Why is this happening? Cricket question...

[Debi Razz]

Okay, I have a Cricket that I am running at a fuel pressure of about 3.5 and my oxygen pressure at about 5. I keep getting this little glowing pieces of something? right at the holes on the torch. What is that and how do I prevent it?

It will clog up my flame a bit, so I have been taking my pliers and quickly brushing them away. I tried cleaning out the holes of the torch, but it is still happening. I have only had my torch since about the second week in December. Any help with this problem would be immensely appreciative!!

Thanks in advance!

[Debi Razz]

Also, I got these same glowing pieces when I was working on natural gas too... I switched back to propane because my pressure for the natural gas just wasn't there and I wanted my heat back. (p.s. I got brand new hoses)

Thanks..

[Hayley]

How big is your flame? I find that the GTT torches I have used tend to have carbon build-up if you don't run a full flame (as in larger than 1/4") - and especially if you are on an oxycon. The Cricket is supposed to be better than the Bobcat since the holes are larger - I have used one for a few hours and tho it's better than the Bobcat, it still had build-up. I had a Bobcat and had to flick the torch face periodically with my tweezers.

[Debi Razz]

I would say that the middle candles are at least 1/2 inch! I have been running it with a very large flame. I guess I can just keep picking these off, but I don't want to hurt the torch or be unsafe or anything.

[gubnavnania]

I have this problem as well and I run my candles about 1/4" like Kim's recommendation.

[Hayley]

Are you on an oxycon? That may contribute to it as well since the purity of oxygen isn't as high on an oxycon. I don't seem to have as much carbon buildup when the torch is on tanked oxygen.

[IF-Designs]

try turning down your propane a smidge or turning up your oxy a bit. Your getting lil carbon buildups....sometimes these happen when the torch is new and goes away but if its still doing it after a month of solid torching defniately have that looked into. But typically changing your pressures help.

[pam]

Karin is right, carbon buildup caused by too much propane for the amount of oxy you are pushing through the torch. I never have buildup on my Cheetah/oxy con, so it's not GTT torches, but the way you are balancing the oxy/propane - at least that's my experience.

[Hayley]

Pam - I don't think the bigger GTT torches have the same issue. My theory is that your oxy supply is stronger and your flame is bigger, thus eliminating the carbon buildup. Then again, I can be completely off base.

Where is Kimberly when we need her?

[earlbacher]

try turning up your oxygen pressure a little bit...
i run my cricket with about four times as much oxygen pressure, and havent had an issue with the carbon buildup...

[gubnavnania]

My oxycon is Airsep newlife intensity.
According to their website, it has: Oxygen Concentration:* 2–7 lpm: 92% ±3%; 8 lpm: 90% ±3%
Oxygen Outlet Pressure: 20 psig (138 kPa)

I always run my oxycon at 5lpm and propane at 3psi. And mostly on slightly oxy flame.

[Debi Razz]

I am not using an oxycon. I am on tanked O2. I have tried turning the propane down and oxygen up and messed with a lot and still get this. I am going to try to turn up my pressure on the oxygen and back off just a little bit on the propane pressure and see if that helps. Thank you so much to all of you who answered. I wondered if it was carbon because I had read about that happening. Right now, I'm gearing up for a trunk show, but if it is still doing it after I'm done with my show, I am going to have to have it looked at to see if anything can fix it.

Thanks again!

[Mr. Smiley]

It's just carbon... it happens. Just keep brushing it off. I've had it on just about every torch at one time or another. Larger GTTs are much better about not getting it than others. It doesn't hurt anything as long as you keep an eye on your torch face and knock them off. I have a mirror set up so I can see my torch while I work. If anything starts to glow, I know right away.

[kbinkster]

Where's Kimberly? I've just been super busy, lately, with the kids. I'll be back later to talk about carboning, why it happens, and how to avoid it. Or, you could do a search using my screen name and "carbon*" for the keyword.

[evvybuns]

As Brent said, it's probably a piece of carbon. I've experienced the same thing with my Cricket.

If I see a glowing carbon piece while I'm torching, I just grab some tweezers and quickly swipe it away with a downward motion. You don't need to grab it--just knock it away with the tweezer edge.

[Flonche]

Funny, why do we all do that with tweezers? None of us said "graphite rod", or "tungsten pick" or anything else that can be grabbed handy!
I guess tweezers have magical powers

[earlbacher]

i'll use a glass rod thats in my hand at the moment... no need to pick up a different tool...

[IF-Designs]

ok when i had that problem I didnt use tweezers I use my dental spatula so there! lol

[evvybuns]

It's just the nature of my work area that tweezers are handy because they're easy to find! But use anything that's easy!

[Debi Razz]

Okay, I torched all day on friday and I turned up the pressure on my tanked oxygen. This did help quite a bit, but then I blew through oxygen like crazy. I think I am going to turn the pressure back down and keep knocking off the carbon with my tools so that I don't blow through my oxygen so fast. When and if I ever get a concentrator, then I can turn up the pressure and not have to worry about running out of oxygen in the middle of a bead! thanks for all the comments and answers, you are all GREAT!!!

[Bellagirl]

I use a Cricket too and have this happening. Especially when I use dichroic glass. I just knock it off also.

I have been putting in 10hr days and love this torch. A real workhorse.

[Flonche]

Originally Posted by Debi Razz

Okay, I torched all day on friday and I turned up the pressure on my tanked oxygen. This did help quite a bit, but then I blew through oxygen like crazy. I think I am going to turn the pressure back down and keep knocking off the carbon with my tools so that I don't blow through my oxygen so fast. When and if I ever get a concentrator, then I can turn up the pressure and not have to worry about running out of oxygen in the middle of a bead! thanks for all the comments and answers, you are all GREAT!!!

This is why I am resurrecting this thread. It looks like I am not the only one perplexed by this issue.
After I read the recent GTT thread (the one in Customer Service Kiosk) I realized how badly I was treating my Cricket, especially recently as I lit it and keep getting a weird flame going all over the place. The flame goes back to normal after pushing some oxygen through it.

But my old (18004 hrs, can this be the real number??) 3rd hand DeVilbiss doesn't seem to like having to push because shortly after I adjust my flame according to what I read was the best for the Cricket, it beeps, ball goes down, "below normal operation" light goes on.

My questions are:
- could the torch and the oxycon problems be linked here?
- should I send Cricket for a glamour day in PA or can I clean it myself if they send me the wires?
- what is the basic maintenance on a old oxycon (I've had it for 4 months and probably put about 200 hrs on it)? Could Oxycon be acting up because of something different than Cricket's desperate need for TLC?

Some clues:
- I am a 4-months dual fuel set-up newbie (2 years on a Hot Head). I did a little research before lighting up, but I probably didn't pay enough attention to details. For the record, I did not receive instructions and cleaning wires with my torch, by the way, probably because I bought it back in December when they were swamped in orders and it sounds like a few packages didn't get the instructions. I am NOT blaming anybody for that; I should have asked for it afterwards but didn't realize how important it was.
- So I was running a very short, very unbalanced flame (propane on 5 psi and oxycon with the ball way over 5. Why did I do that? For a stupid reason, but I can't remember which one) until I realized I was damaging my torch, and as I tried to fix it,
1) looks like it's too late and the carbon has built inside the ports, or that weird flame wouldn't happen;
2) my oxycon won't let me

Steps I will take today: Read more info. Please tell me everything.
I got a new propane tank (the other one was almost empty), will try again setting the regulator way low at 1 psi (I know that's how I started 4 months ago, but for some more stupid reason I changed it) and reset the oxycon and run with the ball just under 5.

If you're still here, congratulations! You won the privilege of telling me what to do next!

Thank you in advance for your help

[bead crazy]

I have a betta which is a low presure torch like the cricket and I find it does much better with very low propane presure. Like 2 psi any more I get carbon build up or a reducing flame so you may want to try lowering the propane instead of raising the O2

[Flonche]

Thank you Lori, that's what I am planning on doing.

[pam]

Flonche, the only other advice I can give you is that some propane regulators will have a problem delivering low propane pressures, so keep an eye on that. Your propane should at least be half of what the oxy is for most torches, so I think you are heading in the right direction. Why don't you call Wally and talk with him. I am sure he will have some good advice for you.

[Flonche]

Thank you Pam, I bought an acetylene regulator especially because the gas guy told me that it would be more adapted for low pressure. I haven't tried to reset everything tonight as we're headed out to dinner, but considering the state of my torch I am now wondering if I shouldn't just wait for the wires to arrive and do my cleaning before I test anything.
And I hate to bother people on week ends!! I will probably give them a call on Monday.
Your advices are precious, thank you so much!

[kbinkster]

Floche, you should never run your 5 LPM oxycon with the ball over the 5 LPM mark. For one thing, that is where the purity plummets and you will have a hard time getting a truly neutral flame. For another thing, running it higher than 5 LPM when the machine is only rated for 5 LPM floods the seive beds and damages the machine.

Try setting your propane a little higher - up to 10 psi. You're not going to necessarily use that much (what amount you use is determined by the valve on the torch) but it will help keep your regulator output even.

Double check your box for the instruction sheet with the wire taped to it. They fold it up and slide it between the box and the foam insert so that it is folded over the top of the torch. If the box was opened upside down, you'd miss it. If it isn't there, call GTT and tell them that you did not receive your instruction sheet and cleaning wire.

I would try to clean it myself before sending it in. That other thread has my cleaning tips on it.

As for how a torch and oxycon are related... When you have them hooked up, how much you open the oxygen valve on the torch determines how much oxygen is allowed to come out of the machine.

When your oxygen valve is shut, no oxygen can come out of the machine and it backpressures. This is bad for the machine and why you should never run your concentrator with the torch oxygen valve shut except for that brief moment it takes to turn off the oxygen, turn on the propane, and light up.

The flow valve on the machine will set an upper limit for the amount of oxygen leaving the machine and going into the torch. If you set your flow valve to 3 LPM when the machine is free-flowing (either not connected to the torch or with the torch oxygen valve wide open), you will not get more than 3 LPM coming out of the machine. So, you really want to set it to about 4-5 LPM.

The thing to remember is that if you just set your flow meter to 5 when your torch oxygen valve is open, but don't take care to make sure that it is open all the way, when you get going and open that valve up more while you're workng, it's going to creep up over 5 LPM and you will overflow your machine.

After you have cleaned your torch, try this and see what happens:

Make sure that your propane is hooked up on the right side (corresponding to the red valve cap end) and oxygen is on the left (corresponding to the green valve cap end).

Set your fuel regulator somewhere between 5 and 10 psi.

Make sure that your concentrator is set to the full 5 LPM with the oxygen valve on the torch wide open.

Turn off your torch oxy valve long enough to light the propane.

Run your propane flame to about 6-7" long and then turn on your oxygen valve.

Adjust both valves until you have candles that are between 1/4" and 1/2" and those candles have small yellow/white tips on the end (about 1 mm or maybe a tiny bit bigger).

You can try testing the flame chemistry with a stick of reactive glass. If you are running all blue tips or very small blue tips on candles that are longer than 1/4" and the flame is reducing, then you are either working too close in or your concentrator is putting out poor purity.

When I tested the Cricket on a 5 LPM machine, at 5 LPM, the shoulder of the flame was 0.850-0.880” wide and the candles were 0.55" long. Those candles had yellow tips, but were still in the neutral range. The overall flame length was 13". So, you should be able to get a similar flame on your machine if it is in good working order. If you have restrictions in your line between the machine and the torch, your flame will be smaller. When I was testing with a Y-connector in-line, I ended up with a flame that was 0.75" wide with 0.5" neutral candles.

If your machine has not been reconditioned or if it has been overflowed and run improperly, it may need serviced.

[Flonche]

Ok, so here's what I did:
- disconnect hoses from torch
- lightly cleaned torch ports with soft, used jewelers' saw blade (NOT reaming, just twisting it in my fingers)
- ran compressed air through both hoses with both valves open, one at a time
- reconnect: left propane pressure set at 5 psi, opened oxy valve all the way, turned oxycon on and set ball to 4.5 lpm.
- usual lighting ritual, now re-opening oxy valve all the way, all the time. Adjust propane flame accordingly for this flame:



Everything went well, no carboning, no beeping, lovely SMALL beads.

But now I understand how all of this happened. I remember very clearly now that when I originally set up the torch, having no instructions (I did miraculously find the box in my recycle bin, by the way, and there weren't instructions in it), I did it very exactly accordingly to what Cindy and Wally had told me, and to what I read here from Kim. I had it right in the beginning, used my concentrator correctly etc, but at some point I got a little impatient with that tiny flame and started messing up everything (up, up, up the ball! I guess I almost ruined my oxycon) AND not paying any attention to the chemistry of the flame at all, as long as it was doing what I wanted it to do.

Now I assume I am stuck with this adorable, very usable little flame unless I get a better concentrator (I am NOT switching to tanks)? Or is there something else I should now?

Thank you again for your help, Kim. I have taken good notes of how to use a dual fual torch set up and I will try to REMEMBER all that!

[kbinkster]

Flonche, can you add a little bit more fuel to beef up the flame or back off on the oxygen to soften it up a little without going into reduction (as evidenced by how the glass reacts) or carboning up the torch face?

Here is a picture of two Crickets being run on a single 10 LPM machine.

You should be able to get a flame that size with 5 LPM.

It may be that your concentrator is in poor health. Replacing it and/or adding a second one would help.

[Flonche]

Kim, I will definitely add a little propane to that and it will probably make me very happy, especially when I want to melt faster/bigger. But I'm afraid that's how I started and it got out of control and the carboning started. So my understanding is that you can run a slightly softer flame (than my picture) without killing the torch, but if the carboning starts again, should you do anything else other than clean?
My deep feeling is that the torch and the settings are good, and besides getting familiar with them, what I should probably do is to get a good oxycon, but I can't do it for the moment. For now I have a little more knowledge of what should/shouldn't be done and I will play with the flame and keep reading the invaluable advice you and others give us.