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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #61  
Old 2007-02-09, 1:32am
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Your stuck together beads mean they are touching one another in the kiln before they've cooled off from the torching temp. There are racks you can get (even a rod rest will work) to put inside your kiln and set one bead per slot...once you've filled up all the slots (about 8 or 9, depending) then you can take the oldest ones and stack them up inside your kiln. That should have given them an opportunity to cool down enough to not get kiss marks, or get stuck together.

You should anneal at the highest temp your glass can handle. The jury is still out on mixing some of the CiM colors with Effetre with a lower annealing range. The thing to be careful of is being sure it's not hot enough to slump or sag your beads (they'll melt out of shape if the kiln temp is too hot for the glass). I personally have my kiln set at 1000 and that's what I garage at. Others have lower...depends on your kiln and glass of choice.

What type of kiln do you have?
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  #62  
Old 2007-02-09, 2:02am
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Way cool, thank you.
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  #63  
Old 2007-02-09, 10:52pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CO_Phantom View Post
Your stuck together beads mean they are touching one another in the kiln before they've cooled off from the torching temp. There are racks you can get (even a rod rest will work) to put inside your kiln and set one bead per slot...once you've filled up all the slots (about 8 or 9, depending) then you can take the oldest ones and stack them up inside your kiln. That should have given them an opportunity to cool down enough to not get kiss marks, or get stuck together.

You should anneal at the highest temp your glass can handle. The jury is still out on mixing some of the CiM colors with Effetre with a lower annealing range. The thing to be careful of is being sure it's not hot enough to slump or sag your beads (they'll melt out of shape if the kiln temp is too hot for the glass). I personally have my kiln set at 1000 and that's what I garage at. Others have lower...depends on your kiln and glass of choice.

What type of kiln do you have?
A new SC2 paragon with the sentry digital contol. Is their any annealing thread other then the temp one here?
Thanks for the reply!
I have kiln stilts with pins on them so I put one bead on each pin-stacked them on top of each other - there was a lot of kissing going on in there. More action then I'm seeing!
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  #64  
Old 2007-02-10, 12:17pm
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Hee. More action that I'm getting, too. Damn beads.

If you do a search for annealing schedules i'm sure you will find TONS of info on here. My computer is being ridiculously slow this morning or else I wouldtry to post a link to one.

It's okay for beads to touch once they've cooled off enough in the kiln (it always puzzles people when i tell them I have a kiln to cool beads off...) Anywho, rest them one at a time on the posts until they've been in there at least 10 or 15 minutes (err on the side of caution and go longer) and then you can move the older ones out of the way and start to stack them up along the side of the kiln.

Hope this helps!

-Amy
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  #65  
Old 2007-02-10, 12:19pm
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Oh, yeah. I use the annealing schedule in the Sentry booklet that came with my kiln (Paragon Caldera). I haven't had issues with that yet, but I've only been using Effetre and have just now branched out to other 104 COE glasses and even other COEs. Hence the chart so we can get a general idea of the annealing schedules for our beads with these glasses.

-Amy
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  #66  
Old 2007-02-11, 7:58am
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Cross-posted from another thread but I thought it has its place here too:

There is one thing that I would like to add regarding Effetre's annealing. I don't know why the annealing temp of choice for most beadmakers for that glass is around 960F. In Effetre's own catalog, the annealing temp is listed as 470°C/870F and the Muranese lampworkers I know who use it anneal between 470°C and 500°C, not above.
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  #67  
Old 2007-02-11, 8:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CO_Phantom View Post
Okay, I've made some revisions to add the other glasses that you guys suggested, but I haven't found much info for many of them, so there are more blanks to fill in. I emailed Double Helix but haven't heard back from them about annealing temp of their glass.

Some of the end colums scrunched a little bit, but the info is still understandable.

Here we go:
Thanks so much for all this info..especially since you most likely have alot of other things going on in your life. And thanks to everyone for contributing.

Wish we could make you a cake!

Anne
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  #68  
Old 2007-02-11, 10:15am
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Hee. You're not kidding. =) Just got the new contract negotiated and signed, will be moving to Salt Lake City in less than 2 weeks. Company still hasn't found my housing yet. New managers sound like ^@%@#A and they switched my shift from "modified second" to graveyards. The next 3 months could be interesting...

But, hey, I'm in Vegas for the weekend. Seeing Phantom tonight. Possibly a helicopter tour. Just chillin' before I have to get back to the grindstone. It's all good...

Glass. I take glass. But only when I ever get my new address...hee.

Still kinda waiting on Tink to chime in here, too.

-Amy
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  #69  
Old 2007-02-12, 12:28am
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Must be a Traveler doing the 13 wk contracts-grt8 way 2 see the world.Did it for 30+ yrs-loved almost every min of it. Wasn't 2 thrilled with Baharain and the UAE.
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  #70  
Old 2007-02-12, 4:42am
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Amy, would you be able to PM your spreadsheet in the excel format to me. I opened the pdf file and there are some columns cut off on the right. I am really good at excel and I can make it really look pretty. I hope you don't mind me asking. My personal email is maryshafer@cfl.rr.com.

What a great job you have done, and a lot of work.
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  #71  
Old 2007-02-12, 11:25am
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This is great information! Thanks!!
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  #72  
Old 2007-02-25, 2:01pm
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I will chime in with the thanks - this is great!
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  #73  
Old 2007-02-25, 5:52pm
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Sorry I've not been in this thread for a while.

Yep. 13 week assignments in the US only. As a medical technologist. Going to Salt Lake City next. Hopefully when I'm done there I can either get back to Colorado for an assignment and see my house (!!!!) or to Las Vegas to hang out for a while.

J&M I will email the spreadsheet to you and you can work your magic with it.

-Amy
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  #74  
Old 2007-03-20, 5:43am
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bump
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  #75  
Old 2007-06-19, 12:41pm
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Okay I know this is an old thread but I think the info here is worth bumping up again and I gave it a five star rating. I am hoping some of the gaps can be filled in on the annealing chart Amy worked so hard on. Kudos Amy and thank you!
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  #76  
Old 2007-06-19, 5:39pm
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Ok, first off, I want to thank Amy, and everyone else who contributed to this.

Sincer there were a couple of tiny formating issues, plus the fact that I couldn't update a PDF file, I took Amy's PDF file, and converted it back to an Excel file. I've added my tiny contributions where possible, and now have the spreadsheet on my web site.

http://www.artcoinc.com/lenewglasschart.xls

This is an Excel spreadsheet, so you will need a program (like Excel) that can read it.

If there is interest (and no objections), I can put a link to it on my Resources page. I can also keep it updated, if anyone provides new info.

HTH

Malcolm
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  #77  
Old 2007-06-20, 1:37pm
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Wow! Fantastic chart!
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  #78  
Old 2007-06-29, 6:08pm
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Excellent work.....thanks for taking the time & trouble.
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  #79  
Old 2007-07-06, 7:13am
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Great thread and great chart!

5 starts from me!
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  #80  
Old 2007-07-09, 12:14am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArtcoInc View Post
Ok, first off, I want to thank Amy, and everyone else who contributed to this.

Sincer there were a couple of tiny formating issues, plus the fact that I couldn't update a PDF file, I took Amy's PDF file, and converted it back to an Excel file. I've added my tiny contributions where possible, and now have the spreadsheet on my web site.

http://www.artcoinc.com/lenewglasschart.xls

This is an Excel spreadsheet, so you will need a program (like Excel) that can read it.

If there is interest (and no objections), I can put a link to it on my Resources page. I can also keep it updated, if anyone provides new info.

HTH

Malcolm

Nope, no objections from me! Keeping it updated would fabulous! I just wanted to get it started since it didn't really seem to go anywhere.

At least if it was posted on the website as a link people wouldn't need Excel to read it. That was an initial objection with the first one I posted that I'd done in Excel...people didn't have the program to view it! If it were saved as a PDF that would be fantastic, or available to view by clicking on a link rather than needing extra stuff to view it. That way it would keep it simple for people who want to access the info.

-Amy
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  #81  
Old 2007-07-09, 12:14am
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Thanks for the rating, too!

-Amy
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  #82  
Old 2007-07-09, 9:36am
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Nope, no objections from me! Keeping it updated would fabulous! I just wanted to get it started since it didn't really seem to go anywhere.

At least if it was posted on the website as a link people wouldn't need Excel to read it. That was an initial objection with the first one I posted that I'd done in Excel...people didn't have the program to view it! If it were saved as a PDF that would be fantastic, or available to view by clicking on a link rather than needing extra stuff to view it. That way it would keep it simple for people who want to access the info.

-Amy
Thanks, Amy

I too can convert it to a PDF file, if there's interest.

So, any updated information, anyone?

Malcolm
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  #83  
Old 2007-10-05, 9:05pm
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Hi all, I've contacted Jim Kervin as to his opinion on some of the Effetre/Moretti annealing temps - what you have is what he has stated in his book, but I have asked him about the lower annealing temps of the silver glasses that are often over an Effetre or Vetrofond base (at least mine are), and whether that leaves the base of the bead unannealed. I'm awaiting his reply.

Sadie
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  #84  
Old 2007-10-05, 9:13pm
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Sadie - we can corner him at next month's meeting if he doesn't respond sooner! lol!
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  #85  
Old 2007-10-06, 9:24am
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Sadie - we can corner him at next month's meeting if he doesn't respond sooner! lol!
Remind me, and we can all corner him together

I still have that spreadsheet on my web site, although it's not shown on any of the menus. If Jim (and Amy, and ....) don't mind, I'll gladly put it on the menu, and make it public.

Malcolm
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Last edited by ArtcoInc; 2007-10-06 at 9:27am.
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  #86  
Old 2007-10-28, 1:12pm
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I don't mind.

That's why I put the source I found the information on the info I put together, because I didn't want anyone going "hey, that's not right!" Not coming up with anything new, just regurtigating info from other sources and putting it all in one place.

Great idea to ask Jim about the lower annealing temps for silver glasses. I'd be interested to see what he has to say about it.

-Amy
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  #87  
Old 2007-10-28, 6:23pm
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Unfortunately, I missed the meeting at Jim's last week. Don't know what I was doing ... must have just spaced on it.

Anyway, if anyone has any updates, let me know.

Malcolm
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  #88  
Old 2007-11-26, 9:07am
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Ok, I've taken the spreadsheet, and converted it to a PDF file. It's available on my web site:

http://www.artcoinc.com/resources.php

Scroll down to the long paragraph at the bottom, and click on the word 'here'.
(note: You'll need a PDF viewer on your computer to view it)

I'll keep this up until someone tells me to take it down. I'll also update it if people send me more information.

Malcolm
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  #89  
Old 2007-11-26, 10:00am
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Sorry to have never posted the results of my emailing Jim Kervin - here is a copy of the questions and his replies (seems I had some confusion on the issue - smile).

Me -
I've been annealing my beads at 970, and see from your book that is the suggested annealing temperature for Effetre - so far so good!

There has been a series of threads running prompted by the emergence of the silver based glasses that suggest annealing at a lower temperature. In some cases as low as 850. This is necessary in some instances to keep some of the effects of the silver glass from changing in the kiln. My understanding of the process of annealing would mean that for larger beads (mine are honkers on the whole) and perhaps even for smaller ones, a lower temperature would mean that these beads are, in effect, not annealed? From your description as to how the annealing point is calculated I would think that 970 is the lowest temp. to have it annealed and that anything much below that (assuming the kilns are accurately calibrated) would cause a bead to not be annealed.

Many beads are formed over a base of Vetrofond or Effetre glass and surely this portion of the bead would not be annealed at a lower temp?

Just seeking some clarification on this issue!


Jim

The annealing temp relieves stress in a bead in a few minutes (~15).

You can actually anneal all the way down to the strain point (~800) but then because the atoms in the glass are much less mobile you would have to spend a few hours at that temperature to relieve any stress in the bead.

The stress comes from the rapid cooling coming out of the flame.

Then to prevent further stress from being captured in the bead you have to cool slowly back to room temperature and the larger the bead the slower you should cool.


Me

Thank you Jim ... I have been thinking of the annealing temp as a point rather than a range. So it's the strain point that's not variable?


Jim

They are both defined as a viscosity, which is a measure of how fast the material can flow or stretch with flow being a lot more at the annealing point than at the strain point. So actually there is wiggle room on both of them.

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  #90  
Old 2008-03-25, 5:28am
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bump for posterity (is that the right word?)
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