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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2011-09-23, 6:58pm
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 38
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Making Bead Release - Help (Weak)!!
Ive started making my own bead release, but as creamy and smooth that it is, its having a hard time holding when Im trying to make a bead.
Im currently mixing kiln shelf wash and alumina hydrate in equal parts with water (like a thicker pancake mix consistency).
My question is..... is there something I can add to the mix to give it more strength?? Should I adjust the amounts differently?
Any help would be so appreciated! I really dont want to have to go back to shelling out $$ for release if I can make my own for pennies.
Thanks!
Nikki
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-23, 7:18pm
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Cancer SUCKS!
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Deb in MN
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2011-09-23, 7:21pm
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Cancer SUCKS!
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Deb in MN
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2011-09-23, 7:21pm
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Cancer SUCKS!
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
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Deb in MN
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2011-09-24, 12:04am
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I'm meeeeelting
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Join Date: May 27, 2007
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Nikki, that recipe works best a little on the thin side. It's not the hardiest, though. I like it for spacer beads, because it's easy to remove them from the mandrel.
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2011-09-24, 12:28am
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Formerly Deesigned Beads
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Join Date: Aug 29, 2006
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I used to add graphite powder to my mix.
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Diana
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2011-09-24, 1:20am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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No, I hadnt. Thanks! Now to find the ingredients I dont have to make this work, lol. I hope I can find them here in the US!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Hopeful Journeys
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-24, 1:23am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Mine's definitely thinner than I usually like it. Unfortunately, I make larger beads and sculptural so it has to hold up at least a little bit through that process and mine currently isnt holding long enough to get glass wound on the mandrel.
Quote:
Originally Posted by artsyuno
Nikki, that recipe works best a little on the thin side. It's not the hardiest, though. I like it for spacer beads, because it's easy to remove them from the mandrel.
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-24, 1:29am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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I'll try that! Thanks.
How does the graphite benefit the mix, do you know? Is to makes it stronger/holding? Im not partial the graphic.... I hate the mess it makes in my sink when Im removing beads from the mandrels. Yuck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art of Hand
I used to add graphite powder to my mix.
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-24, 1:31am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Thanks Deb!
i read he had some difficulty with getting some off the mandrel. With my fibro... not sure I want to spend that much energy struggling to get the beads off and possibly bending my mandrels.... but Im bookmarking it just in case!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Hopeful Journeys
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-24, 1:36am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Good lord! How on earth am I supposed to heat the alumina hydrate in my kiln to 1200 degrees before I can mix it (when cooled)??? Oh boy....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Hopeful Journeys
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-24, 6:12am
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I fart diamonds
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Join Date: Jun 14, 2005
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
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I mix equal parts kaolin, alumina hydrate & silica. You can also use some bentonite (I save that one for my face & hair. It's an excellent cleanser!). The graphite makes the beads slide off easier. I don't heat anything first and it works great, the beads clean out easily. Run it through your blender for an even smoother mix.
You can get all of the ingredients at a pottery supply store, like Axner. We have one locally, so maybe you do, too. (I ordered my graphite from ebay, years ago but I don't usually put it in my mix. It doesn't really need it.)
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-Shawnette the original "everybody get a grip" girl
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2011-09-24, 6:22am
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I fart diamonds
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Join Date: Jun 14, 2005
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Or you could just order some Alice's. It comes powdered so you're not paying to ship water weight. A 1lb bag lasts a really long time. I suspect her recipe is the same as mine or at least pretty darned close.
http://www.beadrelease.com/
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-Shawnette the original "everybody get a grip" girl
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2011-09-24, 7:10am
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Cancer SUCKS!
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
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I have some unused Alice release in powder form if you are interested in it? Let me know and i can find a price.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette
Or you could just order some Alice's. It comes powdered so you're not paying to ship water weight. A 1lb bag lasts a really long time. I suspect her recipe is the same as mine or at least pretty darned close.
http://www.beadrelease.com/
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Deb in MN
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2011-09-24, 8:49am
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CiM Tamarind-Skinned
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Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette
I mix equal parts kaolin, alumina hydrate & silica. You can also use some bentonite (I save that one for my face & hair. It's an excellent cleanser!). The graphite makes the beads slide off easier. I don't heat anything first and it works great, the beads clean out easily. Run it through your blender for an even smoother mix.
You can get all of the ingredients at a pottery supply store, like Axner. We have one locally, so maybe you do, too. (I ordered my graphite from ebay, years ago but I don't usually put it in my mix. It doesn't really need it.)
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I have a ceramic store local to me and this stuff is CHEAP in 5# bags. Wow! I am thinking of going over and getting the supplies to make some. The only thing that is a little confusing is that some of these powders come in different mesh sizes. what does that mean? Should I get a higher or lower mesh size? I am excited about this!
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Monica
In love with my Sparkly Green GTT Cricket! Running it with an oxycon and cookin' my beads in George Clooney, my Regular Guy GlassHive Kiln (Like George he is Super Hot and Fabulously Grey!). To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2011-09-24, 11:46am
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CiM Tamarind-Skinned
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Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
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Okay, I just got back from the pottery store with 20#'s of everything mentioned she used in her release. I spent just under $18. How is that possible? I hope I got the right stuff. I'll get to mixing and experimenting today. I also found some powdered graphite at a small local hardware. It was $3 for 4oz. I bought one just to give it a try.
Well, here goes nothing! I'll report back later!
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Monica
In love with my Sparkly Green GTT Cricket! Running it with an oxycon and cookin' my beads in George Clooney, my Regular Guy GlassHive Kiln (Like George he is Super Hot and Fabulously Grey!). To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2011-09-24, 3:56pm
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I fart diamonds
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Join Date: Jun 14, 2005
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Posts: 3,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownGirl
Okay, I just got back from the pottery store with 20#'s of everything mentioned she used in her release. I spent just under $18. How is that possible? I hope I got the right stuff. I'll get to mixing and experimenting today. I also found some powdered graphite at a small local hardware. It was $3 for 4oz. I bought one just to give it a try.
Well, here goes nothing! I'll report back later!
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Holy sh*t, girl! 1lb each would have lasted you about a year.
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-Shawnette the original "everybody get a grip" girl
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2011-09-24, 7:48pm
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CiM Tamarind-Skinned
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Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette
Holy sh*t, girl! 1lb each would have lasted you about a year.
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LOL. The 1# bags were half the price. I didn't really know what I was getting so when I told the guy what I wanted, I then paid and he went to the back to weigh it out. He came back with these huge bags. I almost fainted. Oh well. Maybe I'll start my own little bead release company!
I am just thankful it doesn't go bad and I can just store it. I still can't believe I got it all for well under $20. That's crazy. I have been paying almost that for a single container of bead release. That just ticks me off.
__________________
Monica
In love with my Sparkly Green GTT Cricket! Running it with an oxycon and cookin' my beads in George Clooney, my Regular Guy GlassHive Kiln (Like George he is Super Hot and Fabulously Grey!). To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2011-09-24, 8:47pm
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Miata and Sunshine! Yay!
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Join Date: Aug 19, 2007
Location: Lower left coast of FL
Posts: 1,622
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Monica, if you do have your own lil bead release mfg plant going on, and decide to sell any of it, I'd be happy to buy a pound or two from you. I need a really good bead release and kiln wash for my big kiln. Let me know, okay?
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I have enough money to last me for the rest of my life.....unless I buy something.
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Contributing member of the EPIC FLOUNCE thread 2013
Proud member of YOU PEOPLE thread.
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2011-09-24, 9:09pm
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I fart diamonds
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Join Date: Jun 14, 2005
Location: Altamonte Springs, FL
Posts: 3,893
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownGirl
LOL. The 1# bags were half the price. I didn't really know what I was getting so when I told the guy what I wanted, I then paid and he went to the back to weigh it out. He came back with these huge bags. I almost fainted. Oh well. Maybe I'll start my own little bead release company!
I am just thankful it doesn't go bad and I can just store it. I still can't believe I got it all for well under $20. That's crazy. I have been paying almost that for a single container of bead release. That just ticks me off.
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If you got Bentonite & Kaolin, both are excellent masks for your face & hair:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fb...1422189&type=1
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-Shawnette the original "everybody get a grip" girl
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2011-09-25, 12:05am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 38
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Thanks! I'll try that!
Nikki
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnette
I mix equal parts kaolin, alumina hydrate & silica. You can also use some bentonite (I save that one for my face & hair. It's an excellent cleanser!). The graphite makes the beads slide off easier. I don't heat anything first and it works great, the beads clean out easily. Run it through your blender for an even smoother mix.
You can get all of the ingredients at a pottery supply store, like Axner. We have one locally, so maybe you do, too. (I ordered my graphite from ebay, years ago but I don't usually put it in my mix. It doesn't really need it.)
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-25, 12:11am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 38
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Definitely! How much do you have??
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deb Hopeful Journeys
I have some unused Alice release in powder form if you are interested in it? Let me know and i can find a price.
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-25, 12:12am
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**Nikki Mouse**
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Join Date: Mar 01, 2009
Location: Milwaukee, WI
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Cant wait to hear your findings!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrownGirl
Okay, I just got back from the pottery store with 20#'s of everything mentioned she used in her release. I spent just under $18. How is that possible? I hope I got the right stuff. I'll get to mixing and experimenting today. I also found some powdered graphite at a small local hardware. It was $3 for 4oz. I bought one just to give it a try.
Well, here goes nothing! I'll report back later!
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Nikki xx
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2011-09-25, 9:53am
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CiM Tamarind-Skinned
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Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
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Okay so let me just say that I didn't get things mixed until early this morning. Why? Well, fellow torchers, I am a little OCD. I didn't want to use any of my food containers, whisks or measuring devices that I use for food. I went to the Dollar Tree this morning and bought all the mixing supplies and storage containers for the chemicals.
So, now, with my particulate respirator on, I made up a mixture. I have taken notes so I can know what I did in case I have to modify it a little. I sifted it for a long time to get it mixed well and get out the lumps. I mixed in the water and it's sitting now kinda soaking. It looks pretty great, I must say, so far. I am going to let it sit a couple more hours and then I am going to dip some mandrels and try it out. I am so excited!!! If it works good with my torching session later, I would LOVE some feedback so, I will mail out samples for anyone interested if you are willing to pay shipping. I'll get back to you all about that later.
P.S.: Shawnette, I will be asking you more questions about the bentonite as a cleanser later. That link to your Facebook page... well, you look 12 years old and I know you have said before that you have at least one college age kid. If I can look like that, I want to know exactly what to do to get those results! *laughs*
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Monica
In love with my Sparkly Green GTT Cricket! Running it with an oxycon and cookin' my beads in George Clooney, my Regular Guy GlassHive Kiln (Like George he is Super Hot and Fabulously Grey!). To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2011-09-25, 1:27pm
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 14, 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 66
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I would love to be a tester. get back with me regarding shipping, etc.
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2011-09-25, 4:27pm
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CiM Tamarind-Skinned
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Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
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Okay, I made 3 batches. The first batch seemed really really thin so I made a second batch with a little extra of ingredient #3 and added a little less water and still, pretty thin. So I made a third batch with different ingredients and I weighed all the ingredients dry before mixing and added even less water. The 3rd batch was much much thicker. All three batches worked beautifully and perfectly.
Batch 1, while very thin required double dipping. I had to dip the mandrels ( and give them a few seconds to set. By the time I dipped the eighth one, I could go back and dip the first. Kind of a pain but nothing I couldn't work with. By the time all 8 were double dipped, I could flame dry them and then go to work. It worked great and seems fairy tough. I used frit, mashers and did some poking and used my disk roller and not a single one broke.
Batch 2 required double dipping as well. This time I could dip, tap gently and redip immediately. I should mention that this batch, as well as batch one ran. Not all the way down the mandrel but an inch or two past the working area. I could also flame dry these. Again I used frit, mashers, disk roller, tube roller and did some poking and no breakage.
Batch 3 was pretty thick. They did not need to be double dipped. The release clung perfectly and was quite a bit darker in colour than the other two. This mixture could NOT be flame dried. I tried and it sizzled and cracked off. I had to let them air dry while I worked on other mandrels. Once they dried they were super strong and lovely to work on. Lots of frit rolling, mashing and poking with some disk rolling. No breakage at all! They didn't take too Long to dry. I also tried flame drying two of the last ones before they were Completely air dried and since they were mostly set, flame drying them the rest of the way did not hurt them the way flame drying did immediately after being dipped.
Now I have to see how they come off the mandrel. They are either going to be awesome or I just lost 24 mandrels. LOL. More reporting later tonight!
ETA: I have been using some bead release from Frantz that I bought locally. It's great to make a simple bead. However, try working it at all on a slightly abusive level and it always breaks on me. I tend to be pretty heavy handed while I am getting my flame on.
__________________
Monica
In love with my Sparkly Green GTT Cricket! Running it with an oxycon and cookin' my beads in George Clooney, my Regular Guy GlassHive Kiln (Like George he is Super Hot and Fabulously Grey!). To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2011-09-25, 5:10pm
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Cancer SUCKS!
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Join Date: Oct 23, 2005
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 5,083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bastillebleu
Definitely! How much do you have??
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I think it is either 1lb or 2lb. I will check and see if I can find it in my studio. I haven't unpacked everything since the flood.
http://beadrelease.com/
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Deb in MN
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2011-09-25, 6:25pm
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Loving learning
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Join Date: Oct 11, 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 11,654
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I don't clean mine in the sink, I use a jar and pour it out in the garden. I don't know for sure, but don't like the idea of the bead release in the pipes and drain.
Anyone more knowledgeable that can give me some scoop?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastillebleu
I'll try that! Thanks.
How does the graphite benefit the mix, do you know? Is to makes it stronger/holding? Im not partial the graphic.... I hate the mess it makes in my sink when Im removing beads from the mandrels. Yuck.
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2011-09-25, 6:40pm
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CiM Tamarind-Skinned
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Join Date: Apr 28, 2011
Location: Not nearly close enough to the water.
Posts: 426
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Okay, bead release RELEASE report...
Okay, batch #1, having a little trouble on the actual release. I have four mandrels still soaking. The other 4 required a pair of pliers and some banging.
Batch #2 was better. A couple needed some plier grip but no banging.
Batch #3 came loose perfectly. No problems at all. Yay!
__________________
Monica
In love with my Sparkly Green GTT Cricket! Running it with an oxycon and cookin' my beads in George Clooney, my Regular Guy GlassHive Kiln (Like George he is Super Hot and Fabulously Grey!). To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 5 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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2011-09-25, 6:42pm
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flight risk
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Join Date: Oct 05, 2009
Location: Mayberry, USA
Posts: 973
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Let me know if you are still looking for testers...
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Glenda
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