Reduction and the Rod Warmer

[2tumblingdragonz]

I have the curling iron heater type rod warmer. I am starting to notice red on some of my rods when they come out of there. Reduction?

I had a chunk of zimmerman gold ruby (I think that's the name) frit that I was heating to pull stringer from. I started noticing the rods that were near that were coming out black, were they being fumed?

this led me to wonder if leaving chunks of silver or reduction glass either in or on top of the rod warmer was in essense, no pun intended, putting the toxic fumes into the air?

Could the reduction marks be from silver or gold residue being on the metal plate that the rods rest on so they don't stick to the ceramic innards of the warmer or could it be from a reaction with whatever the metal plates are made from?

they are the stainless steel, again, I think they are stainless steel, plates that devardi sells for it's rod warmers.

I tried a piece of fiber blanket in there but the rods got fiber stuck to them.

just wonderin' if anyone has some clues for moi?

thank you

namaste
Rowyn

[LarryC]

Dont know if it's reduction but if the rods are picking up residue then it sounds like the warmer is too hot. Should not be heating rods to the softening point. Is there an adjustment for the temperature?

[2tumblingdragonz]

Thanks Larry,

No there is no adjustment. My father keeps saying he'll put a dimmer switch on for me, ummmmmmmm.....maybe some day.

I guess I'll have to pressure my father, sigh....

it's only some colours and seems to be recently.

it's hot enough that if I run out of gas and have to change cans, I can put the bead in the warmer and change the can, pick the bead and and reintroduce it to the flame. comes in handy, that way!

thanks for the answer
namaste
Rowyn

[squid]

Red turns black when it is heated, so black on your gold ruby makes perfect sense.

And silver fumes, while a mild irritant, are not dangerous.

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~toxmetal/m...ns/silver.html

Is silver harmful to humans? Unlike other metals such as lead and mercury, silver is not toxic to humans and is not known to cause cancer, reproductive or neurological damage, or other chronic adverse effects. Nor has normal day-to-day contact with solid silver coins, spoons or bowls been found to affect human health. This is because solid silver is almost completely biologically inert, and even if ingested, would pass through the human body without being absorbed into tissues.

In very high doses — such as those a factory worker might encounter in an accident — or from prolonged exposure to silver dust or fumes, silver can have some mostly mild effects on health. For example, inhaling silver fumes or dust may irritate mucous membranes or the upper respiratory tract.

Occasionally, sensitive individuals suffer allergic reactions — contact dermatitis or eye irritation — after exposure to powdered silver, silver solutions or dental fillings. Similarly, skin creams containing silver compounds (silver nitrate and silver sulphadiazine) cause local skin discoloration in certain sensitive individuals. Ingesting silver compounds, such as in medicines, can sometimes irritate the stomach.

Prolonged exposure to silver dust or to the silver compounds in medicines or supplements can also result in a permanent blue-gray staining of the eyes, nose, mouth, throat and skin. This blue-gray staining is known medically as “argyria.” The condition can make people look ill, as if they suffering from lack of oxygen. Once a person turns blue from argyria, the skin coloring is unfortunately permanent. Most medical professionals believe argyria is the most serious known health effect of silver on humans. Aside from its permanent cosmetic effect, argyria is not believed to pose any other risk to human health.

The mild, observed human health effects of silver exposure appear to be highly variable from one person or situation to another. Scientists have not identified exposure levels that can be generalized as harmful.

[2tumblingdragonz]

Thanks Squid.

that's not really what I meant, though. I had effetre pink alabaster turn brown after being next to the chunk of gold ruby in the rod warmer.

today, tuquoise copper green turned red after being in the rod warmer. I forget which colours have done that recently, turned either red or brown after being in contact with the metal plate in the rod warmer.

I was under the impression that good ventilation is needed when using silver glass so I wondered if leaving chunks of silver glass on top of the rod warmer could cause the same whatever if there's no ventilation system, yet.

silver is a great compound, I am glad to see I'm not the only one around here who uses it medicinally.

back to the reduction...since certain of the blues...sky blue and I think turquoise blue have been said to turn red on a HH, while this has not happened to me I thought maybe that's what's happening in the rod warmer 'cause I really don't know what that plate is made from. I do have a rod of lauscha gold melon in there right now.

I just don't get why a rod would turn colour in the rod warmer, a colour that remains when the rod cools, turns kind of a poo colour.

As for the fuming, it's more my furkids I'm worried about than me. However, I didn't think the metals would fume if they weren't in the flame.

namaste
Rowyn

[RSimmons]

You could be getting some reduction on the frit, depending on how sensitive the colorant is to heat. Many of the blue and turquoise glasses will go red (copper crystalization)very easily. I don't believe that the curling iron warmers get hot enough to fume silver from glass.

Robert

[PattyK]

Squid - thanks so much for the information on silver. Very useful!

[New2glassgal]

Rowyn, the same thing happens to some of my glasses when I put them in my rod warmer. I don't have a problem with the coloring after putting it in the flame and making a bead excpet for copper green. That color does turn that reduction livery color in the warmer and then when its in the flame and starts to cool it looks ok but when it comes out the kiln its livery again. But i think its my user error. But yes some of them do keep that ugly color on them. As for the fumes. IDK
The curling iron rod warmers, heat stoves, whatever there called can get from 800 to 900 degrees. But, I do get annoyed with the ugly color thing. Lol

[NLC Beads]

Copper green and turquoise can go livery when reduced. Use a more exygen rich flame or soak them in The Works to remove it. (Or etch them, if you want them matte.)

I don't use a rod warmer, so I'm of no use to that question...

[Lyssa]

Sorry for highjacking the thread, but what is "The Works"?

Thanks!

Originally Posted by NLC Beads

Copper green and turquoise can go livery when reduced. Use a more exygen rich flame or soak them in The Works to remove it. (Or etch them, if you want them matte.)

I don't use a rod warmer, so I'm of no use to that question...

[rosemarie23]

Originally Posted by Lyssa

Sorry for highjacking the thread, but what is "The Works"?

Thanks!

Toilet Bowl Cleaner.
http://www.theworkscleans.com/toiletcleaner.html

[2tumblingdragonz]

Thanks, ongoing to everyone. I think the works is a toilet bowl cleaner, not sure, and Aimee, ya never have to apologise for asking a question in one of my threads. This whole hijacking a thread thing is something that, well, I'll leave it as I'm flexible and open to wherever the thread goes if it's expanding somebody's knowledge. I can always reask my questions if the topic goes askew.

I'm on a HH so o2 ain't gonna happen YET, I'm saving my pennies for an oxycon however Nikki, you still answered the question....I'm having a reduction issue.

Robert, it's a size 4 huge chunk of zimmerman dk. gold ruby, 1 piece that did reduce to a charred looking black just hanging out forgotten in the warmer. I haven't heated it back up, yet. I had forgotten that it was in the rod warmer and it had gotten pushed to the back. When the pink rod came out brown I remembered it was in there. Come to think of it, where is that piece??? time to question the cat again....oh Zodhy, where are you?

it's weird cause it's not on the glass I've wound onto the mandrel, it's just a speck, large speck on the rod that's in the warmer, I'm thinking maybe if I let the end cool a bit more before placing it back in the warmer it won't happen. I haven't noticed it in the beads next time I use the rod, hmmmmm.

Since it seems to be either colours/glass that burns-alabaster pinks and the turquoise which are subject to that livery colour methinks that it is the reaction of the hot rod that's touching the metal plate. otherwise it would be on my bead.

ETA: seems like it's not the warmer, I just tried the rod, don't see the red/liver colour in the bead, but the rod livered and I didn't put it back in the warmer. It's just a patch of it, though, hmmmmm, also I'm using propane tonight not mapp.

MartiAnn, I haven't had it happen with regular copper green nor red copper green, just today with turuqoise copper green that I used for the first time---love love love that colour~


thanks again, everyone
namaste
Rowyn

[RSimmons]

Leaving it hot and exposed to the atmosphere in the warmer for a long time can surely mess with the surface chemistry of the the glass. I've seen chunk aventurine turn to poop if it stays in the warmer a little too long. Remember that, as a rule, heat speeds up chemical reactions so things that might happen slowly over time at room temp will happen much faster at 850 degrees. Propane and MAPP are different gas mixtures and can also cause altered reduction effects. You will have much better control when you get that oxycon.

Robert

[cheng076]

I measured the temp of my 'rod heater' at 960 degF so you may be getting a striking affect.

[2tumblingdragonz]

Dizzy, I'm so dizzy my head is spinning.....

thanks you guys. YUP, just as I figured, I shouldn't a left that chunk of frit in there for who knows how many days.

chunks of z99 that I was gonna pull into stringer actually devitrified on top of the murrini plate as well as inside.

OOOH, if I can strike glass in my rod warmer what a concept, I do believe mine is a good 960, it's hot as a mfr. I do get reduction on the copper green when it's in there. Now if I could figure out a way to raise the 02 level in there I could have some fun.

Thanks as always, I'm so glad you are able to help and explain things to me in ways that I understand.

namaste
Rowyn