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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2007-11-11, 3:33pm
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Default 'Cuda vs. Wildcat??

Yes, it's another newbie asking for torch help. Narrowed it down, I think, to these two. These things are important to me:
  • Fine flame for detail but able to do larger projects w/o shocking (tubes, sm. ornaments)
    Low maintenance (don't want to send back for cleaning)
    Hot enough to do borro, eventually, but not too hot for soft glass
    Plays well w/propane & tanked oxyBurns clean (I can make clear glass sooty w/o extra help!)

So, do I really need/want 2 flames from the 'cuda? I'm used to working on a HH, so I know there'll be a learning curve. Looked through all 20 pgs. of "Torch Questions" forum, which helped some. I'd like to get a torch that does everything, of course. Especially the laundry!

Thanks for any help. I rely on you guys a lot since there's very little professional teaching around here. The one class I took . . . well, never mind!
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  #2  
Old 2007-11-11, 3:44pm
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I loved my wildcat but it did not get a pinpoint flame so If I had to do it allover again I would go with the cuda

I moved down to a nortel mega minor because I wanted the pinpoint flame and couldnt afford to move up yet. However I miss my big busy flame. I never had a problem with soot thats probably the hot head there

I think the cuda with being able to use the center fire would be better on oxy since you could use the middle flame for most and the outer flame when you really needed the heat.
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  #3  
Old 2007-11-11, 5:05pm
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Thanks for the info. Do you know if the cuda torch head stay cool like the wildcat, or is it hands off like my HH? Also liked that the wildcat draws in oxy so it uses 1/3 less than the minor cc. How long does your oxy last? What size tank?
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  #4  
Old 2007-11-11, 5:21pm
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I was planning to upgrade to a Barracuda from my Piranha, but after reading about the hot torch head, I'm going GTT. A Phantom or Mirage. Not sure yet.

LE has a lot of information on torches.

How exciting to get a new torch! Good luck!
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  #5  
Old 2007-11-11, 5:23pm
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Roc I purchased a GTT cheetah last december. I was looking at the cuda or the cheetah and decided on the cheetah because it has all the things you mentioned that you want and stays nice and cool. I was told the cuda gets very hot, and needs much more oxy to run. I am very happy with the decision and don't need anymore torch than I have.
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  #6  
Old 2007-11-11, 5:35pm
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Londa,

Thanks! Is the cheetah easy to maintain? I had read a Corrina review & she said 2 other GTT torches had to be sent back periodically to be cleaned. Any idea, since you've had it almost a year? And thanks for helping me see other options!
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  #7  
Old 2007-11-11, 5:50pm
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Check out the Carlisle Hellcat also; it has the dual flame. And the Knight Bullet Burner - both have similar specs as the Barracuda.
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  #8  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROC View Post
Also liked that the wildcat draws in oxy so it uses 1/3 less than the minor cc. How long does your oxy last? What size tank?
Where di you hear this? Everything I heard is that the Wildcat uses a fair amount of oxygen. I can't see how it would use less than a minor or mini CC.
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  #9  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:32pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Ewing View Post
Where di you hear this? Everything I heard is that the Wildcat uses a fair amount of oxygen. I can't see how it would use less than a minor or mini CC.
Maybe I misunderstood? www.teslatoys.com/wildcat.htm.

BTW, can't wait to get the chains. Thanks again!
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  #10  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:33pm
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AND, since you da Torch Ho, what do you recommend?
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  #11  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:40pm
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Rachel, If you don't run the candles on a GTT torch high enough it will heat the face of the torch and develop carbon. I personally have not had a problem with carbon build up on the cheetah, but I don't try to run a small flame for extended periods. GTT's are great torches you just need to run them properly and they work fine. Call the twins and talk to them. They are very busy but if you catch them on a down day are a great help!

What torch do you have now? Are you using a HH?? I think honestly if you are, you should try some larger torches out before you decide. Going from a HH to a cheetah would be very difficult. I wish you where closer I would let you see the cheetah in action.

Other torches I have used, and like...
GTT Lynx- less ports than the cheetah, nice pinpoint flame, large enough to do big beads. (I still have it, but find the cheetah works for what I need, and easier to work around the heat when doing smaller stuff then to change torches)
Mini CC- Smaller than the other two mentioned but a great little torch and really good for the money. ( I took two classes with this great little torch. One was a boro class and had no trouble with larger beads. It was however hooked up to a tank.)
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  #12  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:48pm
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Thanks Londa. Now, may I just say, "AUUUUGH!" It's so confusing! Looks like I need to keep reading.
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  #13  
Old 2007-11-11, 6:53pm
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the wildcat went thru a 282 cu ft bottle every 12 hours not open all the way alot of oxy alot!

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  #14  
Old 2007-11-11, 9:12pm
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Sorry Rachel! I understand the frustration. When I picked the cheetah I looked into if for quite some time, and am very glad I did.
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  #15  
Old 2007-11-12, 7:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROC View Post
Yes, it's another newbie asking for torch help. Narrowed it down, I think, to these two. These things are important to me:
  • Fine flame for detail but able to do larger projects w/o shocking (tubes, sm. ornaments)
    Low maintenance (don't want to send back for cleaning)
    Hot enough to do borro, eventually, but not too hot for soft glass
    Plays well w/propane & tanked oxyBurns clean (I can make clear glass sooty w/o extra help!)

So, do I really need/want 2 flames from the 'cuda? I'm used to working on a HH, so I know there'll be a learning curve. Looked through all 20 pgs. of "Torch Questions" forum, which helped some. I'd like to get a torch that does everything, of course. Especially the laundry!

Thanks for any help. I rely on you guys a lot since there's very little professional teaching around here. The one class I took . . . well, never mind!
A better comparison would be comparing a Hellcat to a Barracuda. They are configured the same, although the Hellcat is cheaper and is a much better torch. It has s 7 port center fire (which you will use most of the time) but has a 14 port outer flame which you will use when you need a lot of heat. It's also $150 cheaper than a Barracuda.
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  #16  
Old 2007-11-12, 8:40am
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I went with the cudda and not sorry that I did. Sure the head gets hot but you really have no reason to touch it, even on accident. I've burned myself on the hot glass but never once in 4 years have I burned myself on the head of the torch
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  #17  
Old 2007-11-12, 8:57am
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I have a Wildcat and a MiniCC and the Wildcat sucks up Oxy like crazy, I love my MiniCC though...
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  #18  
Old 2007-11-12, 9:03am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captured Light Glass View Post
I have a Wildcat and a MiniCC and the Wildcat sucks up Oxy like crazy, I love my MiniCC though...
That's the beauty of the Hellcat (and also the Bullet). It's a Wildcat, but the 7 center ports are controlled separately from the 14 outer ports. When both the inner and outer flames are on, it's the same size as a Wildcat. But with just the inner on, it's the same size as the Mini CC.
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  #19  
Old 2007-11-12, 9:21am
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I have the barracuda and have never burned myself on the barrel either...or on my CC <not mini>in my 8 years on the torch. I actually sold my CC because I liked the cuda better. I think it's a great torch and it seems that people love it or hate it. I am however about to put my name on a list for a mirage because I have the desire to create things that are large. But the with the barracuda I have made plenty of large things, it all come down to the skill you have more than the torch I think in alot of situations. I've seen a guy make a rather large super detailed IO item on a victor welding torch with a singletip flame, so so I don't know...god luck choosing a torch!
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  #20  
Old 2007-11-12, 9:35am
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I'm a Cuda fan. I've worked on the Hellcat and the Wildcat... didn't like either. The flame is too bushy and not focused enough for my taste. I love my Cuda more than any other and I've run a lot of torches...
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  #21  
Old 2007-11-12, 9:37am
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You guys are great, THANKS!!!!! All of the info you're sharing is VERY helpful, and the advice much appreciated!!

(Hey Smiley! Wondered if you'd weigh in. Any idea how much oxy the cuda will use, tanked? No oxy con for awhile.)
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Old 2007-11-12, 9:41am
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I'm running mine at 15-16 LPM. It's smokin hot and I'm able to get great color. I'm sure you can do some math and figure out what my consumption is based on these numbers.
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Old 2007-11-12, 9:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Smiley View Post
I'm a Cuda fan. I've worked on the Hellcat and the Wildcat... didn't like either. The flame is too bushy and not focused enough for my taste. I love my Cuda more than any other and I've run a lot of torches...
I personally found the exact opposite to be true. I found that the flame on the Carlisle and Knight torches was much more focused. It seems like on a Barracuda you have to run a much bigger flame to get the same amount of heat. I also found the heat on the Bethlehem to not penetrate very well. It seemed to take a lot longer to heat a piece all the way through. I was running them on tanked oxygen, though, so that may be part of the difference. I ran a Hellcat at BeadFest on 3 M-15 concentrators, and it ran incredibly well. Could just be that the oxygen sources made the difference.

I found that the Bullet and Hellcat most closely compare to my old Tiger Shark in terms of heat of the flame, but still more penetrating heat on the other torches than on my Tiger Shark.
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  #24  
Old 2007-11-12, 10:47am
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Poor Rachel, I really feel sorry for you in some ways, but in others you are embarking on an adventure. I think you can tell by the replies that everyone who has a torch thinks that one is the best. I think mine is the best also, but I have thought that many, many times over the last 20 years.

What you really have to do is listen, then think about the way you work and what you want to do and get the best possible torch that fits you. Once you get it, don't hook it up and just try it for a couple of days and say, I hate it, throw up your hands and start looking for another torch. Changing torches is difficult. Each brand of torch has its own idiosyncracies and, guess what, the torch won't change, so you have to.

Give yourself a month working with the torch daily before you decide that you hate it. You get used to what the torch has to offer and you learn to use its attributes so that it fits your style of beadmaking. If after a month you still hate the torch, I can almost guarantee that someone will buy it for $50 off, so you won't have lost the total cost of the torch. Take a deep breath, your best guess and then leap. Give it your best effort and I am sure in just a few months you will be answering threads like this by saying your torch is the BEST!!!

Going somewhere and trying out all different types of torches side by side is ideal, but there are not many places where you can do that.
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  #25  
Old 2007-11-12, 1:44pm
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And when you are shopping, check out the Dragon Bullet 7/14. High reviews from Lewis Wilson and James Minson. Can be used for soft glass or boro. Steel housing, not cast and stays cooler than most. Very similiar to the 'cuda. except for the housing..
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Old 2007-11-12, 3:24pm
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Quote:
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Londa,

Thanks! Is the cheetah easy to maintain? I had read a Corrina review & she said 2 other GTT torches had to be sent back periodically to be cleaned. Any idea, since you've had it almost a year? And thanks for helping me see other options!
Corina was a little less than truthful about that. O.K., a lot less than truthful. She sent the Bobcat in once and the Lynx in once. They were both sent back to her after they were cleaned.

She was told how to properly run her torches to avoid the carboning (she had the same issues with her Minor always carboning up, btw). But, her attitude was that torches were replacable and that she would run her torches however she wanted to.

The fact of the matter is that with any torch, the shorter you run your candles, the more the face will heat up and cause carboning. It shows up faster on the triple mixes than on standard torches because of the tiny injector tubes. This is good, because it alerts you that there is a problem before any real damage (like tube erosion) occurs.

So, no matter which torch you go with, keep in mind that when you run short candles (1/4" or shorter), they need to be all blue (no tips).
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  #27  
Old 2007-11-12, 4:08pm
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Thanks, everybody for the torch info and help on oxy (although you SERIOUSLY overestimate my math abilities!). So now I'm off to comparison shop with even more torches in the mix!

I'll check back in later. Ya'll are a huge help! And I've been skulking around ebay, etsy & websites and see some AMAZING work. Whatever torch it is that does that work, that's the one I want!!!

Seriously, 'preciate the wisdom some of you shared. I suspect it will be just like learning on my beloved HH, all over again!
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  #28  
Old 2007-11-12, 4:19pm
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A lot will depend on your price range. If you are looking at spending the $900 for a new barracuda, then I would recommend stretching to $1125 for the a Phantom. It will give you the supper small pinpoint flame of the Lynx with the outer fire for working big things or tubing. I am wishing that I had a Phantom now because while the Lynx would deal with 80% or more of the work on my pieces, I still use the Cheetah (wasting oxygen) since it is not really practical to change the connected torch.

I had toyed with the idea of hooking them both up and just moving one to the top of the bench and making a little shelf for the other to stay right under the bench so I can swap them back and forth.

I might try the CC again and see how it works for me on my smaller pieces, but everyone says that the premix centerfire ruins colors.
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  #29  
Old 2007-11-12, 4:38pm
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Listen Roc,
I don't have much time left on the laptop battery, so here is my advice. I have been on Cuda for almost 3 yrs, and started with it. I bought a cheetah and sold it because it used a hell of lot of O2 and was a bitch to keep clean.
The cuda may be hot but it is more versitile in many ways and there is a learning curve, but in the long run, it was exactly what I needed. I didn't want to have to buy another torch because either couldn't do boro or some reason like that. Cuda will take lots of abuse and just keep on going and I can make a med. size tank of O2 last me over 30 hrs.

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Old 2007-11-12, 4:46pm
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Listen Roc,
I don't have much time left on the laptop battery, so here is my advice. I have been on Cuda for almost 3 yrs, and started with it. I bought a cheetah and sold it because it used a hell of lot of O2 and was a bitch to keep clean.
The cuda may be hot but it is more versitile in many ways and there is a learning curve, but in the long run, it was exactly what I needed. I didn't want to have to buy another torch because either couldn't do boro or some reason like that. Cuda will take lots of abuse and just keep on going and I can make a med. size tank of O2 last me over 30 hrs.

WildBird
Thanks so much for taking the time to post! Good luck w/the wood stove.
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~Rachel

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