to go. I just need to find a supplier around here. For now I have 84 mandrels on their way from Sundance so I should be good for years.
The rods and stuck beads are gone, history. I'm turning a new leaf now.
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2010-12-12, 1:53pm
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one day at a time
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Now, if your bead can spin, but just can't be slipped off the end of the mandrel, that's something else. I like to have my ends ground to a little blunt point to minimize that.
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I've posted about this before and I'll post it again. If beads can spin but don't want to slip off the mandrel, try slipping them off the other end. If the bead will spin and slide back and forth some but won't come off, then this can be because of only two reasons - a bent mandrel OR:
The mandrel is worn down in the area where you are winding the glass on. Period.
Why does this happen?? Stainless steel can and will rust. Rust eats away at the diameter of the mandrel and one of the main places a mandrel will rust is where the bead is wound onto it. The constant heat stresses the steel and will break it down so it will rust on occasion, even it left to dry in open air. I've dried them off with a cloth and went back to them later and they still had little signs of rusting.
Why are the beads stuck because of this?? The worn down narrowed diameter of the mandrel makes the bead's hole smaller than the diameter of the rest of the mandrel, and this is why you can't slip them off. If the bead won't go back the other way and slip off the other end, then it's definitely why.
Cleaning the rust off with fine steel wool is nice but it doesn't stop the wearing down of the metal. Best solution for when your beads are getting stuck on the mandrel because they slide a little but won't come off - get new mandrels. Second best solution is to cut off 1/4-1/2" from each end, and regrind the ends. You will then have a new place on the mandrel on either end to wind glass on.
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2010-12-12, 3:29pm
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I'm kinda biz-EE
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Join Date: Aug 08, 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
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Quote:
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I'm guessing it's a different grade of steel.
When I 1st got the mandrels I had to wash them in grease cleaner. Then I sanded the shaft of the mandrel about 2 in. up on each end all the way to the point to give the release some tooth.
8 years of doing this and never have had this problem. I did cut my own 1/16 this morning from welding rod I already had. I agree that is the way to go. I just need to find a supplier around here. For now I have 84 mandrels on their way from Sundance so I should be good for years.
The rods and stuck beads are gone, history. I'm turning a new leaf now.
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That would be my guess too. Just like there are different grades and quality of plywood I'm sure the same applies to welding rod.
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2010-12-12, 5:20pm
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Senior Member
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Lisi,
I will send you some mandrels that I still have, for you to try what you said. In all sincerity, let's see what you think. Send me a pm with your address and I will send you the pack I never unwrapped. Hurry, as they are in the trash and the trash guys come Thursday. I'd be more than happy to get a second opinion.
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2010-12-12, 5:20pm
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Cat Winx
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Astrid.. having been a welder/fabricator for nearly 15 years now I can say with confidence that you are absolutely correct; as a matter of fact, the number of different alloys available would blow your mind!
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~Rachel
P.S. I have embarked on a search to solve the problem of the bendy mandrels with the help of a former boss, mentor and friend of mine who knows his alloys as well as the help of my favorite local weld shop (what can I say, they know me and they like me).
A few friends are testing out 1/16" mandrels for me to find some that will hold up better (I am certain that here, in the land of Boeing, that alloy can be found) although chances are good it's going to cost more than any of your basic stainless alloys. The question is, will they be enough stronger to make it worthwhile? I'd be interested in opinions re: stronger 1/16" mandrels and how much more they would be worth because there's a ten lb. minimum for metals they don't normally carry..
If peeps prefer to pay less and toss the mandrels when they bend then there's no way a superior mandrel can compete even if it holds up for years. Thoughts?
P.P.S. I rough up my mandrels with a Scotch Brite.. takes off less material, lasts longer and (IMO) is much more effective.. not nearly as messy either!
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2010-12-12, 5:47pm
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I'm kinda biz-EE
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Join Date: Aug 08, 2007
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Quote:
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Astrid.. having been a welder/fabricator for nearly 15 years now I can say with confidence that you are absolutely correct; as a matter of fact, the number of different alloys available would blow your mind!
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~Rachel
P.S. I have embarked on a search to solve the problem of the bendy mandrels with the help of a former boss, mentor and friend of mine who knows his alloys as well as the help of my favorite local weld shop (what can I say, they know me and they like me).
A few friends are testing out 1/16" mandrels for me to find some that will hold up better (I am certain that here, in the land of Boeing, that alloy can be found) although chances are good it's going to cost more than any of your basic stainless alloys. The question is, will they be enough stronger to make it worthwhile? I'd be interested in opinions re: stronger 1/16" mandrels and how much more they would be worth because there's a ten lb. minimum for metals they don't normally carry..
If peeps prefer to pay less and toss the mandrels when they bend then there's no way a superior mandrel can compete even if it holds up for years. Thoughts?
P.P.S. I rough up my mandrels with a Scotch Brite.. takes off less material, lasts longer and (IMO) is much more effective.. not nearly as messy either!
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Rachel, speaking only for myself I would be more than willing to pay more for mandrels that would last longer. I had to move up to the 3/32 because it was driving me crazy having to constantly order new mandrels. I really really love 1/16, it's so much better for stringing/wirework than 3/32 holes.
Thank you for exploring this, it would be wonderful to have 1/16 (and 3/32 for that matter) mandrels made out of the strongest steel available IMHO. That way, you buy a gob of good mandrels, pay shipping once, and in the long run come out cheaper because you don't have to replace them as often.
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2010-12-12, 6:34pm
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rainbowchasingtimewaster
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I took a picture to kind of illustrate the difference in stainless steel quality or grade - the big diameter (3/16) mandrel is the one I bought from glasscraft. The smaller diameter mandrels were ones I know to be 316L.
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You can see that the 316L mandrels shine so much finer than whatever the glasscraft mandrel is made of. The glasscraft mandrel is chalky feeling, not smooth, even after giving it a rubbing with steel wool.
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2010-12-12, 6:51pm
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Cat Winx
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Quote:
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I took a picture to kind of illustrate the difference in stainless steel quality or grade - the big diameter (3/16) mandrel is the one I bought from glasscraft. The smaller diameter mandrels were ones I know to be 316L.
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You can see that the 316L mandrels shine so much finer than whatever the glasscraft mandrel is made of. The glasscraft mandrel is chalky feeling, not smooth, even after giving it a rubbing with steel wool.
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I cannot be 100% certain Lori.. but the large mandrel in that picture looks like Carbon Steel to me (as does your description of the way it feels in the hand).. not stainless..
Carbon steel is softer and also rusts much more easily. It's also a lot cheaper which would explain why they could offer them for so much less.
~Rachel
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2010-12-12, 8:44pm
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I'm kinda biz-EE
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Thanks for taking the picture Lori! That's exactly the way mine looked when they came out of the package.
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2010-12-12, 9:34pm
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Formerly FishBulb
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Join Date: Dec 05, 2008
Location: Pony Flower Princess Land
Posts: 2,772
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I've got to thank you folks for this thread and the information contained herein. I have never had mandrel issues and would certainly hate to start! I'm sorry you're all having to deal with this and I'm grateful to know this before I place an order I regret.
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In Soviet Russia, Google searches you.
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2010-12-14, 3:51pm
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PYROMANIAC, artist
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Join Date: Jun 06, 2006
Location: Arvada, CO
Posts: 2
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I bought my first torch setup in 1993 from a very patient Glasscraft employee. I've been a regular customer at the Golden location (and pretty much every other glass company out there) ever since. In July, 2008 I was hired by Glasscraft as a customer service representative. Many changes have been made since that time and our new website (
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) launched about 3 months ago. Since its beginning in 1970, Glasscraft has been a LAMPWORKING glass and supply company. We do not carry stained glass, fusing or furnace working supplies.
Now that we have 2 locations, we are able to split orders to insure that the customer is able to receive ALL the items he/she has ordered. This is usually especially advantageous for the customer when ordering items that are on sale. The website explains the shipping policies we have set up in a very concise way and the customer always has the option of NOT having an order split.
My main reason for responding to this thread, however, is the mandrel issue. Our mandrels are the same stainless steel they have always been. They feel "sticky" because they have a coating when we receive them. It is a lubricant/waxy substance that is necessary in straightening the steel from its curved shape from a huge spool. The coating should be washed off with HOT, soapy water, acetone or mineral spirits. Bead release will stick better for the first use if they are pre-heated in the kiln or scrubbed with steel wool prior to dipping for the first time. I have been using these mandrels as well as others from my local welding supply company and find them to work exactly the same. 1/16 mandrels have always softened quickly within a few uses and have to be replaced more often than the "heftier" diameters.
Thanks to all who have posted here with an open mind and encouragement for a fair outcome. I'm sure clear heads will prevail and we can all get back to "happily melting".
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