Lampwork Etc.
 
TrueDesign

LE Live Chat

Enter Live Chat

No users in chat


Donate via PayPal to donate@lampworketc.com

Caber Light


 

Go Back   Lampwork Etc. > Library > Tips, Techniques, and Questions

Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 2007-11-09, 5:47am
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default Need Advice from Cheetah Owners

I'm upgrading from a Piranha to a Cheetah and need your expertise.

What oxygen concentrator are you using. If you could do it over, would you still buy the same one? If not, which oxy con would you buy?

Thanks for your help.

Suzanne
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 2007-11-09, 8:23am
nagibeads's Avatar
nagibeads nagibeads is offline
yukue fumei
 
Join Date: Apr 25, 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 4,954
Default

Hi Suzanne-
It depends on what your needs are.
I bought an AirSep Onyx+(20psi) to run mine. I don't recommend it now because of the price(you can buy a cheaper oxycon these days for much less I think) and because it runs the Cheetah at around 60%.

For soft glass, this soft flame is perfect(for my needs), but for boro I use tanked O2. I can make boro beads with the Onyx+ but it takes a bit longer.
If I had to do it all over again and know that I would upgrade to a bigger torch, I would get an On Site Pro series oxygen generator....or the setup that Ro has:
this is an excerpt from her post....copied from the GLDG forum:
oxy system specs
OG 15 $1600.00
OG 15 deadband pressure switch $150.00
Rix micro boost oxy compressor 115v; 50/60Hz # MB-D-115 $4500.00
High pressure hose $100.00
Shipping $100.00
Misc fittings apx $100.00
K tanks from local fire dept supplier $150.00 each (I picked them up)
Total apx: $6750.00
It takes 24 hours to fill one empty k tank. I have them set to fill when combined tanks go to 100psi. I usually set them to run at night. No issues for fill time so far its great.
Considering mirage eats a tank so fast it was cost effective to use the system. I could not keep filling 80 cuft. tank daily at 18.00$ per fill. Now at least after a year or so it will have paid for itself then free oxy forever. Also if your system is in a basement it needs to be 40% humidity or less. I have a large dehumidifier running 24/7 which pump drains outside. It was the best decision for me. If I purchased a generator for direct feed to the torch it was about 11,000$ and torch specific for flow rates. Now it does not matter what torches I run. I work on a mirage.
talk to fred morgan for my set up if your interested.
ro
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
nagi

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
,
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 2007-11-09, 1:32pm
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default

Thank you, Nagi. I appreciate your your expertise. I never even considered the humidity in my basement.
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 2007-11-09, 1:37pm
Paul Ewing's Avatar
Paul Ewing Paul Ewing is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 12, 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 917
Default

I run it on Tanked O2. I don't think that it would do well on concentrators since the pressure is lo unless you get one of the $1000+ ones. I might hook up the three concentrators we have (17lpm total at 8psi) and see how it goes but I am not expecting much.

Cheers, Paul
__________________
Paul Ewing

Torch Ho... GTT Mirage, Carlisle CC, GTT Cheetahs, GTT Lynxes, and others on tanked O2.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 2007-11-09, 2:15pm
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default

My goodness, you ARE a Torch Ho!

I dread the thought of dragging around tanks. I've put in a lot of overtime to upgrade my torch and oxy con. Thanks, Paul.
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 2007-11-09, 2:54pm
kiko's Avatar
kiko kiko is offline
Hummel factory reject
 
Join Date: Jan 06, 2006
Location: New Yorkish
Posts: 615
Default

Hi Suzanne, I was running my cheetah on an OG-20 and would get about 80%. It was fine for boro. I could do large beads and work tubing. It is a hot torch!
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 2007-11-09, 4:05pm
pam's Avatar
pam pam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 2,251
Default

I agree, I'm running my Cheetah on the OG-20 and I would say it is about at 80%, maybe 85. It works well, but I have been thinking of upgrading to the holding tank that is an extra $300, or building one with the instructions that were posted here. It really depends on you and the way you work and what you can be happy with.
__________________
Pam

"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Blog
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2007-11-09, 6:04pm
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default

Lori, thank you. I've really enjoyed my Piranha but want a bushier flame for sculptures. I've also pm'd you.
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2007-11-09, 6:05pm
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default

Pam, what will the holding tank do?
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2007-11-09, 6:37pm
tt4st tt4st is offline
just plain silly
 
Join Date: Sep 11, 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 560
Default

Hi Suzanne,
I run my Cheetah on the Regalia and it works great! According to Kimberly who sells the Regalia(Pyronamix), she said it runs at 80%. It has plenty of juice to run that torch for soft glass and small boro and pays for itself in no time.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Suzanne
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 2007-11-09, 8:29pm
pam's Avatar
pam pam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 2,251
Default

The holding tank will hold a certain amount of oxy so that at times when you need that little extra boost it is there. I don't think you could run the Cheetah full tilt constantly, but for those few times when it would speed things up to turn the torch up further for a few minutes, you could do it. My understanding is that it also prolongs the life of the generator because it doesn't cycle as much.
__________________
Pam

"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Blog
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 2007-11-09, 9:11pm
kbinkster's Avatar
kbinkster kbinkster is offline
PyronamixK
 
Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
Posts: 4,196
Default

When asked what percentage of the Cheetah's full capacity the Regalia can run, my answer is a conservative 60-65%. The key words are "full capacity." The Cheetah is capable of getting a very large, very hot flame when running full out on tanked oxygen (big enough that you can make boro marbles up to 3" in diameter). I have seen the OG-20 run the Cheetah, and I feel that 80% is not an accurate estimate of how much of the torch's full capacity can be reached. I would estimate (again, conservatively) that at between 60-65%, just based on what I have seen at open torch.

At any rate, I dug out the OG-20 Torch Comparison Worksheet I was given a couple of years back to see what they claim the OG-20 can do on the Cheetah. The sheet claims that the OG-20 can "run up to 6mm candles for majority of applications." Six millimeters is just under 1/4".

The Regalia puts out only slightly more flow than the OG-20 (the OG-20 puts out 20 CFH and the Regalia puts out 21 CFH) at a little lower pressure. They are similarly sized machines, but the Regalia has several advantages over the OG-20. You can ask me about that if you're interested.

Anyway, here are some flame measurements I took while running the Cheetah on the Regalia:

17" long flame with 1/2" candles and a shoulder width of 1.25-1.5" - suitable for boro (would be a little too reducing for soft glass)

12" long flame with 1/4" candles and a shoulder width of 1.5" - neutral flame suitable for soft glass

20" long driving flame with 3/8" candles and a shoulder width of 0.5" - neutral flame suitable for boro or soft glass

10" long flame with 1/8" candles and a shoulder width of 1" - short, soft, bushy flame with lots of radiant heat

I could also get a small flame that came to a point and a small flame with 1/16" candles. Keep in mind that any time you run candles shorter than 1/4", they need to be all blue.
__________________
Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002

Last edited by kbinkster; 2007-11-09 at 9:13pm.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 2007-11-09, 9:37pm
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default

Kimberly, what did you find out about using NG with a Cheetah?
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 2007-11-11, 12:11am
castaway's Avatar
castaway castaway is offline
sorcerer
 
Join Date: Nov 13, 2005
Location: kangaroo island
Posts: 312
Default

I'm a bit late here but only just noticed this thread. My OG20 runs my cheetah with 1CM candles with no problems and when I switch in the holding tank it almost blows the torch out, I have to up the gas to keep it burning, I would definitely recommend this set up for soft glass sculpture and marbles.
cheers, Bernard
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 2007-11-11, 12:22am
castaway's Avatar
castaway castaway is offline
sorcerer
 
Join Date: Nov 13, 2005
Location: kangaroo island
Posts: 312
Default

I'm a bit late here but only just noticed this thread. My OG20 runs my cheetah with 1CM candles with no problems and when I switch in the holding tank it almost blows the torch out, I have to up the gas to keep it burning, I would definitely recommend this set up for soft glass sculpture and marbles.
cheers, Bernard
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 2007-11-11, 4:42am
pam's Avatar
pam pam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 2,251
Default

Just curious, Kimberly, since I feel slightly different than you regarding the percentage that the OG20 will power the Cheetah, and I do consider you the expert, so I must be wrong, but could our difference of opinion have anything to do with altitude? I'm about 7 feet above sea level where I live and I know you are just a little higher than that. I could see how it might make a difference in percentage of oxy, perhaps, but just curious if it could make the difference between 65 and 80%. If so, then I think it's something all of us should be aware of.
__________________
Pam

"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Blog
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:09am
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default

Thanks for the information on holding tanks, Pam.
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:13am
StLouisBiker StLouisBiker is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Posts: 793
Default

As I mentioned the Cheetah will give me room to grow.

Would a Lynx allow me to make some boro beads and also give me a bushy flame? What oxycon do you recommend? I use NG.

Is it better to have a concentrator that is bigger than your torch needs?

Thank you.

Suzanne
__________________
Suzanne
'Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monas materiam possit materiara?'
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 2007-11-11, 4:01pm
Curly Irish Girl's Avatar
Curly Irish Girl Curly Irish Girl is offline
Irish Eyes A Smiling
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Location: Menomonie, WI
Posts: 1,627
Default

Suzanne - there is a great tutorial on Trey Cornette's website on building your own holding tank.....as my "big" torch is a Mini CC, I've not done it, but the "how to" part is easily understood and the supplies are pretty much a Home Depot run.....
__________________
Lynn


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2007-11-11, 8:17pm
maddog1050's Avatar
maddog1050 maddog1050 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 05, 2005
Posts: 263
Default

I have a Cheetah with a Psyclone and it works great for me. I had a smaller concentrator but when I upgraded from a Lynx, decided I needed more oxygen. It does everything I need and I don't miss the oxygen tanks.
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2007-11-12, 8:16pm
kbinkster's Avatar
kbinkster kbinkster is offline
PyronamixK
 
Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
Posts: 4,196
Default

O.K., I finally heard back from Wally regarding the Cheetah the lowest fuel pressure needed.

Wally said that the Cheetah will make soft glass beads using 1/2 psi fuel and 10 psi oxygen (he said he could probably use less oxygen). It does better on 1 psi (and can work boro on that setting) and tops out at around 1 .25 psi.

Now, this was confusing to me because Willy and Wally had told me before that the Lynx (a smaller torch) required 2-2.5 psi fuel to run well. I asked him test the Lynx for how low a fuel pressure it could take. He did and said that at 1/4 psi fuel and 10 psi oxygen (more than needed - would probably only need 8 psi) he could get candles that were just under 1/4" long - enough to do soft glass beads. At 1/2 psi fuel, he was able to push the torch to more than enough to do soft glass work and could work boro on it. At 1 psi, the torch was pretty much maxed out.

So, there you have it.
__________________
Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2007-11-12, 8:46pm
kbinkster's Avatar
kbinkster kbinkster is offline
PyronamixK
 
Join Date: Jun 24, 2005
Location: Spatula City
Posts: 4,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pam View Post
Just curious, Kimberly, since I feel slightly different than you regarding the percentage that the OG20 will power the Cheetah, and I do consider you the expert, so I must be wrong, but could our difference of opinion have anything to do with altitude? I'm about 7 feet above sea level where I live and I know you are just a little higher than that. I could see how it might make a difference in percentage of oxy, perhaps, but just curious if it could make the difference between 65 and 80%. If so, then I think it's something all of us should be aware of.
Pam, estimating torch performance on a percentage basis is really pretty subjective. I admit than my estimations are conservative, mainly because I would rather err on the side of caution and undershoot a set-up's performance than to tell someone that a certain concentrator will power a certain torch to a certain percentage and then the result be less than what was expected, leading to disppointment.

I based my estimation of the Cheetah running on the OG-20 from what I saw of it at the Louisville, KY Gathering in 2005 when it was unveiled. It did no better then than the Regalia does now, IMO, at running the Cheetah. Wally has talked to Fred and asked him to send a unit to him to test, but so far, he hasn't. If he does get one to test, I'll be sure to post the results.

If I were to base the percentage of how much a particular unit runs the Cheetah on flow rates, alone, then both the Regalia and the OG-20 would be really up there (90% range), with the Regalia edging out the OG-20 because it puts out more CFH. But, there is more to it than that. It is true that the OG-20 puts out slightly higher pressure, but if you don't have the flow and the purity to back it up, the thrust gained from the additional pressure does not add any more heat.

As for my opinion... From a quality/technical standpoint, the Regalia is a superior machine. It is made using more advanced technology and using far fewer parts. It is simpler to use (LCD flow meter with push button control - no knobs to get knocked off), maintains a constant flow regardless of humidity or temperature (the anaolgue flow meters will fluctuate), and can be run even while the torch oxygen valve is turned off (it just purges the unused oxygen instead of alarming or shutting off, requiring a reset). Both the Regalia and it's medical counterpart, the Integra, are industrial strength on the inside (they use the same compressor as the OG-20, for example), but are packaged using the foam insulated cabinets for noise reduction. So they are much quieter than the OG units. The Regalia also does not have the valve purge noise or the flame fluctuation (breathing) that goes with it. It just hums along producing a steady flow of oxyen without the need for a holding tank. Of course, if you wanted to put a holding tank with it, you certainly could. The Regalia has great purity and is less expensive to boot.
__________________
Kimberly
working glass since 1990 - melting it on a torch since 2002
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 2007-11-12, 9:29pm
pam's Avatar
pam pam is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 15, 2005
Posts: 2,251
Default

Thanks, Kimberly, for the explanation.

I admit it is hard to discern exact percentages. I do love my OG-20, but then you weren't selling the Regalia at that time and I got the one available that would power my Cheetah to what I needed and whose mechanical integrity I was sure of. I'm also sure the Regalia is very good and I have every confidence that it will do exactly what you say it will do.
__________________
Pam

"It is easier to perceive error than to find truth, for the former lies on the surface and is easily seen, while the latter lies in the depth, where few are willing to search for it." Johann Wolfgang Von Goeth

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Blog
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 2007-11-12, 10:42pm
PaulaD's Avatar
PaulaD PaulaD is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 11, 2005
Location: SUNNY FLORIDA~West Coast!
Posts: 9,423
Default

Well I've got a Regalia sitting here and a Cheetah sitting here so maybe one night I'll hook the two of them together for a 3rd very non scientific opinion. I've put this off because I am used to running the Cheetah full blast on liquid oxygen which I know is a tough act to follow..But now I am wondering...Paula
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Still North America's Largest Lauscha Dealer!
Now reopened in South Florida!!
Like US on Facebook !
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 3:35pm.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Your IP: 44.200.23.133