Annealing shocky rods?

Kikki · #1 2005-06-27, 1:21pm

I got a custom order the other day for a whole lot of beads. My customer wanted most of the beads to be made with alabastro or opalino glass.
Some of my rods are fine to work with but an ivory rod I have (and only have 1 of!) is really shocky. Since I only have 1 rod I can't afford to make frit by the shocking method with it.

Is there a chance it will behave more nicely if I run it through a batch annealing cycle? Has anyone tried that successfully?

Kikki

Lynn Larson · #2 2005-06-27, 2:41pm

I have not tried to anneal a rod. When it is a really shocky glass, I just introduce it to the flame much, much slower. I start flashing it slowly in the very end of the flame, about once a second to start, flashing quicker when it starts to glow on the edges. I won't hold it in the flame until the entire end is glowing.

I know some will set the rod in the kiln to warm it.

BillBrach · #3 2005-06-27, 2:50pm

Certain colors are ALWAYS shocky, even if properly annealed. EDP-254 comes to mind. Some of the "ingredients" in the glass really expand at wildly different rates at room temp, leading to bits and pieces. I keep my bench fairly clean and just pick those little bits up with a hot rod and keep on going.

I agree with Lynn, if you know how to introduce a rod slowly, it hardly ever happens.

Heidi von Frozenfyre · #4 2005-06-27, 4:48pm

I like to have the shocky rods thru the peep-hole in my kiln pre-heating. You can also use an electric griddle / frypan to preheat. It will help!

UNLESS it's PIG stix... then toss them all away. My gawd those were awful!!

ChaseDesigns · #5 2005-06-27, 4:50pm

I often pre-heat some of my really shocky rods. Usually adventurine. I just stick it in the kiln and pull it out when I need it. It really helps a lot as some of these rods seem to shock no matter how slow I go, or worse they melt fine to a point, then shock and drop a nice molten blob on my work table.

Greg

cghipp · #6 2005-06-27, 5:34pm

I think running them through an annealing cycle might help, and it can't hurt to try.

My biggest problem with shocky glass is with rods that have a bubble running their entire length. Unfortunately, that can't be annealed away. I have a pound of opal yellow that has so many air bubbles in it, it looks like a lava lamp when I'm winding it on.

Courtney

BillBrach · #7 2005-06-27, 5:41pm

Lets just say that the Italians don't know what the words "quality control" means, and as long as they have a Consumer (the American Lampworker) that doesn't care and will buy ANYTHING, then they will continue to ship their junk rods to us.

Certain colors I've gotten recently (232, and 420 come to mind) are so poorly mixed in the furnace as to be almost unusable.

The 232, a light tourquise, has this bright blue strip down the side of EVERY rod I've gotten in the last two orders. When a bead is wrapped with this stuff, you have this bright blue filament all over your bead. A 6 year old could easily pick out the defect in this glass.

The 420 I've gotten recently, has a wide yellow strip sown almost every rod.

Toozygoot · #8 2005-06-27, 6:20pm

On the other hand, there's Bullseye! An American made glass that is consistently tested and ends up being consistently well behaved. Well, 98% I'd say!

pat

CorriDawn · #9 2005-06-27, 6:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Larson

I have not tried to anneal a rod. When it is a really shocky glass, I just introduce it to the flame much, much slower. I start flashing it slowly in the very end of the flame, about once a second to start, flashing quicker when it starts to glow on the edges. I won't hold it in the flame until the entire end is glowing.

I know some will set the rod in the kiln to warm it.

You flash your rods? hmmm.. how does lifting your shirt help them not be shocky? wouldn't it shock them more?

Heidi, what are PIG rods?

Kikki · #10 2005-06-27, 10:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Travelin'gal

I often pre-heat some of my really shocky rods. Usually adventurine. I just stick it in the kiln and pull it out when I need it. It really helps a lot as some of these rods seem to shock no matter how slow I go, or worse they melt fine to a point, then shock and drop a nice molten blob on my work table.

Greg

This is exacatly what this rod is doing. I hate that!

I'll try with heating it in the kiln tonight.

Kikki

BillBrach · #11 2005-06-28, 4:06am

Another thing I've seen a lot of out of the Italians is what is called "cold pulled" cane.

This means that the cane was still being pulled and stretched when the glass was too cold. The glass freezes while under tension, and this induces a LOT of stress in the glass.

What happens with this type of defect is that small sections of the cane pop off, almost as if you had nipped them off with a nipper, instead of the usual bits and pieces flying off just at the end.

I've had pieces of cane where the whole length was like this and just kept breaking off in 1/4" to 1" long pieces.

This type of defect MIGHT be helped by annealing the cane and it is certainly easy to try this. Just make sure you stay below the softening point of the particular brand of glass.

Kikki · #12 2005-06-28, 4:25am

Thanks Bill.
Do you think it would be OK if I just popped it in the kiln, ramped up slowly and just left it on a shelf on the bottom of the kiln while I work and garage beads as usual? Then anneal it with the rest of the beads? That way it won't be so hot it'll slump.
Will an hour ramping up be slow enough?

MikeAurelius · #13 2005-06-28, 6:01am

We've had moderate success with annealing, especially aventurine. We had a batch of Emerald green (can't think of the number off hand), but it snapped and popped no matter how slowly it was pre-heated.

Bill is certainly correct about the QC issues in Italy - and I think it's getting worse. Must be why all of a sudden we are selling more and more rod warmers. I was wondering why the sudden influx of orders, and now this. I haven't worked with soft glass personally in over a year, so I don't see first handed what's going on.

chrisdd · #14 2005-06-28, 6:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillBrach

I've had pieces of cane where the whole length was like this and just kept breaking off in 1/4" to 1" long pieces.

I've been getting this a LOT and thought I was doing something wrong. Thanks for the insight.

BillBrach · #15 2005-06-28, 12:25pm

I don't think just laying the rod in the bottom of the kiln at 968 F will do any good. Of course, this is real easy to try on your next bead run, so "what the hey", try it and report back.

The softening point is 1050 F (or 1200F, depending on whose web page you check). You need to be to at least that temp. I'd lay it flat in the bottom of the kiln, and add about 20 degrees to the 1050, making that 1070 F.

You need the little higher temp with the rod on the bottom of the kiln, because the floor of the kiln is cooler. And, because the floor of the kiln heats REALLY slow compared to the air in the kiln, you probably need to leave it there 3 hours of more.

Adventurine is a whole 'nother matter. No amount of annealing will really help it, because it is the bits of copper in the cane that make it shock. Copper conducts heat VERY quickly compared to glass and therefore, expands much more quickly.

MikeAurelius · #16 2005-06-28, 12:40pm

OK, let me back up a bit here...what we annealed was the encased aventurine, not the full rod aventurine. THAT stuff, you are on your own...LOL

It's interesting too, because Mikey Frantz sells annealed aventurine rods for a whole bunch extra money, but I don't know anyone who has purchased it. Anyone?

shawnette · #17 2005-06-29, 5:05am

I use a griddle to preheat my rods and I haven't had any problems (except when I didn't preheat). I used a whole rod of Blue Aventurine and it didn't pop once.

Now if I could just get some decent looking beads...

Pat · #18 2005-06-30, 8:35am

I have that Stella pink that is so shocky. I put it on top of my kiln while its going and it seems to make it warmed and a lot less poppy.