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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2011-05-07, 12:16am
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Old Time Bead Maker
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Join Date: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Shelton, Washington
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irjc
Hi All,
I'm having some issues with this br. it pools in the middle of my mandrelsbut drips down, too. I figured it too thick so I thinned it and now if I pull my mandrel out real slow it has a nice coating, but if I pull the mandrel out quick(which I thought was how you get a thicker coating?) it it waaayy too thin and just drips itself to nothing. before thinning, slow dip pooled in the middle causing lump, quick dip dripped down and poooled but left the top of the mandrel almost bare.
thanks for the help in advance
namaste
Rowyn
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Hi Rowyn,
In all my testing and now using the new release, I have not encountered your issue. With this new release, I have tested a fast dip and a slow dip with consistent results. In my mind, it might seem like the faster dip leaves a little thicker coating but....it's hard to tell for sure since the difference is minute. I don't shake off any excess but I do let it hang upside down for just a few seconds before turning it upright. It seems to "settle" as I call it and I don't get a drip or a bare end either one.
Have you shaken it really well...REALLY well? When did you get your bottle and from where? It shouldn't matter since the batches always seem consistent. What part of the country are you in? I know it's been tested throughout the country but I don't know for sure where.....
My first reaction would be to take the lid off and let it sit overnight, somewhere dry and see if that helps. Recap and shake well again.
Tim with Universal Bead Release will probably check in here sometime over the weekend and he might have more info for you. What's the code number on the bottom of your bottle? Have that ready for Tim.
That's my two cents for the moment. Let me know if you get any better results.
Sincerely,
Sue
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2011-05-07, 7:26am
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Triumphantly Knit!
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Join Date: Dec 30, 2010
Location: Ninth Level Lightbody
Posts: 1,332
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Thank you Sue. I'm in NJ. I have used it on some humid days that we've had but it's dry now and last night was my latest experience. After thinning it a bit I did not get any naked tips.
I thought that fast dip and pull meant thicker therein lies my confusion.
lot # on bottom is 103 and I just got it from Frantz within the past week -2 weeks.
I shook it as well as I've shaken other new br, I've let it sit upside down. I did not encounter any 'sludge' when poking around in it so it seems to be mixed.
I do like the hold of this release, alot. I haven't cleaned the beads, yet. I put a bunch that sit in water until I feel phsyically up to cleaning them. Cleaning the beads is the hardest on my body, it irritates the muscle in my back/neck that renders me in extreme pain and discomfort so I try to do it all at once. that way I'm only irritating once a week rather than every day.
I just don't want to be wasting it by applying too thick and I don't want the lump in the middle of my mandrel, although I may have some interesting bead holes. of course, always one to see what happens, I used those lumpy mandrels. maybe the boc kids will like them.
thanks again.
Namaste
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2011-05-07, 8:57pm
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SCIENCE Teacher!
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Join Date: Jul 19, 2005
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 2,140
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You might try soaking the beads in cheap white vinegar. It will break down most bead releases and may make them easier to clean out? I don't recommend soaking the mandrels as it will speed up corrosion of the stainless steel.
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Yes, I am FosterFire Bead Release.
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2011-05-07, 9:07pm
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And silence is golden
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2005
Location: The Shrimp Shack
Posts: 3,230
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Gail,
Thank you for sharing this information. I have been ready to pull my hair out lately over the variety of bead releases that I have purchased and been given in exchanges. I cannot go beyond normal, simple bead making without the BR cracking and the beads go spinning. Almost every pressed bead has flecks of BR in the glass, and that's no exaggeration. I look forward to being able to purchase some of this miracle bead release!!!!!
Aleta
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2011-05-08, 11:14am
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SCIENCE Teacher!
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Join Date: Jul 19, 2005
Location: Wylie, TX
Posts: 2,140
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Many times if you get a fleck of bead release on a bead you can flick it off. Just be sure not to heat it - so flick quick, then reheat your bead.
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Yes, I am FosterFire Bead Release.
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2011-05-08, 10:30pm
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Old Time Bead Maker
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Join Date: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Shelton, Washington
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irjc
Thank you Sue. I'm in NJ. I have used it on some humid days that we've had but it's dry now and last night was my latest experience. After thinning it a bit I did not get any naked tips.
I thought that fast dip and pull meant thicker therein lies my confusion.
lot # on bottom is 103 and I just got it from Frantz within the past week -2 weeks.
I shook it as well as I've shaken other new br, I've let it sit upside down. I did not encounter any 'sludge' when poking around in it so it seems to be mixed.
I do like the hold of this release, alot. I haven't cleaned the beads, yet. I put a bunch that sit in water until I feel phsyically up to cleaning them. Cleaning the beads is the hardest on my body, it irritates the muscle in my back/neck that renders me in extreme pain and discomfort so I try to do it all at once. that way I'm only irritating once a week rather than every day.
I just don't want to be wasting it by applying too thick and I don't want the lump in the middle of my mandrel, although I may have some interesting bead holes. of course, always one to see what happens, I used those lumpy mandrels. maybe the boc kids will like them.
thanks again.
Namaste
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Hi again,
Well...the code date on yours is the same as the one I'm currently using. Since I've never been to New Jersey, I don't have a clue what your weather is or how it would react way back there... I know here in Washington, it's been cold and wet and I've had mandrels dipped since last December that I'm still using. They've been through several freezes now too, both the dipped mandrels and the bottle of release itself and so far, so good. When I first started testing, I dipped a ton of mandrels to use as "controls" for further testing so in case anyone wanted to know why I'm using old, dipped mandrels, that is why...
I do store my bottle upside down which may or may not help with the release drying out but....I don't think that is your problem. I honestly don't know what it is...;(
Now...I did do some experimenting today with dipping mandrels. We had a bunch of people over who are NOT beadmakers and I had them all dip mandrels for me. I told them to dip fast and slow and the range of their dipping styles was so different than mine... I guess the same would hold true for me telling you here to dip slow or fast... One person dropped the mandrel in and 3 minutes later, he was still pulling it out of the bottle...
Tim was out of touch for the weekend but I just emailed him with a copy of this thread. Let's see what he has to say.
I have to sympathize with you on the back muscle and the chore of cleaning beads....I have that same problem. For me, I crack the release off each end of the bead before I place them in a jar of hot, soapy water. I let them sit about 10 minutes then, using the hottest water I can stand on my hands, I take a piece of waffle weave (shelf liner) stuff in one hand and my pliers in the other. I twist with the waffle cloth and poof....off it comes... I swear it's the hot water that does it... I've done the same thing using cold water and it doesn't work nearly as well... What do I know... I just do what works for me...
Well...good luck and happy glassing and we'll see what Tim as to add.
Bye for now,
Sue
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2011-05-09, 10:02am
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Old Time Bead Maker
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Join Date: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Shelton, Washington
Posts: 112
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Hi everyone...
I sent a message to Tim regarding the release and questions some have brought to light here on LE. He sent me the following to post.....
"Sue, thank you for giving me a heads up on the post concerning the
thickness of Universal Bead Release. Maybe you could post this
response for me? I promise I will start an LE profile so I can post
for myself in the next day or so... Thanks.
I guess this is where the fun begins as people start to report how it
performs in their specific environment. I'm afraid that I don't have a
real answer for Rowyn other than it sounds like she is doing
everything right. What I mean is that she is experimenting with the
consistency of the release and different dipping techniques to try and
figure how she can get this release to perform the best for her
environment. Going on the forum to share what she has learned and
getting advise from others that have used the product is the best we
can do right now, and very helpful for everyone. I do plan to keep
close track of the information received and post it on the Planet
Glass Products website as a resource for everyone to use.
What I can say is that this release was tested by a diverse network of
experienced bead makers spread out across the country. With the
information we received back, we were able to refine a mix that we
believe to be high performance and well balanced... It should work
great for ALMOST everyone ALMOST everywhere (hence, Universal). Just
like other facets of flameworking, some experimentation may be
required to achieve desired results. The thickness of Universal Bead
Release is one of our biggest concerns because everybody seems to have
a different opinion in regards to what is ideal (and what's ideal in
Arizona is not ideal in Washington, which is not ideal in Hawaii,
etc). Luckily, we are able to add water or leave the lid off to
eventually achieve the perfect consistency for our area. For most, it
should be good to go right off the shelf. Also, we mix very small
batches one at a time and put the batch code on the bottom of every
bottle. This will help us identify which batch we are communicating
about, and maybe learn more about how environment impacts performance.
The good news is that we have refined the process for getting precise
and consistent mixes every time, so don't worry about your next bottle
being completely different (or not available). Our mission is Quality,
Consistency, and Availability. We are well aware of the concerns and
needs of bead makers and believe we have what it takes to support and
represent this wonderful sub culture I love so much... Of course
actions speak louder that words, and only time will tell. I know that
this bead release is special because we put so much thought and hard
work to make it that way. We are pleased with the response and support
it has received so far, and are looking forward to the future.
If anybody has any questions, concerns, or feedback you can always
contact me at www.PlanetGlassProducts.com. If you're wondering who the
heck I am, you can visit my personal website at
www.OaklandBayAlchemy.com.
Thanks everybody, for your help and support.
Tim Keyzers."
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2011-05-12, 6:51am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 09, 2010
Location: Lowell Michigan
Posts: 144
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I have to say I love this stuff. I tried all of my release breaker type beads last night and it held firm! NO SPINNERS !!
The only thing is, it REALLY doesn't like to be dried too fast. My kiln has a rack on the top for drying release. The front gets hotter than the back. The front mandrels had cracks. I'd suggest dipping at the end of the day to get ready for the next day.
I think I'll use the front of my rack for warming my shocky rods..... )
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2011-05-12, 6:57am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 09, 2010
Location: Lowell Michigan
Posts: 144
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OMG Tim..... Your work is simply amazing. I just visited your site, I'm in awe.
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2011-05-12, 10:30am
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Triumphantly Knit!
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Join Date: Dec 30, 2010
Location: Ninth Level Lightbody
Posts: 1,332
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I'm calling this br Universal Turtle! if I dip realllllll sllooowwwww, it's good. When I do get the run drip belly in the middle of the dipped part of the mandrel, I get cracks. I'm noticing some cracks on mandrels dipped last night. I'm going to thin it again, thinking cracks mean too thick?
I'm looking for a film cannister around here or something I can just mix a bit with to play with til I figure out a good consistancy or however ya spell that.
As far as removing beads, where it is thin it tends to really bake on to the mandrel even after soaking, but came off with some rubbing. the beads come off either really easily or with the lockjaw pliers they come right off.
It seems to really hold up in the flame, even when dried with cracks, honestly, I could still make a bead, I just got a funky hole. it was worth trying.
thanks Tim for your input and you do make great glass. I like the 'Universal Turtle' and will keep trying.
namaste
Rowyn
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2011-05-12, 12:32pm
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visit my etsy!
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Join Date: Mar 04, 2009
Location: Rutland, UK
Posts: 150
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I don't suppose anyone would be willing to sell me some...?
I would normally have put an order in with Frantz, but I have all the glass I want at the moment, (well, not really but the sun roof on my car just broke and I suppose I'll have to pay for that blah blah blah!) and postage for just a bottle of bead release would be a bit daft!
I'm in the UK - I just realised I should have mentioned that!
Kirsty
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2011-05-12, 3:33pm
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Tim Keyzers
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Join Date: May 12, 2011
Posts: 10
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Hey guys.... This is my first post on LE! (Although I visit the forum all the time.)
Now I can communicate with you directly. Thank you for the kind words in regards to my work... Makes me feel good.
Thank you for working with me on this new product...
Tim Keyzers.
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2011-05-12, 8:59pm
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Old Time Bead Maker
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Join Date: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Shelton, Washington
Posts: 112
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Hiya Tim and welcome...
It's about time you got on here...
Ok people....the master himself is in the house now so....take it away Tim...
Bye for now everyone.....
Sue
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2011-05-13, 1:32pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 03, 2008
Location: Denmark
Posts: 176
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Will this ever be sold in Europe? It is waaayy.. to expensive, with taxes and all, to buy stuff like this from America.
Please, pretty please; ´cus this sounds like something I would love to try.
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Lone Ringskaer, Aarhus, Denmark
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2011-05-15, 5:43am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Nov 19, 2007
Posts: 1,078
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I bought a bottle yesterday and used it within an hour or so of dipping last night (in a humid environment, in the rain! - worst possible unrecommended conditions).
I need to first say that EVERY SINGLE BEAD RELEASE I HAVE EVER MET encounters major cracking, flaking and breaking issues the very second I touch it.
THIS BEAD RELEASE ROCKS! I put it through the regular paces and I was stunned that not even dust came off as a result of manipulating the glass via superheating, pressing, poking, raking, swirling, overheating and starting all over again, running the graphite tool accidentally along the mandrel etc. etc. etc. Only one of the beads I made in this session showed any sign of trouble and that's because I flame dried it even though the bottle clearly said not to in a humid environment.
Provided this upholds like this from now and into the future, I have found my new bead release! Thank you, Universe
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2011-05-15, 7:57am
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Against the Grain
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Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: The Villages, FL
Posts: 1,398
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I think you may have just convinced me to try this one Cheryl. I've had problems with every single bead release I have ever met too. I guess I'll have to try one more.
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Lynn
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2011-05-15, 8:43am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 636
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I am not having much luck with this product. It is flaking as I heat the mandrel, not sure if I thinned it too much. I am going to let it thicken up a bit and try again.
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2011-05-15, 5:42pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 01, 2008
Location: North Central Arkansas
Posts: 578
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I like the new release fairly well. It is a little thin as it does drip down the mandrel after dipping. However it only drips a couple of inches and then quits. It does not drip enough to affect the top portion of the mandrel where the bead will go.
My only real complaint is that it causes bubbles in the glass. I heat the snot out of the release before applying the glass. (I air dry the mandrels, by the way.) I still get too many air bubbles after winding on the glass. BOM also did me this way. I never had this problem with fusion. I spend a lot of time heating the glass to get the bubbles out. Kind of a pain, but I overall like the release. The beads came off the mandrels easily after annealing. The holes cleaned up well.
I'm not sure if my next bottle of release will be universal or fusion. Will wait and see.
That's my 2cents worth.
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"I love deadlines. I love the whooshing noise they make as they go by." Douglas Adams
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2011-05-16, 7:03am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 09, 2010
Location: Lowell Michigan
Posts: 144
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When I first opened my bottle I thought the consistancy was a little thick. I used it and it was amazing. It held tight while working and the beads came off with no issues. I haven't noticed any of the bubbling that has been seen either. It must be I got a great batch.
From what Tim said they've now developed a way to get a consistant product. I'm sticking with it.
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2011-05-16, 7:09am
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Nikki Haverstock
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Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 1,686
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I have a question, is this the kind of release that you need to keep the flame off of while torching? I have previously used Dip and Go and I can let the flame hit the release all I want but yesterday I lost 4 beads from the release breaking. I am still VERY new so I am willing to admit that it was user error, I just want to know how to fix whatever I am doing wrong.
Batch # 103
Location Orange County California (near disneyland)
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2011-05-16, 8:51am
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Against the Grain
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Join Date: Dec 07, 2006
Location: The Villages, FL
Posts: 1,398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Brushy
My only real complaint is that it causes bubbles in the glass. I heat the snot out of the release before applying the glass. (I air dry the mandrels, by the way.) I still get too many air bubbles after winding on the glass. BOM also did me this way. I never had this problem with fusion. I spend a lot of time heating the glass to get the bubbles out.
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Oh no. This used to happen to me all the time and I never realized that it was from the release. Then I switched brands and never had that problem again. When I think about all the time I wasted and beads I lost, it doesn't make me happy. It was kind of a weird thing. I'd be almost done with the bead and all of a sudden a huge open bubble would appear on the surface of my bead. I can't remember which brand it was.
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Lynn
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2011-05-16, 8:51am
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Tim Keyzers
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Join Date: May 12, 2011
Posts: 10
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Beth W.
This is the first I've heard of UBR creating bubbles in the glass. I know from past experience that if a person does not heat up the release (any release) enough to remove all the moisture, it may result in bubbles.... but it sounds like you are aware of this and are heating the release well. Anybody else experiencing this?
I can say that when we are making this release, we do not intend for it to be a consistency that drips down the mandrel. If you are experiencing drips, I would recommend to leave the cap off for awhile and let it thicken up a bit.
Would everybody that comments on their personal experiences with UBR (both likes and dislikes) please include their location and the three digit batch ID on the bottom of the bottle. I think that this could help reflect how the same mix can react differently in different environments. If we gather enough information, we may be able to make this product even more "Universal".
Every persons feedback, good and bad, experienced and newbie is very valuable at this point. There's always room for improvement, and we plan to make UBR the best it can be.
We appreciate everybody taking the time to share. Thank You.
Tim.
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2011-05-17, 12:17am
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Old Time Bead Maker
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Join Date: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Shelton, Washington
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polgarra
I have a question, is this the kind of release that you need to keep the flame off of while torching? I have previously used Dip and Go and I can let the flame hit the release all I want but yesterday I lost 4 beads from the release breaking. I am still VERY new so I am willing to admit that it was user error, I just want to know how to fix whatever I am doing wrong.
Batch # 103
Location Orange County California (near disneyland)
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Hi sunny California... I miss Disneyland...
This release takes direct and prolonged heat, right on the mandrel. I do suggest strongly though, to let the release dry on the mandrels overnight though for this.
I work my beads at least 2 -3 hours, HOT since it's silver reactive glass, and then they are pressed, raked, dragged, twisted, cut and any other abuse I'm in the mood for... This release holds firm, even directing the heat right on the ends of my tabs and the like.
Heat the mandrels to a dull glow, starting high up in the flame, then bring your mandrel down at your working distance from the flame. Get a nice, mellow orange glow and then add your hot glass to get your bead started.
Keep at it....you'll get the hang of it...
Bye for now,
Sue
Pacific Northwest...Batches 102 & 103 at the moment...
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2011-05-17, 12:27am
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Old Time Bead Maker
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Join Date: Feb 20, 2007
Location: Shelton, Washington
Posts: 112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Brushy
I like the new release fairly well. It is a little thin as it does drip down the mandrel after dipping. However it only drips a couple of inches and then quits. It does not drip enough to affect the top portion of the mandrel where the bead will go.
My only real complaint is that it causes bubbles in the glass. I heat the snot out of the release before applying the glass. (I air dry the mandrels, by the way.) I still get too many air bubbles after winding on the glass. BOM also did me this way. I never had this problem with fusion. I spend a lot of time heating the glass to get the bubbles out. Kind of a pain, but I overall like the release. The beads came off the mandrels easily after annealing. The holes cleaned up well.
I'm not sure if my next bottle of release will be universal or fusion. Will wait and see.
That's my 2cents worth.
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Hi Beth,
I'll chime in here for a second if it's ok...
In all my testing of Universal, I have been able to make all those nasty bubbles you're talking about...
My suggestion is twofold.....
One, heat the dried mandrels up high in the flame for just a few, to get a dull orange glow. Once you get that, bring your mandrel down to your working distance from the torch face, heat to a nice mellow glow and then start to add your hot glass. I like to work a good build up right at the initial footprint and then marver it down to get to the length I am after.
My second tip is when using a new rod of glass, never heat the cut end of your rod. Either heat just above the end or heat the end and pull it off. The cut ends leave tons of micro bubbles in their path and those can be a pain and they can also work themselves together to become giant pains in the you know what...
Forgive me if you already know this, it's just how I do things and thought it might help.
Sincerely,
Sue
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2011-05-17, 7:25am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 636
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I am still having problems with this release breaking. I will be making a bead and suddenly they release starts cracking and flying off the mandrel. What am I doing wrong? I am allowing it to dry over night.
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2011-05-17, 7:34am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 09, 2010
Location: Lowell Michigan
Posts: 144
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Batch 103 being used near Grand Rapids Michigan. Letting it dry overnight and having no problems.
Just and FYI - In several threads I've seen where people are suggesting to let the beads soak for removal. I've never had to do this with any brand I've ever used. I use my stained glass running pliers (with the rubber ends) to hold the mandrel and twist with my fingers. Works great with this stuff too. To avoid bending I'm placing the mandrel close to the handles, thru the rubber ends so the bead release is just in front of the ends. Give the bead a slight twist and it's loose. This release holds tight while hot and breaks like a dream cold.
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2011-05-17, 12:31pm
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Tim Keyzers
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Join Date: May 12, 2011
Posts: 10
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Carmen,
I'm sorry to hear you are having difficulty with this release.
Could you please tell us what the 3 digit code on the bottom of your bottle is? We have not done any testing in South Africa yet so we REALLY appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences with us.
My first thought is to ask if you are using new or used mandrels... If new mandrels are not cleaned first, this can result in flaking and cracking...
Beyond that, the only time I experienced flaking was when the release was either too thick or not allowed to dry all the way (or both). Does the release seem thick to you?
What release have you used prior to UBR? Did you ever have this same issue with that release?
I hope we can figure out what is happening. Thank you for your patience.
Tim.
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2011-05-17, 12:48pm
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Nikki Haverstock
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Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 1,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneauBrat
Hi sunny California... I miss Disneyland...
This release takes direct and prolonged heat, right on the mandrel. I do suggest strongly though, to let the release dry on the mandrels overnight though for this.
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I did not let it dry overnight. I will do that and try again. I also wasn't sure how hot I could get it. I will try again and let you know.
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2011-05-17, 1:02pm
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Triumphantly Knit!
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Join Date: Dec 30, 2010
Location: Ninth Level Lightbody
Posts: 1,332
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103 nj
I thinned mine some more and it's better, not running and making drip blobs. I also notice it sticks to the fatter mandrels better. my hunch is this is user error, is there a key to dipping thinner mandrels?
namaste
Rowyn
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2011-05-17, 9:47pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 29, 2005
Location: South Africa
Posts: 636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Planet Glass Products
Carmen,
I'm sorry to hear you are having difficulty with this release.
Could you please tell us what the 3 digit code on the bottom of your bottle is? We have not done any testing in South Africa yet so we REALLY appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences with us.
My first thought is to ask if you are using new or used mandrels... If new mandrels are not cleaned first, this can result in flaking and cracking...
Beyond that, the only time I experienced flaking was when the release was either too thick or not allowed to dry all the way (or both). Does the release seem thick to you?
What release have you used prior to UBR? Did you ever have this same issue with that release?
I hope we can figure out what is happening. Thank you for your patience.
Tim.
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Thanks for getting back to me Tim.
My batch number is 102. My mandrels are old. The release was very thick when I got it so I thinned it down with distilled water. Maybe it is too thin now?
I am using Dip n go Sludge at the moment and not having any problems. I had the same problem with Fusion as UBR.
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