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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-12-04, 12:17pm
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Default automatic murrine chopper

Hello people
I would like to build myself (if market dont sell) a device to cut slices starting from millefiori rods...anybody of you can help me with suggests?

thanks in advance

mikefromitaly
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  #2  
Old 2008-12-04, 12:20pm
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See Roberto Dona next trip over, Mike! He has awesome murrine choppers for the trade. I bought a smaller verion from him years ago. It's a guilletine style much like the one Vittorio has in his back room.

Ofilia
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  #3  
Old 2008-12-04, 12:23pm
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Is this the one, Ofilia?

http://www.spiralarts.com/products/p...&idproduct=167
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  #4  
Old 2008-12-04, 12:28pm
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Yup! You got it, Haley! They produce these for the two major Italian smalti manufacturers, Orsoni (in Venice) and Dona (in Murano, a relative of Roberto). Sciavon, who uses almost exclusively thick canes they create in the furnace also uses this handy industrial quality chopper. This gadget is quite the heavy sucker!

Here's a link to see the Dona website: http://www.mosaicidonamurano.com/en/...kshop_shop.php watch the slide show in the middle... that's the "workshop" and shows how the wheel is used to punch down the top guilletine blade.

My version is much smaller and needs a rubber mallet to pound the knob on top to plunk down the top part of the gillietine. I love it!!

Ciao!

Ofilia
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Last edited by Ofilia; 2008-12-04 at 12:30pm.
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  #5  
Old 2008-12-04, 12:48pm
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Wow, how cool!!! I just use my wheel cutters - 'cuz my murrini canes are no larger than 1/8" thick - but admit I have some thick boro murrini cane (about 1/2" thick) that I just can't do anything with right now because I'm too skeered to cut it into slices...I'm sure I would crack it and waste it if I tried to use the nippers!

Ofilia - do you think I could beg you (or bribe you ) into cutting it up for me? Does your chopper work on thicker cane?

De in CA
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  #6  
Old 2008-12-04, 1:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theglasszone View Post
Wow, how cool!!! I just use my wheel cutters - 'cuz my murrini canes are no larger than 1/8" thick - but admit I have some thick boro murrini cane (about 1/2" thick) that I just can't do anything with right now because I'm too skeered to cut it into slices...I'm sure I would crack it and waste it if I tried to use the nippers!

Ofilia - do you think I could beg you (or bribe you ) into cutting it up for me? Does your chopper work on thicker cane?

De in CA
Hi DeAnne, I'm afraid that a half inch is too much for my smaller chopper. That would be best done on a saw.... You have a saw? Or know any lapidary folks in your area?

The choppers are awesome for the cane that is too thick to comforably put in the wheeled nippers. The giant chopper in the above links are the one that have a wide throat and could handle something more substantial.

Ofilia
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Last edited by Ofilia; 2008-12-04 at 1:14pm.
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  #7  
Old 2008-12-04, 1:11pm
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Mike, the other thing you can try to improvise is setting up a "hardie" used in cutting mosaic smalti. Here's a link that shows a hardie with the martello (hammer).

http://mosaicsmalti.com/store/Product.asp?pid=24

You wold need to imbed the hardie into a think wood block, then create raised boards bringing you a "table top" of sorts, to just below the beveled blade edge of the hardie. Then you would need a carbide chisel and a rubber mallet to pound matching the two points of the chisels to chop your millefiori rod to create your murrine. The critical part to not waste your rod, is "Matching" the points.

If you are planning to use for commercial cutting, I'd say invest in the Dona version! It's real purdy and you can afford it, buddy!!

Ofilia
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  #8  
Old 2008-12-04, 1:27pm
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Hi zia Ofilia
come stai??

i think these are "manual" versions and coulb be interesting built an automatic machine as same showed into your website as murrien chopper used at Effetre Murano...

ciao bella!

your nephew,mike
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  #9  
Old 2008-12-04, 1:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ofilia View Post
Hi DeAnne, I'm afraid that a half inch is too much for my smaller chopper. That would be best done on a saw.... You have a saw? Or know any lapidary folks in your area?

The choppers are awesome for the cane that is too thick to comforably put in the wheeled nippers. The giant chopper in the above links are the one that have a wide throat and could handle something more substantial.

Ofilia
A tile saw would probably suffice. They have diamond blades on them also. We got one at Harbor Freight for about $49.
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  #10  
Old 2008-12-04, 2:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefromitaly View Post
Hi zia Ofilia
come stai??

i think these are "manual" versions and coulb be interesting built an automatic machine as same showed into your website as murrien chopper used at Effetre Murano...

ciao bella!

your nephew,mike
Domenico!!! Tutto bene? Well, it's hard enough to find a "manual" chopper here in the states, let alone a fancy dandy one like the one at Effetre.

For those not familiar with the image that Domenico (aka Mike from Italy) is referring to here is a link to the photo in my website taken at the Effetre factory. This nice man was the only one in his chopping department who would allow to be photographed
http://www.ofiliaartglass.com/Murano_2004.htm just scroll down a bit.

Tua zia, Ofilia
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Last edited by Ofilia; 2008-12-04 at 2:09pm.
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  #11  
Old 2008-12-04, 2:32pm
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Hi zia

i am happy you are OK!!

I think it is not so difficult build an "automatic" Murrinu chopper...
just to "see"....!!

ciao ziaaaaaaa
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  #12  
Old 2008-12-04, 7:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefromitaly View Post
Hi zia

i am happy you are OK!!

I think it is not so difficult build an "automatic" Murrinu chopper...
just to "see"....!!

ciao ziaaaaaaa
Okay, Domenico... when you build one, you can make a spare one for Mike and he will be your best friend!

But seriously, those are very elaborate choppers the factory has and for the volume they sell precut, they would need it. They sell the bags of precut murrine at a significant mark up from the millefiori cane. The machines are a pulsing pneumatic type. Way overkill for a smaller operation.

A dopo !

Ofilia
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  #13  
Old 2008-12-05, 5:36am
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ciao zia...

do you think same chopper used to cut murrine is same to cut mosaic?

have a nice day

mike
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  #14  
Old 2008-12-05, 8:09am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikefromitaly View Post
ciao zia...

do you think same chopper used to cut murrine is same to cut mosaic?

have a nice day

mike

Yes, Domenico, that wheeled chopper is the same machine sold to Orsoni and Mosaici Dona for their cutting up the smalti.... it's perfect for that! It's easier on the wrists then having to use a hammer by all means.

Here is Roberto's description of it:

"The cut murrine machine is very expensive (€1200 with tungsten blades) because it's very precision machine and is very weight (near 40 Kg)."

He also went on to recommend buying it here in the States, through Spiral Arts, the link that Haley put up.

Ofilia
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  #15  
Old 2008-12-06, 12:39am
Lynn Burgess Lynn Burgess is offline
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I was interested in the murrini chopper and called Spiral Arts. They are out of them and expect to get more in around March or April. The cost for one is $2,900.00. I better start saving now or see if I can find someone to make one. Do you know if this makes a straight cut, or should I say better than nippers?
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  #16  
Old 2008-12-06, 5:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn Burgess View Post
I was interested in the murrini chopper and called Spiral Arts. They are out of them and expect to get more in around March or April. The cost for one is $2,900.00. I better start saving now or see if I can find someone to make one. Do you know if this makes a straight cut, or should I say better than nippers?
Hi Lynn! As I mentioned in my PM, we can get together some time, maybe at Portia's next time we both can meet for a common presentor, and I'll bring my Dona chopper. Just say when, and remind me.

It's definately not as big as the wheeled version, but it's good for my purposes at this time. Should I go more into mosaic work, this one would be awesome, though, the martello and hardie are just fine too. The big chopper is good for production chopping for speed and ease on the wrist. She is a purrdy one...

You know, I've said it many many times..... the money you can SAVE by shopping for your tools directly from Carlo Dona, can PAY for your FLIGHT!!! AND you get the bonus of visiting Murano, our glass Mecca!! (this is me nudging you, Lynn.... hint-hint!)

Ofilia
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  #17  
Old 2008-12-14, 7:47am
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Hey Mikey and Lynn! I found something interresting..... may not be the big machine like Effetre, or as sleek and precision as Dona, but it "says" it's designed for 'production' cutting .

http://www.delphiglass.com/index.cfm...emsysid=191497

Later,

Ofilia
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Last edited by Ofilia; 2008-12-14 at 7:50am.
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  #18  
Old 2008-12-14, 10:34am
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Ofilia,
You are positively a font!
Is there a corner of the glass industry (or Murano) you haven't explored?
If so, I am sure it will be covered in the next trip

Ciao Mike
Nice to see you around.
How is your glass work coming?

Elise
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  #19  
Old 2008-12-14, 11:07am
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Right now Delphi has one for sale(current sale catalog), electric...good for small murinnis..I ordered one that should be here later this week, I'll let you know how it works.
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  #20  
Old 2008-12-15, 3:41pm
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Hello everybody

Hi zia ofilia...
you are wondeful!! this seems a good tools

Firedesires,please let us know how it works,voltage,watt, maximum diameters it can break and if murrine lenght can be
choosed..

Pandora,
ciao
My glass works are slow at moment because people dont spend!!

I hope to be again together a lot in Muano Island with My zia Ofilia..

ciao
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  #21  
Old 2008-12-15, 4:39pm
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Hi Domenico,
It's fun chatting with Ofilia, isn't it. She knows so much. I hope to come to Murano sometime and will gladly try out your murrini chopper inventions.
ciao
Marcy
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  #22  
Old 2008-12-16, 2:32am
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Hi Mercy.
Nice to see here,too!!

Ofilia is a great woman !!!!

ciao ziaaaaaaaaaa!

domenico
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Old 2008-12-16, 5:59am
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.... all of you who know me.... know that when the subject is about Venice/Murano, I LOVE LOVE LOVE IT! And frankly, I have Mike Frantz to thank for being the one who made my initial trip to Murano attainable. Grazie mille, Mikey!

Domenico, the electric unit from Delphi has a guide (a bar) that shows you can slide in and out to adjust the distance to make repeated same size murrine. I'm curious too how it will work out. The price seems too good to be true. Clean, precise cutting is critical.

Marcy, you would LOVE going to Murano!

Ciao tutti!

Ofilia
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Last edited by Ofilia; 2008-12-16 at 6:22am.
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  #24  
Old 2008-12-28, 4:19am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FiredDesires View Post
Right now Delphi has one for sale(current sale catalog), electric...good for small murinnis..I ordered one that should be here later this week, I'll let you know how it works.
Hi firedesires,did you get your machine?

please tell us about

ciao

mike
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  #25  
Old 2008-12-28, 12:22pm
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Hi all! Just spotted this thread!! I use my diamond saw from DiamondTech for cutting my murrine -- it is awesome and can cut any size. Even hair-thin slices! (Well, if you haven't had too much coffee that morning!)

I recommend it highly! You can also cut shapes for stained glass work etc.

Ofilia: Did you have a chance to google "Benny Bufano" yet???

Best,
Lea
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Old 2008-12-28, 1:03pm
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hi

can you post the foto of your diamond saw from DiamondTech ?

i am interested to cut murrini slice from rods either small either big murrini..

I am thinking about pneumatuic cane cutter as used at Effetre


please help me

grazie
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Old 2008-12-28, 1:36pm
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I would be interested in seeing how much waste a saw produces vs. cutting the murrini! This is very interesting thread! Thank-you!
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Old 2008-12-28, 1:52pm
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Yes, yes I got the machine the other day in the mail. With the holidays and all, haven't tried it yet...but promise to go into studio today and slice some murrini with it and report back. I better be quick about it too, as the sale at Delphi ends on Dec. 31st, and this machine is on sale right now.
Offilia, sorry I hadn't read all the posts when I posted..I see you were talking about this too.

Lea! hi ya (Tuscon dinner buddy)! I too in the beginning used a mini cut-off saw to slice the murrinis...what happens is they are abbrated on both sides, forcing you to fire polish or flat lap polish the murrinis before placing in a design. If not, the clarity of the set murrini is below average...sometimes producing a kind of haze over the murrini...ick. So I'm hoping that I can cut a step out of the process of murrni work, for my paperweights I'll be developing later this year.
So I've bought this little machine to try out, it has wheels just like a wheel nipper and you push a button to activate the cut....both sides will be glossy, just like hand nipping them and I'm hoping beyond all...that I can just "set" them and not break out the lapidary wheels & polishing pads like we used in Lorens class in Loren II, course these particular murrinis are miniscule compared to the ones I created in Lorens studio.
Ok, I'll be back later with a report.
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  #29  
Old 2008-12-28, 2:59pm
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hi fired desired

Here what i have in mind:

1) i would like to cut Murrine rods ( maximum 10mm diameter) and try to cut my self as that ones sold from effetre-abot 6 mm long

2) i would like to cut Tronconi slice...but i suppose your machine isnt good then need to use a circular saw or similar...

waiting your report

grazie

domenico
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Old 2008-12-28, 3:08pm
Lea Zinke's Avatar
Lea Zinke Lea Zinke is offline
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Hi Catherine!

No, not the mini-cutoff saw (I use that for metal tubing).

The glass diamond blade saw -- it's specially made for cutting glass. You literally slice the murrini wafer thin with it and nothing needs to be fire-polished, it's a wonderful thing! I've had it probably 3 years now and use it almost every day!

Are you staying warm up there in the northernmost coldlands?

Best,
Lea
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