Welding rods - toughest

[Debbie]

Is 316L the toughest welding rod out there? Has anyone had any luck finding rods that last? Obviously the worst are the 1/16 but I am having trouble with the 3/32 too. Oddly enough, we seem to have a dearth of welding supply places here - especially ones that are open on Saturdays. If any Boston person reads this. Where do you get your rods and what do you buy?
(especially boro users).

Debbie

[IF-Designs]

Im wondering this too Debbie, I buy 316L but I would really like to find an steel that is a bit tougher Im not sure what though or what I can do to make them last longer or stand up to my boro better.

[Bunyip]

The problem is that the steel loses it's temper when it's reheated close to melting. The real question is there a metal with better high-temperature performance. I'd pay extra for mandrels that don't bend or get weak in the flame. Titanium maybe?

[A.Loomis]

I was just at the welding store last week. The only difference in the 308's that I bought and the 316 is that the 316 is "food grade" which makes it more expensive. That's what the AirGas guy told me as I stood there trying to decide which rods to buy. And no, my local AirGas isn't open on Saturdays. I have two stores right near me - one near home, and one near work. I live in Rhode Island -- how far are you in MA?

-Angela

[Debbie]

Originally Posted by A.Loomis

I was just at the welding store last week. The only difference in the 308's that I bought and the 316 is that the 316 is "food grade" which makes it more expensive. That's what the AirGas guy told me as I stood there trying to decide which rods to buy. And no, my local AirGas isn't open on Saturdays. I have two stores right near me - one near home, and one near work. I live in Rhode Island -- how far are you in MA?

-Angela

That is interesting info. How far am I from where? The center of civilization? That would be about six miles.

[Renee]

Bunyip, I'm with you on this one. It seems lately I've been bending mandrels right and left! I've considered cutting them off to salvage what's left, but I don't have a grinder. (I use the opposite, straight end after I've bent the first, but when both ends are bent ... ) Is there some way to "grind" the end without an actual grinder?

[IF-Designs]

Renee - Ive used stiff emery boards the ones for doing fake nails and also ive used cheapy big metal files from harbor freight to...to get the burrs off

[beadworkstudio]

I saw that someone recommended 320 or even 330 in another thread, but I have no idea what those numbers mean. The 316L rods are bending on me like crazy, too.

[bhhco]

Yes there are tougher materials... but when a manufacturer considers 'cost and user convenience' it doesn't appear profitable.

For example... would you pay $3 each ($36/dozen) for a high temp mandrel that rusts? It would last about 50 uses... but it would not bend or melt through before that point. It would also transmit more heat to the hand... so a pin vise holder might be required by some users. And it has not been tested for compatiblity with today's bead releases. If you want to try it, go to the local hardware store and get a high speed steel drill bit... 1/16" or 3/32". Use the non-drill end. They are all short (about 3") unless you go specfically to a tool supplier and request a 6"-8" length.

There is at least one lampwork supplies retailer that does sell higher strength SS mandrels (not tig wire - and of course they cost more), and they aren't saying which SS code it is (I didn't either when we came out with Verochrome mandrels back in 1993, in the first lampwork kits). The SS used in those mandrels is not sold by welding shops... it's way too tough for what welders use SS tig wire for. I have three different welding shops I use regularly in my local area, on first name basis, and they have no clue about any wire other than the standard wire they carry. But, if you go in with the actual SS code number you want, they can order it... and have for me the next day.

Also, the comment from the welding shop about 'food grade' SS. Always take what a welding shop says with a grain of salt. They like to play little jokes. They do with me too. They recently ask me if I wanted 'Standard Body Wire', since so many kids were buying it for piercings. It breaks the boredom. The SS numerical-alpha designators refer to the actual metal chemistry in the wire... and there are a lot of different SS chemistrys. The SS used most often in 'ktichen tools' is not even in the 300 series.

Me

[Emily]

Mike Aurelius sells some kind of mandrels that are supposed to be tougher. I've heard they actually are. Mike's not telling what they're made from. I assume that's the "lampwork supplies retailer" that "me" mentioned.

Haven't people mentioned using titanium bicycle spokes?

Debbie, I've found the same thing about welding shops. None open on Saturdays, and the one time I had a day off and dropped in on one, I got the "alien from the planet Zorg" treatment. "Naah, that's real specialized stuff, only one shop in the city carries that, way up in the Northeast." Didn't call me "little lady," but it was heavily implied. I ended up ordering a bunch from McMaster-Carr, and since then I've gotten a full-time beadmaker friend who lives out in the boonies to split a box of rods with me. (That turned out to be a mistake -- she got 308L, which is fine with her. This is somebody who can make boro beads on 1/16 mandrels. She's got a delicate touch. I'm rough on mandrels, and I'm discovering that if it's not 316L, I bend the crap out of it in no time.)

[m**2]

If you are bending mandrels that often, you may need to change the position of your bead in the flame. You want to heat the glass, not the mandrel.

Heating followed by slow cooling will eventually soften your mandrels. Thinner mandrels bend more easily.

You may also find that you have fewer problems if you grip the mandrel near the end farthest away from the bead when removing the bead.

A few technical bits...

308 & 316 are different steels.

The L designations means low carbon. Low carbon steels are generally more corrosion resistant than higher carbon steels and L designated steel is generally used for food service applications.

The H designation means high carbon.

There is also a 316Ti.

[playswithfire104]

Renee do you have a dremel type tool? You can get grinding bits for it. That is what I always used till DH got a grinder last month. Funny story - DH sees a grinder for sale at the local hardware store and says he wants to get it. I'm all, like, yeah get a grinder! Then I asked him what HE wants a grinder for - his answer "Well, Tim has one. And John had one. And Dave has one. All the guys have them so I think I should have one." So he bowed to grinder peer pressure! I've used it when I had to make some mandrels shorter but he still dosn't know what he'll use it for.

[Emily]

What I'm finding is that a new 3/32 mandrel cut from a 308L rod, used in exactly the same way I've been using 3/32 mandrels for the past 6 years, bends astonishingly soon. Make that annoyingly, irritatingly soon. Maybe there's something wrong with the particular batch of steel from which the rods we bought were made. They are 308L, though -- I checked the tags pressed onto the ends.

I make large beads that spend a lot of time in the flame and often use presses, so it's a stressful experience for a mandrel. I do keep the flame off the mandrel itself, if only because it makes the bead release flake off.

I really hadn't expected to notice any particular difference between the 308 and the 316. I didn't realize that what I had was 308 until I started getting a lot of bent mandrels and went back and checked the tags on the ones that hadn't been cut off.