Natural Gas lines

[bullfrog]

So I am in the city, in an indoor studio and my only option is natural gas. Here's the problem. Where I want my torch is at the opposite side of the studio than where the natural gas feed is.

I'm going to get a professional in to do this, but so I am more educated on the matter, what are possible sollutions. I know that the gas reaches that side of the studio because there is a natural gas heater attached to the ceiling.

But if I can only use this other connection. What are the proper ways to route a gas line safely and temporarily (no permanent changes to the space are really a possibility.

[AVTrout]

I'm getting a gas line in the basement. They said that they can do 1 of 2 things: run a line from a major applicance that takes gas, like my hot water heater (studio's in the basement) or since I want the capability of more gas pressure, they're putting in a meter upgrade and running my line right from the meter. They have to punch through the basement wall, though. Hope this info helps!

[StLouisBiker]

I had the gas company extend my gas line. If I had used a private contractor I still would have had to pay for a gas inspection. Also, I wanted someone who knew the proper way to install it.

Do you have ventilation?

[bhhco]

You will likely also be using a ventilation system to exhaust the torch combustion products.

Flamework ventilation systems usually exhaust a lot of air from the room. You mention there is a gas heater in the room. Depending on how it's combustion products are vented, the flamework ventilation may compete with it and draw CO into the room.

Suggest checking on the Safety forum for more information, relative to torching in a room which also has other gas appliances.

Me

[bullfrog]

getting an exhaust hood for ventilation, and have an entire wall filled with windows that we can use with fans to air out the space in an emergency.

The studio space I have is a 950 square foot industrial commercial loft that used to be an apartment for a little while, so it has regular old hookup in the kitchen that I can tie into. That hookup is unfortunately around 25 feet away from the torch area (by the windows).

Is it possible to safely route 25-30 feet of hose NOT in the wall and still be safe. We are only leasing, and again, will get the entire system checked out by a professional before use.

[bullfrog]

Originally Posted by bhhco

You will likely also be using a ventilation system to exhaust the torch combustion products.

Flamework ventilation systems usually exhaust a lot of air from the room. You mention there is a gas heater in the room. Depending on how it's combustion products are vented, the flamework ventilation may compete with it and draw CO into the room.

Suggest checking on the Safety forum for more information, relative to torching in a room which also has other gas appliances.

Me

I know these message boards are filled with tons of talk of ventilation, but my ventilation problems are non existent. I figured out a system for ventilation, and the heater and the exhaust hood are not competing at all. Thank you for your suggestion, but my main concern is really with routing the natural gas.

[Dale M.]

Originally Posted by bullfrog

getting an exhaust hood for ventilation, and have an entire wall filled with windows that we can use with fans to air out the space in an emergency.

The studio space I have is a 950 square foot industrial commercial loft that used to be an apartment for a little while, so it has regular old hookup in the kitchen that I can tie into. That hookup is unfortunately around 25 feet away from the torch area (by the windows).

Is it possible to safely route 25-30 feet of hose NOT in the wall and still be safe. We are only leasing, and again, will get the entire system checked out by a professional before use.

Although 25 feet is not a really long run, it would be best to pipe in gas for where it enters room to torch area if at all possible. Metallic piping is always first choice. It would be simple matter to run it along wall to ensure a safe installation.

Other option would to get best quality "Natural Gas Approved " hose you can get and place it along wall in a manner that it will not be come crushed or injured by "normal" objects and movement in room.... You may want to also consider a "free flow" preventer on line before it connects to hose. A free flow preventer rely on a certain amount of back pressure to keep flow valve open, if the device experiences no back pressure (hose disconnect or cut) it shuts off gas flow. I believe Carlisle Machine company (Carlisle Torches) makes this device.

Dale

[bullfrog]

I already have flashback arresters in both my lines. Having a free flow in the line would be beneficial as well?

[ChrisCamac]

This might be considered a pain, but you could consider unhooking the hose and coiling it up when not using the torch. This would hopefully alleviate any concern about the hosing getting damaged by day to day activities around where it is run. Putting in a quick connect at the piont of connection would make this easier also.

You definitely want to make sure and put an approved gas shutoff (ball valve or other quarter turn valve) at the end of the piping so you can shut it down when not in use.

I am aware of the device that Dale has mentioned, and it would be a good idea, but unfortunately Carlisle does not manufacture these items.

As for the flashback arrestor, be aware that a standard flashback arrestor will not work with a low pressure residential gas pressure (usually around 7" of water column which is just under 1/4 PSI). The arrestor if hooked to this setup will not allow any flow through it, as most models require a minimum pressure of 1 PSI. You can use a Fire Check to provide flashback protection with a natural gas line. The Fire Check is manufactured by Carlisle.

[MikeAurelius]

Originally Posted by bullfrog

getting an exhaust hood for ventilation, and have an entire wall filled with windows that we can use with fans to air out the space in an emergency.

The studio space I have is a 950 square foot industrial commercial loft that used to be an apartment for a little while, so it has regular old hookup in the kitchen that I can tie into. That hookup is unfortunately around 25 feet away from the torch area (by the windows).

Is it possible to safely route 25-30 feet of hose NOT in the wall and still be safe. We are only leasing, and again, will get the entire system checked out by a professional before use.

Even though you are renting/leasing, I would still recommend that you have a hard wall installation for the natural gas done. Personally, I don't like to see long lengths of fuel gas hoses laying around -- there are way too many opportunities for Murphy to raise his ugly head and an accident happen. Someone can trip on the line, and pull the torch off the bench for example.

An existing gas line can be extended quite easily, this can even be a do-it-yourself job if you (or spouse/friend) can use a set of pipe wrenches.

You haven't mentioned which torch you are using, is it one that will run on low pressure (1/4 to 1/3 PSI) natural gas?

In regards to ventilation, any time you have another fuel gas using appliance in the same room as a glassworking vent hood, you *DO* have concerns that need to be addressed, chief among them is that you need to be absolutely positively sure that you are not only supplying enough make up air for the exhaust hood, but that the make up air for the other fuel gas using appliances isn't compromised in the process. Many times, this requires ducting fresh air directly to both the fuel gas using appliance AND the glassworking exhaust hood.

[AVTrout]

I'm getting a Carlisle Mini CC and today my gas utility company is hooking up my natural gas. I'm having a 2 psi conversion made to my exsisting line. It costs $200 for the meter upgrade, but I wanted to be sure I had enough umph to run a boro torch in the future, if I want to. I wanted the Carlisle Fire Check, but Wale Apparatus, where I'm getting the torch, said flashback arrestors do the same thing. So that's what I'm getting.

My setup is in the basement. We have a hot water heater and furnace. My husband is building me a hood with 300 CFM's. 12 ft. away from my bench/hood setup is another window where we're putting in a window fan to blow air in. How's this all sound? Sorry to butt in on the original thread, but this is kinda relevant to what I'm doing right now.

[MikeAurelius]

How big is the hood? 300 CFM isn't a whole lot of air movement for an overhead hood.

Typically, you want 100 to 125 CFM per square foot of hood coverage as minimum and "maximum" numbers. The minimum is borderline acceptable. "Maximum" is what I typically design to, plus a tolerance for what I can find in an available fan. For example, if the design spec calls for 745 CFM and the closest fans I can find are 700 and 800 CFM, I'll always go with the 800 CFM fan. It is always better to have more air movement than not enough (but don't overkill - don't use 1000 CFM when 800 CFM will suffice).

Be very sure that you don't compromise the existing fresh air supplies that the furnace and hotwater heater need. This means, that regardless of the weather outside, at least one, and perhaps two windows, at least 10 feet away from any exhaust duct must be open to supply the exhaust hood with the fresh air it needs to function properly.

[tabcaver]

My question is, I have a gas line that runs into my work area, a laundry room/converted glass studio. I have deep pour basement walls and the gas line is about 6 feet away from where I work, to the side of where my torch is located. Is there any chance that the heat from my torch could damage the natural gasline (I'm using the small MAPP tanks)(I do have a window opened above my work area). Again, the gasline isn't directly above me, it's 6 feet away, running across the ceiling.

[Dale M.]

IF your gas line is six feet away from torch flame there is probably no danger of causing any harm to line.... Your wooden flooring and joists will burn before you metallic gas line ....

Dale