Observation About Tutorials

[emoon]

Originally Posted by Kalera

Cat, you should link to your tuts in your sig... for those of us who might want to buy those recipes. Just sayin'...

A most excellent suggestion. I do still buy tutorials, y'all...

[chrissij]

I'm gonna' bitch if the next one I purchase doesn't come complete with:

1) spare time, and
2) motivation.

[emoon]

lololol!!

[Lea Zinke]

ChrissyJ, don't forget:

(3) Instant success.

LOL,
Lea

[chrissij]

Sh*t, you're right. You don't think that'd be asking too much? I don't wanna' seem pushy or anything...

[Kalera]

I want to clarify; I don't normally buy tutorials simply because I don't care for e-books. That's just a personal preference, not a condemnation of e-books. I am still hoping some tutorial authors will get together and make a unified large volume, which I would love to have on my shelf as a reference book. I even think that odds are good that if several people put something together and approached a publisher about it, they might accept it. It would mean less money per sale, but potentially a wider audience and a great deal more exposure, and might be a fantastic way to revive older tutorials that aren't selling well anymore anyway.

Since the outstanding success of several books that were initially published online, publishers are getting less leery of material which has been previously distributed on the Internet.

[emoon]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I want to clarify; I don't normally buy tutorials simply because I don't care for e-books. That's just a personal preference, not a condemnation of e-books. I am still hoping some tutorial authors will get together and make a unified large volume, which I would love to have on my shelf as a reference book. I even think that odds are good that if several people put something together and approached a publisher about it, they might accept it. It would mean less money per sale, but potentially a wider audience and a great deal more exposure, and might be a fantastic way to revive older tutorials that aren't selling well anymore anyway.

Since the outstanding success of several books that were initially published online, publishers are getting less leery of material which has been previously distributed on the Internet.

I think this is a great idea!!

[Hayley]

I have written one tutorial (on shaping bicones using a basic but interesting technique with a bit of silver glass thrown in) and five compilation eBooks. For the SE eBooks, I price them according to how many pages/beads are in each (SE5 is almost 100 pages, thus priced higher than the rest). The SE eBooks take weeks to put together . . .

All of the SE eBooks (except for SE1) are available as printed bound books at lulu.com. I figure that by the time you take the time and effort to print a pdf copy out . . . combined that with the cost of ink/toner, some may elect to just purchase a physical bound book. Moreover, with the bound books, you can resell them! Curiously I haven't sold that many bound books . . .

[Kalera]

Originally Posted by Hayley

I have written one tutorial (on shaping bicones using a basic but interesting technique with a bit of silver glass thrown in) and five compilation eBooks. For the SE eBooks, I price them according to how many pages/beads are in each (SE5 is almost 100 pages, thus priced higher than the rest). The SE eBooks take weeks to put together . . .

All of the SE eBooks (except for SE1) are available as printed bound books at lulu.com. I figure that by the time you take the time and effort to print a pdf copy out . . . combined that with the cost of ink/toner, some may elect to just purchase a physical bound book. Moreover, with the bound books, you can resell them! Curiously I haven't sold that many bound books . . .

I didn't even know you offered them! I don't use that much silver glass so I'm unlikely to want them for myself, but I might want them for reference or for eye candy.

[emoon]

I like the option. I didn't know about the bound books, and I do have one of your earlier se books. Looks like you have covered every base! Hayley, can you share what the upfront cost is with Lulu for those who are interested?

Thanks

[J. Savina]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I am still hoping some tutorial authors will get together and make a unified large volume, which I would love to have on my shelf as a reference book. I even think that odds are good that if several people put something together and approached a publisher about it, they might accept it. It would mean less money per sale, but potentially a wider audience and a great deal more exposure, and might be a fantastic way to revive older tutorials that aren't selling well anymore anyway.

K,
You just gave me an idea. I was offering my Kumihimo Tut as a 25 page bound booklet. I was doing the printing and binding of it in my studio. Then my color laser printer broke down and I haven't got it fixed yet, so I'm holding off on listing it as a printed booklet. But when I do get my laser printer fixed, I think I'm going to print and bind 2 different booklets. One on lampworking, and one on jewelry. Oh what treasures I would hold in my hands then, aye?


J.

[Kalera]

Originally Posted by J. Savina

K,
You just gave me an idea. I was offering my Kumihimo Tut as a 25 page bound booklet. I was doing the printing and binding of it in my studio. Then my color laser printer broke down and I haven't got it fixed yet, so I'm holding off on listing it as a printed booklet. But when I do get my laser printer fixed, I think I'm going to print and bind 2 different booklets. One on lampworking, and one on jewelry. Oh what treasures I would hold in my hands then, aye?


J.

I love it!

[Moth]

I believe my tutorials are priced fairly. I offer them through LULU as well but it increases the price. Lulu charges something like $11 (if you include the additional shipping to me) to print each one but I thought that price was too high so I knocked a few dollars off of my profit so that people who want a printed, bound book would still be able to afford mine. Lulu's printing cost added to my jellyfish tutorial makes the price $29 that I thought was too high so I reduced my profit. I did everything I could to make people happy.

I paid $75 for Passing the Flame. I would have paid even more for a book that was all full of personally chosen lessons that I got to pick a la carte. A book full of ONLY what I wanted. Just like your binder full of hand chosen in-depth lessons on topics you were specifically interested in.

I never had a problem with people buying gift tutorials and I don't know of anyone else who did either. Buying a copy for yourself and then forwarding it to three of your friends is not the same as purchasing a gift for someone. LOL It's like buying an MP3 and then forwarding it to all your friends. You just stole from the seller, that's all. Seems pretty simple to me.

I haven't heard anyone say not to talk about skills learned from tutorials.

I think if you care about the author and respect them at all, you would be considerate of their feelings and their sales--but nobody can force you to do that. I know I'd appreciate it if nobody posted a free tutorial here at LE about how I specifically do my jellyfish beads but that is not only protecting ME. It is also protecting the people who actually PAID for the information.

The only real stink I've seen over sharing stuff or discussing tutorials openly came from buyers! People who were irritated that they paid money to learn something and then people were handing it around for free. That's not fair to anyone. I actually had buyers irritated with me for answering questions out in the open because people who didn't pay for the tutorial were getting clues.

Someone in this thread mentioned waiting for tutorials to go on sale before purchasing them. I think that is great. But I've heard others say that authors reducing the price of their tutorials really irritates them. They felt cheated that they paid more just because they were keen on getting it in a hurry. I call foul on that because everything in the market is that way. I buy milk for $4.00...the next day it goes on sale for $1.99...I think 'darn it'...but it doesn't change anything. Or the sofa I bought and two months later it was $400 less. You can't hold sales or price reductions against tutorial authors. Trust me- if I'm having a sale it's because I'm in trouble and need money- it's not because I'm trying to screw anyone over.

We are all peers here. We are supposed to be friendly and supportive of each other.

And yes---I did too sell my very best secret and design for $18. I didn't save the good stuff and sell off the lesser information. I'm not out for a quick buck at your expense. My tutorials are good, I deserve what I've profited from them and I stand behind them. They are a way for me to teach without having to leave my family. They are a way for other people to learn without having to leave their families.

I'm sorry, but no. I don't think anyone's tutorials are over priced. Only the seller can value their efforts, knowledge and personal investment. Only the buyer can choose whether it is worth it to them.

~~Mary

[patienthand]

well said Mary!!!!

[emoon]

That was very well put Mary. The concise clear explanation that you offer, as well as Kalera's and several others was exactly why I began this thread. I need to hear the whys of things sometimes. Your explanation helps me to understand, and I appreciate that. I will be more selective of the parts I print and bind!!

Doesn't anyone remember about a year ago or so when I started a thread, (could have been on WetCanvas) discussing the rules about sharing and selling tutorials? That was when someone responded to me that a person had bought several tutorials to give as Secret Santa gifts and was taken to task by the seller and the rank and file. I didn't get into names, so the specifics were never mentioned. That was the issue then, and the instance to which I was referring. And yes, honest to God, I have a tutorial that requests that I, as the buyer, do not share any tips found within the tute, and refer any questions about the technique back to the seller. Again, I don't share names, so I won't get any more detailed than this, but I assure you, the instances I cited were not apocryphal (sp).

Alot of you have been very kind in explaining your stance and I have a much better idea of what it must take to create a tutorial. I meant no disrespect.

[Kevan]

When we made our goddess bead tut it was hours of writing, editing, taking photos, editing photos, screwing around with Word, which is a bitch of it's own. Then we filmed a video, edited the video and voiced it over. It was a lot of work. I don't think $18 is over charging for that work.

I don't think people who have never written a tutorial have any idea how much work goes into it. I've seen some tuts that aren't very long and don't look like they take much work to put together, but the writer has also put in possibly years in developing the techniques they use, also. That is part of the work you are paying for.

[AKDesigns]

Originally Posted by emoon

Doesn't anyone remember about a year ago or so when I started a thread, (could have been on WetCanvas) discussing the rules about sharing and selling tutorials? That was when someone responded to me that a person had bought several tutorials to give as Secret Santa gifts and was taken to task by the seller and the rank and file. I didn't get into names, so the specifics were never mentioned. That was the issue then, and the instance to which I was referring.

If you are talking about the Secret Santa fiasco of a couple of years ago...someone was just sending her tutorials off to others as gifts without paying for them. In other words, she didn't contact the tutorial writer and purchase a tutorial for "Trudy" and ask that it get emailed to her. Instead she took tutorials she had purchased for herself and emailed them off to several other people. She never purchased them to give as gifts.

[Hayley]

Originally Posted by Kalera

I didn't even know you offered them! I don't use that much silver glass so I'm unlikely to want them for myself, but I might want them for reference or for eye candy.

It sure is a great inspiration book for eye candy, Kalera. I think SE5 has 268 beads!

Originally Posted by emoon

I like the option. I didn't know about the bound books, and I do have one of your earlier se books. Looks like you have covered every base! Hayley, can you share what the upfront cost is with Lulu for those who are interested?

Thanks

The cost is dependent on the number of pages. We then add our markup which equals the value of the pdf of that particular SE. Lulu then adds a fee based on the percentage of our markup. It's not inexpensive (especially since the SEs are big books) but if you factor in the ink/toner cost to print a hundred pages on your home inkjet printer in high resolution, it's worth it, imho. And as mentioned before, unlike its pdf counter part, since it's a book, you can resell it.

ETA: For tutorial authors, please note that the distribution of the revenue earned from lulu.com is done something like 45 days after each quarter ends. So if a book is sold, say, last week which is the beginning of Q4, you won't get your money from lulu until mid February of next year!

[Kevan]

Originally Posted by Hayley

It sure is a great inspiration book for eye candy, Kalera. I think SE5 has 268 beads!



The cost is dependent on the number of pages. We then add our markup which equals the value of the pdf of that particular SE. Lulu then adds a fee based on the percentage of our markup. It's not inexpensive (especially since the SEs are big books) but if you factor in the ink/toner cost to print a hundred pages on your home inkjet printer in high resolution, it's worth it, imho. And as mentioned before, unlike its pdf counter part, since it's a book, you can resell it.

ETA: For tutorial authors, please note that the distribution of the revenue earned from lulu.com is done something like 45 days after each quarter ends. So if a book is sold, say, last week which is the beginning of Q4, you won't get your money from lulu until mid February of next year!

We'll print and sell your book if you let us use your money, interest free, for months!!! What a racket.

[janetcameron]

For me, the tutorials are a way to learn a specific technique or bead style - and they often include other tricks that I didn't know - without spending a lot of money for a class. I think they are worth the cost, but everyone has to make their own decision about this.

[patienthand]

I know other tut writers do not feel the same as I do, but here is my personal take on what I think is fair usage.... I dont mind if you make a personal printed copy for your own usage. I dont care if you learn the technique from me and then teach another. I dont mind if the gals come over to play and you show them the tutorial, although I dont personally do that with the tuts I own, because some folks have asked that not be done. What I do mind and think is stealing is if you transfer a copy of the tut to another person by email, flash drive, a printed copy etc etc. I dont mind if you make and sell items learned in my tut, more power to you,there is room for everyone to make a buck. I no longer earn my living from glass, but even when I worked full time I could NEVER make enough ornaments to fill the orders I had at christmas season. I think if I have sold the information, taught someone, they paid for learning how to make that item and have a perfect right to sell the hell out of the items they make using the information they learned from me.

[Moth]

Originally Posted by emoon

That was very well put Mary. The concise clear explanation that you offer, as well as Kalera's and several others was exactly why I began this thread.

Thank you- I'm trying to be more level-headed when I respond to these tutorial threads. Sometimes it is hard to have to keep defending myself, but I just have to remember that people who haven't actually made a tutorial don't really know what it's like to be on that end of the stick.

Doesn't anyone remember about a year ago or so when I started a thread, (could have been on WetCanvas) discussing the rules about sharing and selling tutorials? That was when someone responded to me that a person had bought several tutorials to give as Secret Santa gifts and was taken to task by the seller and the rank and file.

Oh, yes. I absolutely remember that. And that person was NOT buying gift tutorials. They bought one copy and freely sent it around to people on the secret santa list. Basically they gave away hundreds of dollars worth of tutorials and it only cost them the original single purchase. If she had bought my jellyfish for $18 and then sent it to 10 people who had my tutorial on their wish list- they basically cost ME $180. That is not the same as purchasing gifts for others. There were many other people who did it legitimately. They purchased tutorials, contacted the sellers with the email address of the person they wanted the tutorial delivered to and that was the right way to do it.


I didn't get into names, so the specifics were never mentioned. That was the issue then, and the instance to which I was referring. And yes, honest to God, I have a tutorial that requests that I, as the buyer, do not share any tips found within the tute, and refer any questions about the technique back to the seller. Again, I don't share names, so I won't get any more detailed than this, but I assure you, the instances I cited were not apocryphal (sp).

I still don't feel like that request is unreasonable UNLESS---the tutorial is about a topic that is so generic you could find the information for free somewhere else. Like if you bought a tutorial on how to make stacked dot beads- you purchased it to get a specific person's input on dot beads, but the process itself is generally known and easily found elsewhere. A person can't be proprietary about that. My guess is that the tutorial you are referring to is NOT something generic and protecting the seller and the other buyers who actually paid is not unreasonable. I don't understand why you would take issue with that. Someone sells you a secret, asks you not to tell it around and that feels wrong? I don't get that.

Alot of you have been very kind in explaining your stance and I have a much better idea of what it must take to create a tutorial. I meant no disrespect.


I guess I just feel like electronic data is not for everyone. Some people really love to have a solid book in their hands and that is great. I love books too. (Like some people LOVE audio books and I can't stand them.) I think tutorials fill a niche. For a nominal investment you can learn targeted skills. No- you can't resell them, but so what? If you learned what you paid to learn then you got your money's worth and should be happy. If you DIDN'T learn what you thought you were going to learn- now THAT'S a problem and should be brought directly to the tutorial author. They should be willing to do what it takes to satisfy the buyers. If you are sitting there with a binder full of tutorials that you are sorry you paid for, then I'd say you need to be pickier about the ones you buy.

~~Mary

[emoon]

Originally Posted by AKDesigns

If you are talking about the Secret Santa fiasco of a couple of years ago...someone was just sending her tutorials off to others as gifts without paying for them. In other words, she didn't contact the tutorial writer and purchase a tutorial for "Trudy" and ask that it get emailed to her. Instead she took tutorials she had purchased for herself and emailed them off to several other people. She never purchased them to give as gifts.

Oh. that wasn't how it was presented to me, but of course things get altered from time to time. I understand how that could be a problem.

[emoon]

I guess I just feel like electronic data is not for everyone. Some people really love to have a solid book in their hands and that is great. I love books too. (Like some people LOVE audio books and I can't stand them.) I think tutorials fill a niche. For a nominal investment you can learn targeted skills. No- you can't resell them, but so what? If you learned what you paid to learn then you got your money's worth and should be happy. If you DIDN'T learn what you thought you were going to learn- now THAT'S a problem and should be brought directly to the tutorial author. They should be willing to do what it takes to satisfy the buyers. If you are sitting there with a binder full of tutorials that you are sorry you paid for, then I'd say you need to be pickier about the ones you buy.

Mary, Somehow we came to this topic throught the backdoor. In the beginning post I said clearly that I love my tutorials. I like learning from them and as I can't afford the travel and class thing, it works for me. Read the opening post again. I just think/thought that tutes that are getting up to $30 are pricey because of the home publishing factor. I guess I thought everyone bound theirs like me. I am still going to buy tutorials, from time to time. I just won't print and bind them all! I am not, repeat NOT saying I am sitting here with a binder full of tutorials that I regret owning. That was not and never has been the subject of this thread. And I live for me audiobooks!!!

[Polgarra]

I have a question/comment about the part regarding 'Not discussing' the information. I would say that putting the information in an online 'discussion' is different than a verbal 'discussion'. An online discussion can be open to anyone as long as the post exists. It acts like its own tutorial. If I wrote a tutorial I would feel differently about those two types of discussions. Do you think that is what they could mean? Or maybe some tutorial writers could clarify how they feel?


PatientHand, Thank you for the clarification on your position which I think it totally reasonable.

[Moth]

Melodie, ok I understand. I guess I just got a feeling that you were looking at your binder and taking a mental tally. Like if you have 15 tutorials in there, at (round number) $20 each...that book DID cost a pretty penny. LOL I know you liked all the tutorials you bought, but that you think all combined the price was higher than what they are worth. I guess that is where I got my idea that you were sorry you purchased some of them. Maybe it isn't that you need to be picky about which ones you buy---just which pages you print. LOL

There have been several mentions (in other threads) about offering a new format for the digital tutorials that have one or two 'for print' pages that have shortened text and images of tricky steps that can be used AT the torch and don't take up as much table space or ink/paper to print. I think it's a wonderful idea. Offer the full length tutorial for reading and learning- then have a quicky printable sheet with the major points featured. It would be both economical AND practical. It would help with your issue immensely. I hope we start seeing that a lot with new tutorials.

~~Mary

[Hayley]

Originally Posted by Kevan

We'll print and sell your book if you let us use your money, interest free, for months!!! What a racket.

You can elect the monthly option via PayPal with all your tax information submitted to lulu. This option's lag time is about 30 days. I opted for the paper option (check by mail) so I don't have to submit any tax info and paypal fees (doubt lulu will send the money as "personal").

[Kalera]

Originally Posted by Polgarra

I have a question/comment about the part regarding 'Not discussing' the information. I would say that putting the information in an online 'discussion' is different than a verbal 'discussion'. An online discussion can be open to anyone as long as the post exists. It acts like its own tutorial. If I wrote a tutorial I would feel differently about those two types of discussions. Do you think that is what they could mean? Or maybe some tutorial writers could clarify how they feel?


PatientHand, Thank you for the clarification on your position which I think it totally reasonable.

I think this is completely reasonable to ask buyers not to discuss the contents of a tut online when it's something really unique and proprietary. Where I have an issue with it is when someone asks a question about using a particular glass or achieving a particular look that is something many people have come up with on their own, sometimes even before the tutorial author began lampworking, and someone in the thread automatically refers the questioner to the tut. There's a definite sense that it would be gauche for anyone to answer the question after that, and also I think a bit of fear that they will be accused of "not supporting the community" or of depriving the tut author of income, if they answer the question. I feel like this is wrong, and that people who worked out a look or technique on their own, independently, should feel free to answer questions about it if they want to, even if someone else wrote a tut on a similar look or technique. I don't mean it's OK to reverse-engineer someone's design and then telling everyone how to do it, just to be clear. More like, if someone wrote a tut on faceting, would it then be wrong for Andrea (who taught me and has been faceting for ages) or for me, or any of the people who have been faceting beads for a long time, to answer questions about faceting? I certainly don't think so. Yet, there has come to be a bit of a sense that whoever writes a tutorial on a particular subject or technique then "owns" the right to field all questions on that subject. That is neither right nor fair to the lampworking community and all of us within it who have spent decades learning and sharing.

[emoon]

Mary,

I agree with you! A printable page would be most excellent. And I, in all honesty, have to admit that one or two of the tutorials I bought, I am sorry for, but not as much as the $80 skinny jeans in my closet that I can no longer sqeeze into!! Sometimes a tutorial sounds like it may have a process that I want to know, and I impulsively jump in. My problem, no one elses!!


But printing only essentials would be great!! I stopped printing the cover and Inspiration pages. As pretty as they are, I just have to enjoy them on the computer. I have begun to reformat pages, keeping only the photos I think I need, and eliminating unecessary spaces, page returns, etc. They aren't as pretty to look at, but cut way back on my ink costs. I also have a new printer that duplexes the pages so I have cut back on paper by half. I feel so green! Anyway, with all the changes, I put in, sometimes I just feel that I wish I could just buy a book!!! THAT's what started this whole thing. but, because the boundaries shift on proper tutorial etiquette I think it is a very hot button for alot of people, and that's why I think the discussions have merit.

My skin is pretty thick, but sometimes when the hair on my arms starts to singe, I get a bit defensive. Sorry if I snapped at you! I really do value your input! I hope that the suggestions of "print pages", Lulu publishing, etc. will be read by those who are just now creating new tutorials!!

It is torch time! See you later!!

Originally Posted by Moth

Melodie, ok I understand. I guess I just got a feeling that you were looking at your binder and taking a mental tally. Like if you have 15 tutorials in there, at (round number) $20 each...that book DID cost a pretty penny. LOL I know you liked all the tutorials you bought, but that you think all combined the price was higher than what they are worth. I guess that is where I got my idea that you were sorry you purchased some of them. Maybe it isn't that you need to be picky about which ones you buy---just which pages you print. LOL

There have been several mentions (in other threads) about offering a new format for the digital tutorials that have one or two 'for print' pages that have shortened text and images of tricky steps that can be used AT the torch and don't take up as much table space or ink/paper to print. I think it's a wonderful idea. Offer the full length tutorial for reading and learning- then have a quicky printable sheet with the major points featured. It would be both economical AND practical. It would help with your issue immensely. I hope we start seeing that a lot with new tutorials.

~~Mary

[emoon]

Wow, on re-reading my above message, I realize that I am seriously in the habit of over-using the exclaimation point. Note to self!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!