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Boro Room -- For Boro-related tips, techniques, and questions.

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  #1  
Old 2009-11-21, 6:36am
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Arrow Schott Artistic...

Does not play well with silver colors in implosions...

The silver leaches into the clear and it gets all foggy... not a pretty foggy either. Looks like a thin coating of mold...

I like Simax so much better... that is all....
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  #2  
Old 2009-11-21, 9:04pm
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Yep, what he said!
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-One of a kind boro frit blends!
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  #3  
Old 2009-11-21, 9:23pm
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Yep,
What she said he said...said.

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  #4  
Old 2009-11-21, 10:01pm
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Yep,
What she said he said...said.

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  #5  
Old 2009-11-22, 11:19am
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Word.
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  #6  
Old 2009-11-22, 2:13pm
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Thanks for posting this Brent was thinking of buying a case or two to try...
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  #7  
Old 2009-11-23, 6:34am
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If you're using WYSIWYG colors, it's fine.... silver leaches into it really weird... gets cloudy... makes a silver glass guy scratch his head, but I finally got the clue that it's definitely the clear after two encounters with the same issue. Just glad I could warn the silver glass users... maybe avoid some head aches...
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  #8  
Old 2009-11-23, 6:45am
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OK, call me stupid if you have to, but what exactly is silver glass?

Greg
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  #9  
Old 2009-11-23, 7:21am
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Originally Posted by getdul981 View Post
OK, call me stupid if you have to, but what exactly is silver glass?

Greg
It's any glass that uses pure silver as a reactive colorant. Eg. DAP, Silver Creek, etc.
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  #10  
Old 2009-11-23, 10:32am
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I have used Simax almost exclusively and love it still, but I ordered some Pyrex recently and really like the way it reacts with the silver colors to create blue wisps and that halo effect.
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  #11  
Old 2009-11-24, 8:22pm
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Default yucky schott artistic?

it would be most interesting to see a photo or two of this effect?
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  #12  
Old 2009-11-24, 8:42pm
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Thanks Jamie, I figured it must be something like that.
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  #13  
Old 2009-11-24, 9:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptrautman View Post
it would be most interesting to see a photo or two of this effect?
Here's a pic of the same color with 4 different types of clear.

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=143134
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  #14  
Old 2009-11-25, 4:09am
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isn't blue moon a color that if you breathe to deeply or look at it the wrong way while working it causes the color to change regardless if all the pieces were made in the same atmosphere? I mean that's a lot of silver. I'd like to see this test done with multiple colors to give a good consensus. One test with a wild varying silver color may not be the best control.I'm not saying that the test isn't good, i just think that there are a lot of factors that go on and to draw a conclusion with absolute certainty based on one test isn't very practical.
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  #15  
Old 2009-11-25, 7:35am
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Well, if someone would like to donate some glass to me, I'd be glad to do such a test.

But, for me, Blue Moon has always been pretty predictable.
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  #16  
Old 2009-11-25, 9:28am
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Blue Moon is one of the colors I never have a problem with unless I specifically do something like use a flame with no oxy just to see what will happen. And my skill is nowhere near my enthusiasm -- if I can usually make it work, it's probably an easy color. You may be thinking of a different color?
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  #17  
Old 2009-11-25, 7:17pm
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Paul, I would, but i give my demo pieces away... let me see what I can do... will try to post pics of how it fuzzes out...
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  #18  
Old 2009-11-25, 9:45pm
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Brent, I will look through my pics to see if I got a good pic also.

Otter
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  #19  
Old 2009-11-25, 10:42pm
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I have a piece from your last class Brent. I will be happy to take a picture of and post in the next couple of days if you want me to. It will show the effect your talking about.

Since I also own some Schott Artistic and Simax I will also do some of my own testing. At the same time, same torch settings, same chemistry this weekend. Sorry I only have these two boro clears in right now.
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  #20  
Old 2009-11-27, 9:33pm
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here's a couple of implosion mibs made using schott with silver fume/cobalt blue (left) and amber purple, onyx (right). sorry to those with limited bandwidth but this image is rather large

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  #21  
Old 2009-11-27, 10:07pm
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I noticed some problems years ago with (the case I bought ) of Schott.
Some of my favorite beads are base of Ruby strike 4 with green exotic frit then clear.
When I clear coat them with schott I just get a really ho hum green blobs in a bead type of bead. When encased with simax the result is very dramatic, and one of my favorite beads.
So I have a case of punty's.
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  #22  
Old 2009-11-29, 7:26am
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schott gets a bad rap. i know at least 10-15 blowers who use it exclusively(including some of the biggest names in the industry).

the silver colors look better on the outside of schott than any other brand imo. the inside encasement issues are a learning curve. the four brand comparison has too many variables(torch chemistry, tanked or concentrator, user error, torch and gas pressure settings)

northstar uses schott, simax and kimble for cullet so schott can't be all bad.
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  #23  
Old 2009-11-29, 9:52am
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The only thing I don't like Schott for is implosions. Use it exclusively for everything else. Very buttery and smooth melting clear.
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  #24  
Old 2009-11-30, 5:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjmarchwinds View Post
schott gets a bad rap. i know at least 10-15 blowers who use it exclusively(including some of the biggest names in the industry).

the silver colors look better on the outside of schott than any other brand imo. the inside encasement issues are a learning curve. the four brand comparison has too many variables(torch chemistry, tanked or concentrator, user error, torch and gas pressure settings)

northstar uses schott, simax and kimble for cullet so schott can't be all bad.
Schott isn't all bad... for some applications, it may work just fine... for implosions with silver colors, it sucks... plain and simple, it doesn't do what I need it to do... the silver leaches into the glass in a weird fashion... might look great under a silver color if you're applying it to the outside.... but for what i teach, it sucks bad... Simax is much better for what i need...

and I'm not sure regular Schott ever gave me this issue... Schott Artistic is different... I'll try to nail that question down with some experimentation...
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  #25  
Old 2009-12-07, 8:06pm
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from what i hear its a very slight difference in the chemical composition

schott duran
SiO2 B2O3 Na2O + K2O Al203
81% 13% 4% 2%
http://www.us.schott.com/labware/eng...ies/index.html

Simax
SiO2 B2O3 Al2O3 Na2O + K2O
80.4% 13% 2.4% 4.2%
http://www.pegasus-glass.com/simax.asp

as you can see the differences in the sodium oxide + potassium oxide differs by 0.2% which is enough to give a different effect on silver colors.

i found this out the hard way, and tried to supsitute schott for simax, then we had a world of difference with BM, aurora, AP, exotic red, blue carmel, and other silver colors.

yea some people love it. try mixing stringer of NS exlt yellow with schott and you will get some nice irridecent blues. some colors look like they are glowing. i see lots of art with this effect and was wondering how come my colors dont come out like that....its all in the clear...Abe, Paul and i were talking about this at the Flame off this year.

pick your clear and stick with it if you want consistancy.

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=4855591
here is another interesting read on the invention of borosillicate glass in 1880 i found while looking for those formulas.

and another intersting read on all the different types of borosilicate that schott makes,
http://www.us.schott.com/english/dow...s_guide_us.pdf

Last edited by oldschooltofu; 2009-12-07 at 8:17pm.
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  #26  
Old 2009-12-08, 1:50am
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great post tofu. personally i've never had an issue with schott artistic, i don't do too many implosions anymore but when i do they look amazing. plus i've had cracking issues with simax, i find greater stability when working solid schott.
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  #27  
Old 2009-12-08, 2:56am
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Great post Tofu, thanks for the information.

I was Brent's T.A. at a class in Portland when the issue started showing up. In fact it was funny because he was not getting the results he normally got with his silver glass implosions. He was puzzled but knew something was different about the way the clear was acting. Only later did we find out they had changed clears to Schott Artistic and had not told him.

When I got home I went to Schott's website and looked at all their different products. I sent an email asking for the specs specifically for Schott ARTISTIC but have not heard back from them yet.

We did side by side comparisons with implosions done with Simax and with Schott Artistic... there was an amazing difference.

Thank you for posting the specs.

Otter
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  #28  
Old 2009-12-09, 4:34am
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I'd be really interested in finding out if there's a difference between Schott and Schott Artistic... I've used the original Schott clear before and never got this weird result... I suspect they are producing this in another plant or having it made and slapping their name on it.

Like Otter said, this studio I was teaching at had switched from Simax, without telling me... I have encountered this with Schott Artistic before, but when it happened on what i thought was Simax, I was seriously scratching my head... then it dawned on me to ask if they had switched clear... I was so relieved when they said "Yeah, now we use Schott Artistic"... with all the variables we already face using silver colors, I just wanted folks to know there is a difference in the clears as well.

I'll stick with Simax for most of what I do... it plays well with the colors I like...

Thanks for adding to the discussion and posting the formulas... neat stuff...
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  #29  
Old 2009-12-09, 9:30am
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There was quite a bit of discussion here regarding opinions on SBA, including some posts on SBA and Duran.
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