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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2010-12-27, 11:33am
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Glass Savant
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Join Date: Nov 02, 2010
Location: Island in the Bay
Posts: 95
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Help selecting a starter kiln...
So I have decided that it is time to buy a kiln. I love working with glass too much not to have one. I have done some looking around but I know nothing about the quality of the various brands. My budget is rather limited (currently unemployed), so I am looking for a good and cheap kiln. I just have a hothead so I am not making anything too large. I will prob still batch anneal so I don't really need it to have a bead door (I'm a little ADD so I only make a couple pieces at a time), although if the price is right, they do look cool. I may like to try fusing some day so having that capability is a plus but maybe not necessary. Also I prob should get a digital controller because knowing my self I will have trouble with manual control.
So I ask you LE members, what are the good starter kilns? What kiln did you start with? Were you happy with it, or did you quickly find your self looking for a better/bigger one? Any help is appreciated.
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-Jay
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2010-12-27, 11:36am
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A True Woofer
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Join Date: Jun 13, 2005
Location: the land of nod
Posts: 3,895
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I started with a Paragon Caldera, but soon found it was too small. I then went to a Chili Pepper, and found that I wanted a brick kiln. So then I moved up to the GlassHive kiln, which I love. I have since bought a Glass Hive WideGuy so I have lots and lots of room.
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Ellen
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2010-12-27, 11:44am
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Curmudgeon Engineering
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Join Date: Feb 15, 2006
Location: Near Seattle, WA
Posts: 1,723
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I buillt my own 'first' kiln. It was wide, low and one brick deep and worked well for beads. I moved to doing more marbles and it was still adequate. Then I started doing some sculptural stuff so I needed a taller kiln. I went to an AIM 64 with an extra ring, I believe the number is, and use it 95% of the time; still mostly marbles and pendents. I did come across a nice Paragon at a very good price but rarely use it....yet! What I'm saying is that you might carefully consider what the near future holds in terms of your work and go for one that fits those parameters and wait until your work requires a larger or different kiln. In the beginning we often think we will graduate to many different types of work but more often than not some facet will really grab us and that is where we will pretty much stay on a day to day basis with minor excursions into other areas.
PJH
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2010-12-27, 12:07pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 31, 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 2,210
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I have 4 kilns of various configurations, and find that I use my Chili Pepper the most. I don't get much time to torch, and it seems like the Chili Pepper is just the right size, heats up really fast, and has been very reliable so far.
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Kathy
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2010-12-27, 12:16pm
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honorary bead lady
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2008
Location: Mostly the doghouse
Posts: 5,180
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Like PJ said you can build your own annealer.
I purchased a large pottery kiln (before I realised that it was too big) added a digital controller, and it is fine for fusing/slumping.
I made a mail box annealer and controller, kinda following Mark's tutorials and then purchased a used Jen-Ken Kiln.
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2010-12-27, 12:33pm
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Hobby Junkie
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Join Date: Dec 08, 2009
Location: Perkasie, PA
Posts: 1,967
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I love my Glasshive kiln. DH actually got it on ebay, cheap. I've been running it non-stop for about 3 years and haven't had any issues with it.
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Cori C-R
PS - This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated.
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2010-12-27, 12:51pm
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The Crazy One
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Join Date: Jun 05, 2005
Location: Lococabana, OR
Posts: 7,008
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Glass Hive is the way to go, NO ONE can beat their customer service and the quality is great! They will also set up a layaway for you, if you need it.
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loco
Still crazy after all these years...
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2010-12-27, 12:56pm
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Tweedle Dumb
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Join Date: Jan 16, 2009
Location: Dolphins are just gay sharks.
Posts: 1,934
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Glasshive. Fo' shizel.
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2010-12-27, 1:10pm
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Salt Box Beads
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Heading to Paradise
Posts: 4,161
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Bluebird is another one or you could make a toolbox annealer yourself, if you are handy.
Lorraine
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2010-12-27, 1:20pm
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Oooooh Sparkly!
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Join Date: Jun 21, 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 345
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I would be lost without my glasshive kiln !
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Lili
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2010-12-27, 1:45pm
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Nikki Haverstock
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Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 1,686
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Is there any detailed tutorials on how to make your own kiln?
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2010-12-27, 3:43pm
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Glass Savant
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Join Date: Nov 02, 2010
Location: Island in the Bay
Posts: 95
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Thanks everyone for the responses so far.
I am usually pretty handy but I'm not sure I want to build something that has the potential to burn my house down. I'll have to think on that one....
I had not seen the Glass Hive kilns yet and they are looking pretty good. Here is what I have found in my search for low priced (below $600), digital control kilns....
"126 LITE"???
$549.99 free shipping
Interior - 12.5" X 12.5" W X 6" D
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kiln-glass-126-L...item4aa353379b
Glass Hive - The Short Guy
$550 free shipping
Interior - 6.5" deep x 9" wide x 4.5" tall
http://theglasshive.com/BEADANNEALERS.html
Jen-Ken - Chili Pepper
$499 + $42 shipping
Interior - 16" x 4.5 " x 6"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...250#vi-content
*(Drawback- no fusing)
Has anyone ever heard of that first kiln I listed?
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-Jay
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2010-12-27, 5:20pm
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honorary bead lady
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Join Date: Jan 14, 2008
Location: Mostly the doghouse
Posts: 5,180
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The first one is from Mackilns they are a reseller and Marvin is a member here
2nd is from Mike (GlassFreak) who is a contributing member here
and the Chili pepper from Jen-Ken is the old standard for annealing kilns for lampworkers.
If you are handy...
http://www.wetcanvas.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162187
Here's the annealer I made...
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ilbox+annealer
I took most of the metal liner out except the very top where the screws are mounted.
If I were to do it again I would make it all out of soft brick.
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2010-12-27, 10:43pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 09, 2010
Location: Lowell Michigan
Posts: 144
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I've been eyeballing the Fishbone from Evenheat. Does anyone know anything about them? I know I love my Studio 8. I like the looks of the Fishbone for some reason.
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"Whether you believe that you can or believe that you can't, you're probably right." Henry Ford
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2010-12-28, 12:40am
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Salt Box Beads
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Heading to Paradise
Posts: 4,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polgarra
Is there any detailed tutorials on how to make your own kiln?
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I LOVE your avatar. Who is that lovely face?
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2010-12-28, 5:04am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jun 15, 2007
Location: Powell Ohio
Posts: 423
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Paragon's are great I find the other's have very small doors. If you are going to do other things then Beads then it is to hard to get things inside. Dan
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2010-12-28, 7:11am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 01, 2005
Posts: 2,159
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From your list I'd go with the Glasshive. If you are considering going off into other areas like slumping and fusing you might look at a Skutt GM10 with a bead door. It has a greater temp range and holds more programs. I have Glasshive and Skutt and am very pleased with both of them.
Robert
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Robert Simmons
(Former) Director for Bead Donations
Beads of Courage, Inc.
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2010-12-28, 7:42am
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Did someone say SALE?
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Join Date: Aug 20, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 995
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I have the Skutt GM10 with a bead door and it has worked very well. The only thing I would change is to make it wider, but as a hobbyist, it is not all that necessary for me. But I would prolly get a glasshive if I decide to do more beads.
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Beth
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2010-12-28, 9:12am
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Butterfly Rancher
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Join Date: May 08, 2006
Location: Colorado newbie
Posts: 5,827
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If you think you want to fuse, check the kiln's specs to be sure that it'll go to at least 1450 degrees. Most glass fusing kilns go to at least 1600 degrees.
I started in fusing with a Paragon Caldera. I can't remember exactly when but I think it was 8 or so years ago. When I added lampworking a couple of years later, I just added the bead door. The kiln has been completely trouble-free and very versatile. I've done fusing, PMC, lampworking, pot melts, slumping... If I was going to buy a bead annealer, I'd go with Glasshive since I always hear stellar reviews of his kilns and his customer service.
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May 2014 -- Good-bye Florida and Hello Colorado
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2010-12-28, 11:01am
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Gentleman of Leisure
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Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: A Little Bit West of Yosemite Valley
Posts: 5,200
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Don't get to hung up on word "kiln" there is also the term "burn out oven"... Which is basically a kiln that is uses for melting wax out of molds for "lost wax casting" process....
What to look for in a kiln.... Basically is size, something with a 12x12x9 inch chamber is about minimum size and with a front opening door, door can be side or guillotine isn't really to critical just try to avoid door hinged at bottom as you will constantly be putting glass in over hot door.... As for control's a infinite switch is minimum but digital is better, some ceramic kilns have a "kiln sitter" type of control that rely on a piece of ceramic material to melt at a given temperature to shut kiln off, this is really no control.... Keep in mind if you are handy or know somebody with some knowledge a kiln can be modified to ultimately accept a digital controller.... Also electrical power is a consideration... Large kilns usually require 220 volts so if you studio does not as 220 volt outlet your sort of out of luck... Most "small" kiln /ovens draw about 13 to 15 amps so it may even be necessary to put in a dedicated circuit for kiln (15 amp circuit is at near maximum with a lot of kilns so a 20 amp circuit would be better)...
New kilns are great to have and we like anything new and shinny, but if there is budget issues or you are just plain frugal, skip looks and go for function, if you find one that is "ugly" but works that is all that matters.... Sources besides new may be word of mouth, e-bay, or craigslist or any other "swap" areas of I-Net even garage sale portions of glass forums...
Dale
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San Francisco - A Few Toys Short of a Happy Meal
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2010-12-29, 4:43pm
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Glass Savant
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Join Date: Nov 02, 2010
Location: Island in the Bay
Posts: 95
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Thanks again for all the great responses. I looked at all the suggested kilns. The only problem with most of them is the price (I really would like to keep this under $600).
I think that right now I am leaning towards the Mac Kilns 126 LITE. It is almost twice as big as the same priced Glasshive. The only thing missing is a bead door but as I said in my first post, I think I will still batch anneal. The Chili Pepper is slightly cheaper but it does not give me the possibility of trying fusing.
I'm gonna sleep on it a couple more days....
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-Jay
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2010-12-29, 5:09pm
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Nikki Haverstock
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Join Date: Oct 10, 2010
Location: NW Colorado
Posts: 1,686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine Chandler
I LOVE your avatar. Who is that lovely face?
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2010-12-29, 6:45pm
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Aug 01, 2005
Posts: 2,159
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There's a saying from my woodworking days: The most expensive tool you'll ever buy is a cheap one. Stretch yourself if you have to and buy the very best that you can manage and you'll be happier in the long term. You won't find yourself having to replace or add new stuff to get the results you want as your skill level increases.
Robert
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Robert Simmons
(Former) Director for Bead Donations
Beads of Courage, Inc.
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2010-12-30, 12:45am
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Unmedicated since '62
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Join Date: Jan 18, 2009
Location: Hunter Valley, Australia
Posts: 5,907
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i have a paragon bluebird xl - love it
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Deb
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2013-03-01, 9:25am
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Junior Member
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Join Date: Jan 16, 2010
Location: Ontario
Posts: 1
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I have a fishbone and paragon 14" with Orton controller.
Love the size of the Fishbone, even use it for small classes.
I'm having a problem with it right now, which is why I'm even reading this thread somethings not working right and it's taking a long time to heat up, when it used to take 5 minutes. It's a new design, so I was just wondering if this was happening to others too? I prefer the Orton controller, or any controller that doesn't require a calculator to program it. But you can get used to almost anything. I'll look into the other kilns suggested.
peace & love, natali
www.natali.ca
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2013-03-02, 12:20am
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Slogan Challenged...
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Maricopa, Arizona
Posts: 6,274
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I have a MAC kiln, I got the one with no controller which I have not found to be a problem as I batch anneal. It's worked great. Well-packed. I was impressed.
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2013-03-02, 3:52am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Mar 14, 2012
Location: Bennington, VT
Posts: 1,776
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natali baird
I have a fishbone and paragon 14" with Orton controller.
Love the size of the Fishbone, even use it for small classes.
I'm having a problem with it right now, which is why I'm even reading this thread somethings not working right and it's taking a long time to heat up, when it used to take 5 minutes. It's a new design, so I was just wondering if this was happening to others too? I prefer the Orton controller, or any controller that doesn't require a calculator to program it. But you can get used to almost anything. I'll look into the other kilns suggested.
peace & love, natali
www.natali.ca
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my guess is your elements are getting near the end of their life.
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