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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-02-06, 5:22pm
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melissabeads melissabeads is offline
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Default I need a new torch!! Help!

I made the coolest sculptural piece today and lost it.. CRACK!!!

I really need some advice on what torch to buy. I have a National 8M.. I like to do detail work....but I would like something with a bushier flame so I can keep larger pieces hot while I am doing detailed work on one end of my piece..

I can't afford any super high dollar torches...so any advice would be greatly appreciated..

Thanks in advance...
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  #2  
Old 2008-02-06, 8:19pm
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Melissa which torch are you running now? and what is your budget....

When I work on sculptural pieces I have to count to 6 while I am working on a detail then heat the entire piece...go back and add more detail making sure to work for only a count of 6...then I heat the entire piece....it is a definite dance back and forth heat...detail work...heat...detail work...etc.

many of my sculptural pieces are created on a Lynx and larger pieces on a Cheetah.
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  #3  
Old 2008-02-06, 8:22pm
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The National 8M has three tips you can interchange. Which one do you have? Maybe you can just get a larger tip.
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  #4  
Old 2008-02-06, 8:47pm
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I was told you needed more oxygen if you went to larger tips...??

I just bought the Mega Minor.. The new kid on the block.

I think it is still the best kept secret for 199.99 on sale. $239.00 regular price. Does boro on one concentrator and I guess it really gets hot on two!

Why not ask who has bought them and how do they like them?
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  #5  
Old 2008-02-06, 8:59pm
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Well, you would need more oxy with a larger tip but the same would go for a new torch with a bushy flame too. There is not that big of a difference between the tips though. I had the small tip and the large tip. I sold it and replaced it with a Red Max.
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  #6  
Old 2008-02-06, 10:04pm
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You can get larger tips for this torch..http://www.sundanceglass.com/national8mtr.html
although you may want to save up for a different torch altogether..depends on what your needs are. It's a great torch for the price but alot of torches out there are much better.
I use one alot and it works well for me but the surface mix tips can easily be beat by the more expensive torches made by GTT, Bethelhem, Carlisle and Herbert Arnold..
There are three surface-mix tips for the 8M.. SM-5, SM-7 & SM-21
I have the SM-7 and the SM-21 for mine, although the SM-21 needs more O2 than the average concentrator will produce to function at it's full potential..
I make 4-6" perfume bottles with mine but that's with boro.. and I mostly use pre-mix tips for that. It's a versatile torch but it does have it's limitations and drawbacks..
As I said I mostly use the pre-mix tips on the ryder attachment with a 15 hole hush-tip for alot of my boro beads..and have made thousands of tiny detailed soft-glass beads with the SM-7 surface-mix tip.
Like Fay said, anything big is going to take a little dancing around, you just need to remind yourself to replenish the heat-base between details before it's too late.
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  #7  
Old 2008-02-07, 12:51pm
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Thanks for all of the great advice.. I actually have an extra tip.. but I am not even sure what I would use it for.. I have the adapter and the OX-O tip.. Why? When I bought my torch 3 yrs ago I was sure I would move to boro, and still haven't really had the desire to do so. That is what came with it.. Of course, not knowing any better at the time, I didn't even question it.

Currently I use the SM-7.

It sounds like moving up to the SM-21 wouldn't be worth it without another oxycon..

Hmmmm.. So what torches are out there that I can get away with using one oxycon and have a bushier flame? Are there any?


I have been "dancing around" quite a bit.. and Fay that is great advice to count to 6. I think I allow myself to get so involved with what I am doing I don't re-heat as quickly as I should..


Beau & Cynthia.. since you are both familiar with the 8M and you have both worked on other torches.. What will I notice if I upgrade?

Thanks everyone!!
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  #8  
Old 2008-02-07, 6:34pm
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I heard that the mini CC's have a bushier flame....bobcat can be adjusted to a bushy flame...
I use a Cheetah...and it has a wider flame that I can make really bushy.

It really depends on your budget on which torches to look at.

One oxycon...hmmm...maybe the bethlehem barracuda...
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  #9  
Old 2008-02-07, 7:33pm
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what kind of concentrator do you have.

A mini will run on one, pretty happily. The knobs stay cooler with a higher psi on the O2 concentrator (like the Devilbiss).

It ROCKS on two concentrators for soft glass.

I'd love to try a hellcat, but I'd need way more oxy.
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  #10  
Old 2008-02-07, 8:00pm
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We run a mini on one oxycon for softglass and it does very well, the torch design creates radiant heat in a fairly wide area which helps to keep glass warm, you still need to flash to keep hot. When working Boro we run two oxy's and it thows out alot of heat without being a big torch. It does 1 inch boro marbles very well. tried a 2 inch and it was slow but it managed. sorry have not used a 8m so don't know how it compares.
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  #11  
Old 2008-02-08, 9:36am
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I have an airsep..

.. I was thinking about a mini.. That was the other torch I considered when I bought this one.. I will try to run over to Glasscraft and try it again next week... I will try a barracuda too.. but I think they are more than I want to spend..

Thanks you guys!
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  #12  
Old 2008-02-08, 10:09am
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If I were rich, I'd have a Hellcat. (mini for the centerflame) and outer for larger pieces...

I've never torched on a Barracuda. I was on Lynx once with liquid O2 -- it was great. wide heat distribution and pinpoint capabilities. But one concentrator isn't enough. I've seen posts where folks run them on 2, though. Maybe you could use some of your new tax "refund" money for a torch and concentrator, and sell your old torch, That should be enough money to cover it!
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  #13  
Old 2008-02-08, 10:15am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissabeads View Post
I have an airsep..

.. I was thinking about a mini.. That was the other torch I considered when I bought this one.. I will try to run over to Glasscraft and try it again next week... I will try a barracuda too.. but I think they are more than I want to spend..

Thanks you guys!
If you are thinking about a Barracuda, you should highly consider a Knight Bullet. They are $250 cheaper, and they are hotter and more oxygen efficient.

I also have a new Cheetah for sale if you are interested. It will be posted in the garage sale in a couple days once I get pics of it, but it's brand new, never been hooked up.
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  #14  
Old 2008-02-08, 10:27am
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I second the Cheetah!! It's a sweet torch for sculptural beads!!
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  #15  
Old 2008-02-09, 11:06am
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Are you able to get a nice pinpoint flame on a cheetah?
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  #16  
Old 2008-02-09, 11:10am
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Quote:
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Are you able to get a nice pinpoint flame on a cheetah?
You can dial it in tight...not as small as the lynx (a pinpoint) more like the tip of a sharpened pencil...maybe narrower...if that helps
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  #17  
Old 2008-02-13, 9:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melissabeads View Post
Thanks for all of the great advice.. I actually have an extra tip.. but I am not even sure what I would use it for.. I have the adapter and the OX-O tip.. Why? When I bought my torch 3 yrs ago I was sure I would move to boro, and still haven't really had the desire to do so. That is what came with it.. Of course, not knowing any better at the time, I didn't even question it.

Currently I use the SM-7.

It sounds like moving up to the SM-21 wouldn't be worth it without another oxycon..
You might want to think about getting another Oxycon now. It will enable you to go to a larger tip on your 8M torch now, and you will have the extra oxygen that you will need when you do replace the 8M with a larger torch.

Quote:
Hmmmm.. So what torches are out there that I can get away with using one oxycon and have a bushier flame? Are there any?
A Mini CC is a great little torch that will give you a bushier flame, but it too would benefit from having the second oxycon. Like I said, you might want to think about upgrading your oxygen before you upgrade your torch.

By the way, I also carry the 8M and all the tips:

http://www.artcoinc.com/national.php

Malcolm
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  #18  
Old 2008-02-13, 11:31am
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I can't compare torches, I've only ever used two...a Minor which I loved until I bought the Carlisle....I love it, too..I'd recommend trying a Carlisle if possible....

Maybe I'm just easy?
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  #19  
Old 2008-02-13, 2:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintingwithglass View Post
You can dial it in tight...not as small as the lynx (a pinpoint) more like the tip of a sharpened pencil...maybe narrower...if that helps

I haven't seen the small point on a Cheetah, but the pinpoint on a Lynx is amazingly small. I can't ever imagine using a flame that small, so I expect a Cheetah would probably dial down small enough for most people, unless they make very tiny beads (in which case I doubt they'd be looking at a Cheetah anyway.)

I think you need a good bit more oxy for a Cheetah, though -- not sure, but I'd look into the oxy requirements if you're considering one.
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