I'm Using Oxygen Out The Wazoo!!! Is This Normal?

Marie C · #1 2007-01-17, 10:10am

I am using Bethlehem's SS Minnow and absolutely LOVE it.

I started out on a HH and quickly became frustrated because it wouldn't get hot enough to melt butter. My problem is I'm using the tanked O2 out the wazoo! I have the biggest tank available and had a full tank delivered yesterday. I worked about 9 hrs total and used up HALF of that tank!!! Is that what I should expect or do I have some setting wrong? Marcie (Firelady on LE) helped me in getting the Minnow and the settings she recommended are 20 on the O2 and 5 on the Propane. That's what I use. I've tried cutting the O2 back to see if 20 was too high, but the flame's not right. If this is what to expect, I can see I need to bite the bullet and buy an O2 concentrator. Anybody out there having the same problem? I did have 2 tanks delievered yesterday but still, at this rate, I will use them both up within a couple of weeks or less.

Thanks guys!

Warmly, Marie C

Marcie (Firelady on LE)

Marie C · #2 2007-01-17, 10:12am

Oops, I didn't mean to leave 'Marcie (Firelady on LE)' on the bottom of my 1st post. Sorry.

Warmly, Marie C

Cosmo · #3 2007-01-17, 10:19am

How big is "big" for your oxygen tank? I have a 282 lb tank which is about 5' tall, and maybe 10" in diameter. On my Carlisle CC, I can get two days out of it if I run my torch wide open for 5-6 hours a day. My torch uses probably 10 times the oxygen that a Betta does.

Marie C · #4 2007-01-17, 2:48pm

bHi Cosmo! Thanks for your response.

My tank is the same size as the one you described. I guess I didn't realize some torches use more O2 than others. I would think the bigger torches would use more O2 but the Minnow is Bethlehem's smallest torch (to my knowledge). What setting do you have your oxygen on?

Thanks! Warmly, Marie C

Cosmo · #5 2007-01-17, 4:08pm

I keep my regulator on about 35, but we have two torches running off of it. There is no way a Betta should use anywhere near as much oxygen as a CC. I would check to see if you have a leak somewhere.

How is your flame? Do you have a hard time melting glass? That could mean you have way too much oxygen in your flame, which would mean you are using oxygen faster.

IF-Designs · #6 2007-01-17, 4:21pm

wow the minnow uses that much! holy crap! my GTT CHEETAH runs on 7-10 psi propane and 20-25 psi oxy

The one thing I worry about Marie is if the flame isnt right with lesser pressures of oxy and propane I dont know if using a oxy con on it will be ok, the oxy con is alot less PSI output than your tank.

Anyone have the specs on the minnow ?

Emily · #7 2007-01-17, 4:40pm

Are you using soft glass or boro?

kbinkster · #8 2007-01-17, 4:42pm

Bethlehem states that the Minnow uses oxygen at the rate of 20 CFH. This about twice what they say a Piranha uses. They say that the Betta uses almost 12 CFH.

Marie, when I read your post about the lower pressure, and how you didn't like the flame, I thought the same as Karin. Most oxycons (the ones that have not been altered beyond the intent of the manufacturer) will not put out over 9 psi. So, if you need at least 20 psi to get the flame you want, then you might not be happy with an oxygen concentrator. I remember reading elsewhere, though, that Nancy (kaleidoscope glass?) was very happy running her Minnow on an Integra10 (old version of the Regalia). What kind of flame are you trying to run? How long are your candles?

As for the huge oxygen consumption, have you checked for a leak?

Marie C · #9 2007-01-17, 10:04pm

Cosmo- My flame is good, as far as I can tell it's what I should expect. No problem melting soft glass, haven't tried boro. How do I check for a leak? I guess I need to call the O2 supply company and talk to them about it. I would think they also should be able to tell me how long a tank should last at these settings.

Karin (If- Designs)- Thanks for commenting. I hadn't thought about it but you're probably right. I don't want to pay the big bucks for an O2 concentrator and then not be happy because of lower psi. Thanks!

Emily- Soft glass and it melts it easily. Thanks!

Kbinkster- Thanks for your comments. I'll contact Nancy and talk with her about her O2 concentrator with her Minnow. As far as your question on what kind of flame I'm trying to run, just a neutral flame as described in Corina's book. I'm a terrible judge of measurement, so it's hard to say how long the candles are but I would say maybe 1/2". Does that sound right? I may be wrong on that number. Thanks again!

Good night guys! Thanks again for your interest and your help.

Warmly, Marie C

Megan · #10 2007-01-17, 10:08pm

Wow, I would go broke having to refill an O2 tank that often. I have the Minnow and run on two Oxygen Concentrators, setting both at 4.5 lpm, I am not sure what that equates to in tanked O2..

pam · #11 2007-01-18, 5:28am

Hi Marie, Your oxy setting seems a bit high to me, but Marcie should know. On the size tank you are using, I generally get around 20 to 25 hours of torch work. I am using a Cheetah, which is a larger torch, but then I don't normally use it to its limit. You may have a leak, but the use to me doesn't sound unusual if you are using the torch at its high end. People can use the exact same torch and use more or less oxy depending on what they need in a flame size and force. Perhaps you might try dialing back your flame a little. It will take longer to melt the glass, but it may decrease your oxy use.

kbinkster · #12 2007-01-18, 10:39am

Marie, 1/2" seems like it's on the long end for soft glass work. 1/4" to 3/8" is pretty standard for soft glass work. A good way to measure your candles is to compare them to the width of a regular rod of Effetre. They are usually around 1/4" in diameter. What sized beads are you making?

The Cheetah uses 22 CFH when run at its maximum. *Bethlehem states* that when the Minnow is run on its maximum flame, it uses 20 CFH. The Cheetah has twice the number of jets of the Minnow and uses almost the same amount of oxygen.

So, when Pam says that she can get 20-25 hours of work from a torch that consumes 22 CFH at its top end and Marie says that she only gets 8-9 hours of work on a torch that consumes close to the same amount of oxygen at its top end, and neither are using their torch to their top end, I would start to question a few things.

First, I would suspect a leak. You can buy leak detection solution at a welding supply shop. You just brush it on your connections and look for bubbles to form. Of course, every time I have been in to look for this stuff, they never have it. So, I use soapy water and make sure to wipe it off after I test.

Second, if there was no leak, I would look at how I was running the flame and why. Am I running a lot of oxygen because I need a big flame to work bigger stuff? Or, is there something wrong with the flame when I use less? Am I trying to clean up a bad candle, for instance?

Third, I would really question whether or not the flow rate numbers were accurate (am I expecting too much?). When I talk about Bethlehem flow rates, you will notice that I preface it with "Bethlehem states." This is because the flow rates that they state on their website do not necessarily match the flow rates that have been tested by other sources. For example, Bethlehem states that the Piranha (the same as the centerfire for their larger torches) consumes 9.6 CFH oxygen. When Wally and a friend tested a PM2D, the centerfire (the same as a Piranha) tested at 16 CFH oxygen. Also, they have other measurements on their website that are obviously inaccurate. So, it is possibe that the flow rates numbers for the Minnow are inaccurate, as well. Maybe there is nothing at all wrong with the torch or set-up and it should be going through as much oxygen as it is.