perfume bottle stoppers

menty666 · #1 2008-07-28, 5:02am

I finally made a bottle I'm reasonably proud of and I wanted to make the stopper/applicator to go along with it.

But the thing I can't figure out is how you size the top of the stopper without pushing hot glass into the neck, which could then shatter the thing.

I know Don's working on a neat new tool, but in the mean time......Help?

Sarabella · #2 2008-07-28, 5:19am

If you make the stopper conical in shape you can try it out when it cools then figure out where you need to stop -so to speak - or try out a similar object to find the size and use that as a guide? Just some random thoughts.

Sals

gwacie · #3 2008-07-28, 5:42am

Make it too large then use a grinder to grind down the part that goes into the bottle. the roughness of the ground surface will also make a nice gripper to help it stay in place.

menty666 · #4 2008-07-28, 6:01am

My problem is I do try to eyeball it, making it a touch larger to I can grind the fit a la the Suellen Fowler video. But it always seems I'm off by far too much to reasonably grind it down. Grinding seems to be for .5mm or so. I'm off by 1-2.

I might try flaring the bottle opening next time to compensate for my own quirks. Of course flaring the opening is probably a good idea overall anyway.

This bottle may just go topless

jjglass · #5 2008-07-28, 6:14am

You could use premade joints in which case you don't have to worry about it, they will fit perfectly. Another option is to heat the bottle in the kiln first, wait for a skin to form on the stopper then slip it in to get the right size. Also, if you make a bit of a graduated stopper, it should seal anyway as the stopper will get thicker and fill the opening as it goes down.

Anyway, hope it helps!

pam · #6 2008-07-28, 6:25am

After my soft glass bottles are annealed, I make the stopper by gathering on the end of the rod and decorating the stopper, then puntying with clear glass, and pulling a taper. Once the taper is cool enough to be hard, I sit it in the bottle for just a mili-second to size it. I haven't had one break yet, but.......

menty666 · #7 2008-07-28, 6:34am

yeah, I was a little skittish because I had a piece of the neck break off as it is while I was finishing it. PPP.

Thanks everyone!

pipyr · #8 2008-07-28, 4:51pm

You could measure the diameter of the opening and mark the measurement somewhere on your table or on a piece of paper and hold the stopper to it to check for proper size? I use paper to draw out measurements all the time and hold the hot glass up to it. Works well for me

menty666 · #9 2008-07-28, 6:08pm

that's true...I jot plaster and silica weights on my bench all the time.

wickedglass · #10 2008-07-29, 8:25am

if you have a hex or octagonal reamer to size out the hole in the neck then the taper is a standard scientific taper. which means it tapers down 1mm for every 1cm of length (ie if the large end is 5mm diameter then 1cm below that it should be 4mm). you can get grinding plates from a scientific glassblowing supplier which have that exact same taper. once you have one, weld it on the end of a holder (steel rod), heat up your glass and push it into that. that way the taper of your hole and the taper of your stopper is exactly the same. make the stopper slightly larger, get some 220 grit and grind it in. that way you get a better seal that just smooth glass and your stopper won't get stuck in the neck.
hope that made sense ...

menty666 · #11 2008-07-29, 8:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wickedglass

if you have a hex or octagonal reamer to size out the hole in the neck then the taper is a standard scientific taper. which means it tapers down 1mm for every 1cm of length (ie if the large end is 5mm diameter then 1cm below that it should be 4mm). you can get grinding plates from a scientific glassblowing supplier which have that exact same taper. once you have one, weld it on the end of a holder (steel rod), heat up your glass and push it into that. that way the taper of your hole and the taper of your stopper is exactly the same. make the stopper slightly larger, get some 220 grit and grind it in. that way you get a better seal that just smooth glass and your stopper won't get stuck in the neck.
hope that made sense ...

Kinda

I'm not so sure I'd want to buy seal sets though since they won't match the rest of the bottle. I thought about it though..

wickedglass · #12 2008-07-30, 3:45am

ok, I didn't make sense, lol.
The steel grinding plates are conical in shape with the same taper as the reamer. They're hollow so you can stuff glass into them and it will get the same conical shape. Basically you heat the end of the glass rod up and press it into the steel cone, pull it out again and the glass will be shaped. It's hard for me to explain but so easy to do. I think I might do a tute soon.

jjglass · #13 2008-07-30, 4:12am

Do you have a link for that tool or a picture? I checked Wale and a few other scientific glass supply resources and haven't been able to find them. Sounds like a handy little tool!

Rob · #14 2008-07-30, 5:24am

make the stopper and then grind the stopper in the bottle with powdered (fine grain) carbide. It will grind the two to match and create a liquid "tight" seal- although it reality its only nearly liquid tight.

menty666 · #15 2008-07-30, 7:50am

Ohh....thanks Wicked, that makes more sense

fyrsmith (Don) is working on a graphite tool that's similar. I guess he's going to be doing them in conjunction with Weaver.

I managed to get one ground last night to "lock" into place, but the other won't do it, it's possible the applicator's still hitting the bottom, so I think at this point I'm just going to sell it with the caveat of no volatile liquids.

Pics later, work keeps interrupting..

ETA:

Here's a picture of my favorite of the two:

http://munkinarts.com/images/blogpic...207302008b.jpg

wickedglass · #16 2008-07-31, 8:00am

here we go, you're gonna hate me. I searched for these core grinding bits in english and german, I have no idea what the exact name is and I came up with nothing. BUT I do have some pictures. another way of doing this is to get two strips of steel, lay them along the taper of your reamer and weld the strips together at that angle. The steel should be thick enough to not bend easily. put a handle on the point of the V shape you've just made and you have a core tool.
anyway, here's a short tute on how I make my stoppers, sorry about the background "noise" in the photos, but if a messy desk is the sign of an orderly mind, I wonder what an orderly desk is?

menty666 · #17 2008-07-31, 8:03am

Nice bottle! I love the color work on the outside

fyrsmith · #18 2008-08-11, 11:02am

Yep, that's how my tool works too, except that instead of a steel taper for the stopper, I have a block with a series of 10:1 holes in it. This gives you a larger range of sizes. With vessel on punty, use 10:1 reamer to form neck taper. Note how far reamer goes into neck. Leave vessel on punty and put in kiln. Find appropriate size hole in block with reamer. Make stopper, checking against vessel on punty for fit. Punty stopper at tip and make top (handle), take off punty and put it in kiln. Take vessel off punty and put back in kiln. When cool, a little grinding with rock tumbling grit will make them fit exactly. I will be demoing this at AGI. The tool can be seen on my blog at fyrsmith.blogspot.com. Also, I did a whole pile of tiny vessels this way for the vessel exchange. Check out post #276 in the vessel exchange thread in the patio.

-Don-

menty666 · #19 2008-08-11, 11:07am

Hey Don, when are you and Weaver going to start selling these?

Kick Leon in the hiney if you need to heheheh

fyrsmith · #20 2008-08-11, 11:25am

Put in a call to Leon today, seems he has moved up/out/into admin and there is a guy named Nathanael working on my stuff, but he is at the Gathering. I'll keep you informed.

-Don-

fyrsmith · #21 2010-04-27, 6:48pm

Hi, everyone.
Thanks for the inquiry. The tool is now in production, parts made by various companies. Listed on Etsy.

patienthand · #22 2010-04-28, 7:09am

ok, here is a hint..... you can use a tapered reemer for the neck... and on arrow srings there is a graphite tool that has the same degree of taper as the reemers except its for the male portion, use it like to you would to roll a bead etc, and ta da you have matching tapers and they can be easily ground together.

Candice

kiko · #23 2010-04-28, 9:14am

I do them the same way as Pam. I've never had a boro vessel crack especially since they have already been through an annealing cycle. Usually I make the stopper the next day. You could use a digital caliper to measure the opening and then eyeball it. IMO the fit should be really close before grinding.

queenofswords · #24 2010-04-29, 11:15pm

I am fairly new to this but am an old hat at antique perfume bottles. What came to my simplistic mind was to try all my clear rod until I found one that fit in the neck of the bottle , make a pretty marble then take the rod I have chosen put a maria on the end and mount the marble to it, cut the rod portion to go halfway into the bottle then heat the tip to round it off. Does this make sense? I can see it in my head. HMMMM think I will go make one.

wickedglass · #25 2010-04-30, 1:49am

queenofswords, you will find that the stopper won't be tight enough to stop the perfume from evaporating. You need to make a taper to be able to get a proper seal. But then ... We all travel our own path to discovery.