Official Thread: Tink Electroforming Kits Q & A

[Tink]

Melissa, are you dipping the work in a supersaturated salt water solution first?

[glass_beads]

Originally Posted by Tink

Melissa, are you dipping the work in a supersaturated salt water solution first?

Bwahaha...why, I do declare, I never wrote that part of the instructions down. Hahaha. I knew I must be missing some crucial step! Thank you Tink. I will try that with the bead I took outta the soup last night. Wish me luck!

[JanMD]

New pic of a Kim V. work, from another thread: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...&postcount=240

Love the patina! Very lush!

More from Kim V. --> http://www.kimvglass.com/catalog.php?category=20

JanMD

[Zlata]

Wow ! I'm glad I read this thread. I received my kit from Tink more than a couple of weeks ago -maybe not much more. Haven't started using it yet because of a fragmented summer schedule. Now I'l be sure not to underestimate the details of the job. Thank you everyone - congratulations on all of the beautiful work.

[Zulekah]

Hi There! I just looked at your vessels, Tink, and they are beautiful!! I hope to take one of your classes one day.

I am very interested in learning electroforming, but when I went to your site I couldn't see any offers of these kits. How do I purchase one?

Thanks a lot

[JanMD]

Zulekah -- Here's Tink's kit: http://blackswampglassworks.com/eform.htm

If you'd like to learn more about e-forming, there are some more links here: http://sgb-midatlantic.org/how-tos.html#Electroforming

Enjoy!!!

JanMD

[Tink]

PMed you...

[Kim V]

Wow, Jan, you just made my day! Thanks for noticing!

I have an arrangement with my DD where she does some of the write ups for my beads (a way for her to "earn" some money while she is jobhunting). Those without descriptions are awaiting her golden pen She has promised me tomorrow....we'll see
Kim V

Originally Posted by JanMD

New pic of a Kim V. work, from another thread: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...&postcount=240

Love the patina! Very lush!

More from Kim V. --> http://www.kimvglass.com/catalog.php?category=20

JanMD

[lampworker1]

I have been visiting this site for several months. I am very new at beadmaking and I am thoroughly in love with it. I just want to thank all of you for your questions, comments, support and inspiration!! The generosity is fabulous.

[JanMD]

Here is an absolutely wonderful and magical e-formed object by Jen Geldard. It absolutely HAS to be included in this thread: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...42&postcount=1 Bravo, Jen!!! I'd scream with delight too, by jiminy.

And here is another from Jen that MUST be in this thread: http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...53&postcount=6

JanMD

[VivianLampwork]

I finally got back to my electroforming kit & gave it another go.

[KathyB]

ok my darlings.... I need help!

I just fired up my stuff again. The first one came out crumbly. The copper on the bead was very tiny crumbles and I could rub it off.

Did I go to fast and to high? I started out at 1amp for 3 hours then down to .5 amps for another 9 hours.

I did another after that and started out a .5 amp and it came out better (smoother)

[Tink]

Kathy, personally I never even go as high as .5 amps. It's my opinion that even if you want a bumpier, more gnarly look that you should lay down a very slowly applied layer first. As a foundation.

If you're going for a smooth look, then try cutting the amperage back to about .3 --- See how that goes.

[KathyB]

Geez... that's how I cook food too. Higher must be better. (my was-band said he could tell dinner was done when the smoke alarm went off)

Ok- lower it is!

[Renee]

Hi Tink! I received my kit, and yesterday the "mad scientist" set everything up and started to eform my first piece. Ooohhhhh, everything was working wonderfully! I went to check on it after 30 minutes, and we won't discuss that I forgot a primary step: etching the bead! Okay, bead #2 is in the soup, having been etched, painted, and allowed to dry overnight. So far, so good!

In the meantime, there were some questions that came to mind.
- When I pull my bead out of the soup for inspection, I turn the amps to 0, turn the rectifier off, and unclip the black lead. I don't touch anything while the rectifier is on, but it wouldn't be of harm if I did, would it?
- Concerning the distilled water, when you say to wash and rinse the beaker in the distilled water, are you saying to put a sudsy beaker into the distilled water? Initially, I washed and rinsed it in tap water, dried it, then rinsed it in the distilled water. My concern is contaminating the distilled water.
- Can the anodes and copper wire be kept in the distilled water when not in use? My thought was that it would keep the copper from becoming dirty and contaminated.
- I have a tendency to be overly cautious. After the bead has been etched and cleaned for painting, I only handle it wearing gloves. I understand the importance of doing this. However, I also don't handle the copper during and after wiping it with the green scrubby. Am I going overboard with this?
- How do you clean the paint brush? I've been "washing" it in the distilled water (just water, no soap). Is that sufficient?
- If I want to add an existing element that has already been eformed to a bead that's about to be eformed, what's going to happen to the previously eformed element? Will it lose it's copper, gain copper, or remain unchanged? My objective is for it to remain unchanged.
- I painted a bead with the eform paint, let it dry thoroughly (8 hrs), and plunked it in the soup. Part of the design included some swirls that branched out. These are raising off the surface of the bead. Do you know why?
- I just let in Tory (my adorable husky) and she wanted to ask you a question, too. So, she licked the keyboard (ewww!) to ask you this: ewwseqeawswqe2 (lol)!

Sorry for so many questions, but inquiring minds want to know ...
Thanks, Tink! The booklet is very well written, easy to follow, and very professionally presented! I appreciate you putting this all together.

[Janelle Zorko]

Renee,

I don't know if Tink has been too busy to answer your questions (or maybe she did it via PM, but I can try):

First, you don't have to etch a bead to electroform it - most of mine are not etched but it helps the paint to adhere to the surface.

> - When I pull my bead out of the soup for inspection, I turn the amps to 0, turn the rectifier off, and unclip the black lead. I don't touch anything while the rectifier is on, but it wouldn't be of harm if I did, would it?

There is so little electricity coming out of the rectifier that it's unlikely it'll cause any problems if you touched it but you are doing all the right things for safety!

> - Concerning the distilled water, when you say to wash and rinse the beaker in the distilled water, are you saying to put a sudsy beaker into the distilled water? Initially, I washed and rinsed it in tap water, dried it, then rinsed it in the distilled water. My concern is contaminating the distilled water.

I never "reuse" the distilled water. If you are going to, I'd say you're doing it the right way. I just rinse and wash my beaker in tap water and thoroughly dry it with paper towels or a cloth towel, before letting it air dry too. I guess I skip the distilled water for this part.

> - Can the anodes and copper wire be kept in the distilled water when not in use? My thought was that it would keep the copper from becoming dirty and contaminated.

They can, but I don't think it's necessary. The worst that will happen if you take your wire and anodes out of the solution and rinse them off and dry them, is that they'll oxidize and you'll just scrub them up quickly with the green scrubby before using them again. I recommend scrubbing up the anodes before you use them anyway.

> - I have a tendency to be overly cautious. After the bead has been etched and cleaned for painting, I only handle it wearing gloves. I understand the importance of doing this. However, I also don't handle the copper during and after wiping it with the green scrubby. Am I going overboard with this?

Maybe . The main reason for this is so as not to get oils from your hands on the bead or anodes. If your hands are clean, this shouldn't be an issue.

> - How do you clean the paint brush? I've been "washing" it in the distilled water (just water, no soap). Is that sufficient?

Believe it or not, I never clean the paint brush. I wipe off the excess and when the paint is dry, it just flakes off the brush anyway so I just bend it around a bit and it becomes pliable and useable again.

> - If I want to add an existing element that has already been eformed to a bead that's about to be eformed, what's going to happen to the previously eformed element? Will it lose it's copper, gain copper, or remain unchanged? My objective is for it to remain unchanged.

It all depends on if it's part of the same "circuit" you created in the first electroforming. If the new element is somehow connected to the old copper, it will likely grow. If it's on a new part of the bead and isn't touching the older metal, you should be fine. You could actually try lacquering the old element but keep in mind, you have to create a circuit with the new element for electroforming to occur.

> - I painted a bead with the eform paint, let it dry thoroughly (8 hrs), and plunked it in the soup. Part of the design included some swirls that branched out. These are raising off the surface of the bead. Do you know why?

This just happens sometimes. Take the bead out and bend the newly formed copper toward the bead and put back in. Sometimes I'll do this and put more paint under the raised part and it will thicken and lay down better.

Can't help you on that last one. I was just telling my cats this morning that I wish that I could speak their language - would make things so much easier in this household!

Janelle

Originally Posted by Renee

Hi Tink! I received my kit, and yesterday the "mad scientist" set everything up and started to eform my first piece. Ooohhhhh, everything was working wonderfully! I went to check on it after 30 minutes, and we won't discuss that I forgot a primary step: etching the bead! Okay, bead #2 is in the soup, having been etched, painted, and allowed to dry overnight. So far, so good!

In the meantime, there were some questions that came to mind.
- When I pull my bead out of the soup for inspection, I turn the amps to 0, turn the rectifier off, and unclip the black lead. I don't touch anything while the rectifier is on, but it wouldn't be of harm if I did, would it?
- Concerning the distilled water, when you say to wash and rinse the beaker in the distilled water, are you saying to put a sudsy beaker into the distilled water? Initially, I washed and rinsed it in tap water, dried it, then rinsed it in the distilled water. My concern is contaminating the distilled water.
- Can the anodes and copper wire be kept in the distilled water when not in use? My thought was that it would keep the copper from becoming dirty and contaminated.
- I have a tendency to be overly cautious. After the bead has been etched and cleaned for painting, I only handle it wearing gloves. I understand the importance of doing this. However, I also don't handle the copper during and after wiping it with the green scrubby. Am I going overboard with this?
- How do you clean the paint brush? I've been "washing" it in the distilled water (just water, no soap). Is that sufficient?
- If I want to add an existing element that has already been eformed to a bead that's about to be eformed, what's going to happen to the previously eformed element? Will it lose it's copper, gain copper, or remain unchanged? My objective is for it to remain unchanged.
- I painted a bead with the eform paint, let it dry thoroughly (8 hrs), and plunked it in the soup. Part of the design included some swirls that branched out. These are raising off the surface of the bead. Do you know why?
- I just let in Tory (my adorable husky) and she wanted to ask you a question, too. So, she licked the keyboard (ewww!) to ask you this: ewwseqeawswqe2 (lol)!

Sorry for so many questions, but inquiring minds want to know ...
Thanks, Tink! The booklet is very well written, easy to follow, and very professionally presented! I appreciate you putting this all together.

[Tink]

Sorry guys. I answered these questions via email on the 12th. Meant to copy it over here, too, but I forgot. Thanks for the reminder, Janelle.

-When I pull my bead out of the soup for inspection, I turn the amps to 0, turn the rectifier off, and unclip the black lead. I don't touch anything while the rectifier is on, but it wouldn't be of harm if I did, would it?

It’s just good, safe shop practice. Electroforming is very safe, electrically. But I do keep touching and bumping to a minimum primarily to keep from messing up my contacts/circuit with oil from the skin and other ickies.

- Concerning the distilled water, when you say to wash and rinse the beaker in the distilled water, are you saying to put a sudsy beaker into the distilled water? Initially, I washed and rinsed it in tap water, dried it, then rinsed it in the distilled water. My concern is contaminating the distilled water.

I just wash in distilled water. I don’t use soap. It’s best to not use tap water for any part of the process as it can leave deposits that you can’t see.

- Can the anodes and copper wire be kept in the distilled water when not in use? My thought was that it would keep the copper from becoming dirty and contaminated.

Hmmm… I don’t know. I never thought about it. I take mine out, wash them in distilled water, dry them and keep them in a Ziplok bag. You can try it: Let me know!

- I have a tendency to be overly cautious. After the bead has been etched and cleaned for painting, I only handle it wearing gloves. I understand the importance of doing this. However, I also don't handle the copper during and after wiping it with the green scrubby. Am I going overboard with this?

You’re asking the wrong person about overboard. ROFL! I do the same thing. I know that any kind of oils or residue can impact the process, so I figure I’ll just be cautious.

- How do you clean the paint brush? I've been "washing" it in the distilled water (just water, no soap). Is that sufficient?

Yep. I just wash mine in distilled water. Gotta love water based conductive paint, eh?

- If I want to add an existing element that has already been eformed to a bead that's about to be eformed, what's going to happen to the previously eformed element? Will it lose it's copper, gain copper, or remain unchanged? My objective is for it to remain unchanged.

If the NEW element connects with the EXISTING element, then the existing element will GAIN copper. If the two elements don’t make contact, then there will be no change in the existing element. If they do connect, design-wise, and you wish to keep the existing element from gaining additional copper, use sculpting wax or some other material to mask off the existing element (ie – cover it up so no additional copper can be laid down on it)

- I painted a bead with the eform paint, let it dry thoroughly (8 hrs), and plunked it in the soup. Part of the design included some swirls that branched out. These are raising off the surface of the bead. Do you know why?

When you electroform a bead, you’re essentially creating a metal “cage” about the bead. If you have a design element that goes off all by itself, it can have a tendency to lift up. You can minimize this by laying down the copper ever more slowly, and by sandblasting the bead before electroforming, rather than just etching. That will give the surface more “tooth”.

[Renee]

Janelle, I just checked back on this thread and saw you had responded to my post. Thank you so very much! As Tink indicated, she responded to me via email, so I haven't been checking this thread as often.

Thanks, again, Janelle! BTW, Tink answered Tory's question!! Speaking of which, Tink, you didn't include your response to Tory's question!!

Best wishes for a very safe and happy holiday to all.

[sandra j ziolkowski]

So far, so fun!! Where is everyone? I'm working with different patinas and sealer. I bought some from rio grande. I bought the Midas brown and the green patina. The green in the pictures is very pretty but it flakes off. I take it from the soup and brush it and then put it in the patina for a few minutes and then dry it in a warm kiln. Most but not all the flakyness comes after I seal it with sealer. The sealer is not sealing as a matter of fact the more sealer I use the flakier the round flat pendant became.(the real green one. The two pendants I didnt use the green on turned out fine as a matter of fact i will tumble them both alittle more. The others I'm afraid if I tumble will loose all patina down to the brown.

[Tink]

Sandi, I just wanted to say how impressed I am! You have been one BUSY grrl! I've not used commercial patinas much, so don't feel I have any valuable input in that regard. I'm wondering about using Renaissance Wax or Liquid Luster to seal the work. Anyone have any thoughts on that? I've used them both, but I'd like to hear from others.

[sandra j ziolkowski]

I'm not sure I cleaned the vessels before sealing it. But... the reason I did it that way was because I was afraid if I cleaned it good enough to be sealed it would loose all that great green patina. If the surface is flaking to begin with I can see how that would cause more flaking later. Just like painting the surface of a house that is pealing. I went ahead and put the vessel that was'nt pealing that much in the tumbler with some other things to see how it would fare. Let me know what you think.

[Tink]

My current preference for sealing is Renaissance Wax, Sandi. And I never clean the electroformed portion of the work after applying the patina. I either leave it as-is, or I seal it with the wax. I've not had any problems with flaking.

Are you tumbling after you apply the patina???

[sandra j ziolkowski]

Yes I did go ahead and tumble the two brown pieces and they turned out good because they were very rough and it just polished the tops and left brown or black in the crevises. However I also tumbled one of the vessels and something else and it almost completely removed the patina. But thats ok because i'm starting over with them now. I suppose the Rennisance wax is a Rio product? The real blue, greeen pieces, if worn around the neck would leave stains of blue, green on your clothes . So ..... I need to figure this out.

[Tink]

Renaissance Wax can be found oodles of places. Here's a link to an eBay seller: I have no connection with the seller, nor have I ever purchased anything from them --- http://snipurl.com/196aa

Microcrystaline waxes like this are great sealers, and protect the patina really well.

[Emily]

I think blue and green patinas are generally pretty fragile. There's a short piece in Lapidary Journal (I think it's in the current issue) by Tim McCreight about getting a blue/green patina on silver. Bottom line is he says you can't get that color on silver -- what you have to do is put a thin copper plating on the silver (which you do by putting the silver in contaminated pickle), and then patina the copper. The relevant point is that he says it's fragile, so he recommends doing it only on recessed areas that aren't going to be rubbed when the item is worn.

[sandra j ziolkowski]

Here are some that have not been waxed. I'm giving up on the sealer that I bought. Also I fumed the blue green ones. That seems to work better than soaking them. The copper brown turned out nice after being tumbled alittle longer. The Blue with Blue is a bit much,I may put some brown in their.
Thanks for the info on Tim McCreight. I am taking a class with him next month
Can't wait to pick his brain. That was my next line of questioning anyway. I want to make my chains match my new pendants. Chains are made of Sterling silver.

[rainygrrl]

Sandi, those are great. And the blue with blue is not too much for some of us...
Emily, you've got a wealth of information. Thank you for sharing here and elsewhere.

[JanMD]

Originally Posted by Tink

- Can the anodes and copper wire be kept in the distilled water when not in use? My thought was that it would keep the copper from becoming dirty and contaminated.

Hmmm… I don’t know. I never thought about it. I take mine out, wash them in distilled water, dry them and keep them in a Ziplok bag. You can try it: Let me know!

There is some mention in all the stuff I've read on this subject that, if not cared for properly, the copper anodes develop a corroded oxidized "skin" that slows down the frate of deposition. You can feel and see this "skin" -- the anodes get a rough matte finish and the coppery shine disappears. I just give mine a real good rub with coarse, then finer sandpaper (with Ajax) at intervals (then rinsed in distilled water!!), to bring back the shine and expose as much clean copper to the solution as possible.

Everyone's e-formed work is --as usual here-- outstandingly great. I love looking at it all!

Thank you, everyone!

Jan

[Byrdbeads]

OMG IM ELECTROFORMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Im so excited! LOL Got off work this morning and came home and put my bead in with the paint dried on overnight and it is working and so far is bright bright new penny color. I cant wait till it is done. Have 2 more to do when I get this one done.

Question, do I reuse the wire that the piece is suspeded from r do I use a new suspension wire for each new piece?

THANKS TINK!!!!!!!!!!!!

Robyn

[Tink]

Yay! I'm glad the kit meets with your approval

You can reuse the wires. Just scrub them with your green scrubbie.