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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2014-05-12, 9:20am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 21, 2010
Location: Yorkshire, England
Posts: 27
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Is this devit and if so can I stop it?
Hi there, I'm hoping someone can offer me some advice. I have been using cim Ginger for the faces of some of my 'ladies what Lunch' beads. Occasionally it is pitting slightly and giving a mat finish. I'm working with a neutral to oxidising flame and using graphite tools.
Any thought, greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Gay x
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Gay
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2014-05-12, 11:01am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 22, 2005
Location: west of Atlanta, Georgia
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I don't know but that would be disheartening. Try contacting Cim people and see if it's a certain batch.
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2014-05-12, 12:00pm
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hyperT
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 582
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Devit looks almost like etched glass. It can happen from to much heating and cooling over and over, it can also happen from to much oxidation and the burning out of some of the base ingredients in the glass. But there is also a very curious thing that happens when glass is stored under fluorescent light, it has a tendency to break down the surface of the glass and it devitrifies almost immediately when it is heated. If it happens when you first heat the glass, then the factory or provider is exposing it to fluorescent light, and it is not your shortcoming. There is a chemical solution to surface breakdown, but I don't think it's worth going into all that.
If that is the case then enlighten them about it.
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2014-05-13, 10:21am
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Glass-aholic
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2007
Location: CT, tolland CT
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Got a pic?
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2014-05-13, 10:32am
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hyperT
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaci
Got a pic?
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A picture of what? If the glass was stored under fluorescent lighting for some time, It will look perfectly normal to the eye. You won't notice any difference until it is introduced into the fire, at that point it will devitrify on introduction to the heat, and you will see it. It is all but impossible to get it back to a normal state from there.
Make your own picture LOL. If you put it in the fire and it looks all pretty and cute, then you don't have that problem. If it looks frosted or etched then you do. As you know above all else it must look Cute!
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2014-05-13, 11:47am
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Glass-aholic
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Yea.. A pic of the finished bead with the divet... Not the process lol
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2014-05-13, 11:11pm
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 21, 2010
Location: Yorkshire, England
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I have got a better picture of it yesterday, not sure how to load pics on here, can I do it straight from my computer? Or do I need it hosted somewhere like Flickr for a BB code? Will try and post.
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Gay
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2014-05-13, 11:12pm
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Junior Member
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Thanks for responses so far - I do tend to use a neutral to oxidising flame, so that might explain it? X
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Gay
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2014-05-14, 5:10am
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Senior Member
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goto to "Post Reply" right under the last post, not the "Quick Rely".
Just to the right (under the "Smilies") there is an "Image Uploader" link.
-D
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2014-05-14, 5:35am
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Lampworkaholic!
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There is an easier way to post pictures. Go to Post Reply and use the little paper clip icon in the top area.
I've never had devit with Ginger. Maybe one of the colors you are using to decorate with is causing a reaction?
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"And all will turn to silver glass, a light on the water, grey ships pass into the west." Annie Lennox
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2014-05-14, 4:59pm
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Senior Member
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Glass stored under humid conditions over time will also develop surface chemistry which leads to devitrification. Time, temperature and relative humidity of the storage conditions all have a hand in the dealkylization process, none of which you can control yourself before you purchase the glass. (I've been running tests on this over the last year but haven't published it yet.) That is one reason for the 'bad batch' idea - a huge batch of glass will be distributed and each 'batch' from a single manufacturing run can stored under vastly different conditions. Some will become problematic 'bad batches' and some won't.
Robert
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Robert Simmons
(Former) Director for Bead Donations
Beads of Courage, Inc.
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2014-05-14, 5:38pm
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Nikki Haverstock
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Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RSimmons
Glass stored under humid conditions over time will also develop surface chemistry which leads to devitrification. Time, temperature and relative humidity of the storage conditions all have a hand in the dealkylization process, none of which you can control yourself before you purchase the glass. (I've been running tests on this over the last year but haven't published it yet.) That is one reason for the 'bad batch' idea - a huge batch of glass will be distributed and each 'batch' from a single manufacturing run can stored under vastly different conditions. Some will become problematic 'bad batches' and some won't.
Robert
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Please share with us when it is published.
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Nikki Haverstock
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2014-05-14, 11:15pm
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Naysayer
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wow, I never knew all this about storing glass. Interesting.
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2014-05-15, 4:52am
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Senior Member
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Location: London, UK
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Robert: that's fascinating!
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2014-05-15, 9:28am
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is this the case for borosilicate as well? my shop is lighted with floros.....
and do you have a reference by any chance? i've never heard of this...and Drew Fritts actually recomends using florescent lighting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperT
Devit looks almost like etched glass. It can happen from to much heating and cooling over and over, it can also happen from to much oxidation and the burning out of some of the base ingredients in the glass. But there is also a very curious thing that happens when glass is stored under fluorescent light, it has a tendency to break down the surface of the glass and it devitrifies almost immediately when it is heated. If it happens when you first heat the glass, then the factory or provider is exposing it to fluorescent light, and it is not your shortcoming. There is a chemical solution to surface breakdown, but I don't think it's worth going into all that.
If that is the case then enlighten them about it.
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now i've got a Mirage To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2014-05-15, 2:51pm
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Member
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fluorescent light devit
[quote=hyperT;4588977]But there is also a very curious thing that happens when glass is stored under fluorescent light, it has a tendency to break down the surface of the glass and it devitrifies almost immediately when it is heated. QUOTE]
I'd be interested to read more on this, can you provide a reference for it?
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2014-05-17, 1:11am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Aug 21, 2010
Location: Yorkshire, England
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Thank you for all the responses so far - I personally don't have flourescent lights but that's not to say the glass hasn't previously been stored near them. I also don't have humid conditions - I live in the North of England by the sea!
Here is hopefully a picture of the offending beads (fingers crossed)
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Gay
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2014-05-18, 8:36am
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Glass-aholic
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Yes that may be divit. I tend to get more divit with brass told so i think graphite is the way to go. It's the hot cold hot cold hot cold process that creates this with an over abundance of oxygen. When this happens to evil purple (256 edp) the solution is to work like it's not there and you don't care then when you are done heat it soupy -ish again in a flame with a little less oxy, cool it a bit out of the flame so it will go in the kiln as a solid and never put it back in the flame. I don't know if you could spot heat it to do this with the ginger or if that would just create rings of other divit on the edges. The trick in your beads will be leaving the details raised that you want. I suppose you could encase the ginger as well, and not have to worry about it.
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Minor 10lpm Oxy-Con + HH on Propylene . . . . . .
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To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. hand dyed silk ribbons in many colors!
WASHERS & TOPPERS - layering components for interchangeable glass topper and to use in other jewelry/metalwork.:
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2014-05-18, 11:44am
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hyperT
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 582
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Quote:
Originally Posted by istandalone24/7
is this the case for borosilicate as well? my shop is lighted with floros.....
and do you have a reference by any chance? i've never heard of this...and Drew Fritts actually recomends using florescent lighting.
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No boro is not effected by the lighting, mostly glasses with metals used as coloring agents or decolorizing agents are. Really it's not like it happens over night anyway. As stated humidity and atmosphere can effect the surface of the glass as well.
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2014-05-18, 2:34pm
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Mango Beads
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Join Date: Mar 18, 2006
Location: North Devon in the UK
Posts: 101
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Definitely a combination of the hot - cold - graphite - and possibly oxidising flame - although I think also perhaps the length of time you are working it in the flame - does this maybe happen on beads that you tend to work longer on ? the ones that perhaps just take a little longer to get right - the longer you work it some colours won't like it and perhaps CIM ginger is one ?
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Manda x
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2014-05-18, 6:39pm
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hyperT
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 582
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[quote=flame n fuse;4591189]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperT
But there is also a very curious thing that happens when glass is stored under fluorescent light, it has a tendency to break down the surface of the glass and it devitrifies almost immediately when it is heated. QUOTE]
I'd be interested to read more on this, can you provide a reference for it?
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Well this has been passed down in my family for a long time now.
You can read more about it in James E. Hammesfahr's book
"Creative Glass Blowing Scientific and Ornamental". If you can find it.
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2014-05-18, 7:13pm
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hyperT
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 582
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Ok so back in the day. The American glass companies stopped making soft glass tubing and rod due to so few of us left in the US to bother with (About 6 of us in all). They still were making clear soft glass for the science end of things since it was being used in laboratory glassware. Colored Glass Lampwork really was coming very close to being a lost art in this country. The younger crowd were going to Pyrex due to it's stability. At that time Corning was making about 6 colors of Pyrex, A rather limited selection. Don't you think?
Thank God for the resurgence of interest in the soft glasses. I am 70 years, old now and started blowing glass at 9 years old as an apprentice in my family. The things I learned were handed down to me from a few generations prior to that.
Anyway, I was at that time the youngest of the bunch still doing colored glass. I decided to track down sources outside of the US and began to buy rod and tubing from a company in Germany. Ernst Shiebler Glass in Munich. The glass was extraordinary.
Designed to perfectly resemble gem stones for artificial gem stone production. It is so sad to have to tell you that this company no longer exists. I hope you don't feel the kind of disappointment I did when Corning and all the others stopped making their colored soft glass.
Make a bird with clear glass and you have a clear glass bird. Make one with black, gray and white and you have a Black Capped Chickadee, there was then and still is a vast difference to me.
I still have some Shiebler glass laying around and no I won't part with it. Some of it has been altered on the surface either by atmosphere or lighting. If you don't believe it, run the risk. Would it really hurt to throw a towel over it to protect it? I'm not talking about glass you are going to use up in a few months but glass you want to keep for years. Shiebler Ruby Red was just that and Gold was the coloring agent used to make it. If you are going to work on some beads in the morning I wouldn't worry about rushing right out there in the chance that the surface has broken down.
Mainly just have fun.
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2014-05-20, 5:55am
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hyperT
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Join Date: Jan 31, 2013
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 582
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There is one other curious event that can happen too. If the glass is at a certain temp in the cooling stage and is twisted slightly it will take on an etched appearance. This one can be easily fire polished out.
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