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Safety -- Make sure you are safe!

View Poll Results: Do you have propane tank(s) in your house?
Yes, but only a maximum of 2 one-pound tanks 75 10.58%
Yes, I keep my BBQ tank right next to me in the studio. 208 29.34%
No, it always stays outside. I run the lines through a door/window. 245 34.56%
No, it always stays outside. I have a plumbed line through the wall. 181 25.53%
Voters: 709. You may not vote on this poll

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  #241  
Old 2006-11-21, 11:21am
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How far should the propane be from your working area outside/??
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  #242  
Old 2006-11-21, 11:34am
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Doesn't really matter. For large bulk tanks, say in excess of 100 gallons, I believe that NFPA says they should be at least 15 feet from any structure. Smaller tanks can be anywhere. I'd keep it near a doorway if possible so you can get to it easily.

It's always a good idea to protect the tank in some fashion so that it isn't always exposed to the elements and the prying eyes of neighbors...
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  #243  
Old 2006-12-14, 5:33pm
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Dale asked, why install the propane tank in the house.

I have it next to my desk in the house. It's a bit scary, but when it's outside it's scary also. I read that propane tanks are sensitive for cold and warm. (correct me if i am wrong)
And if you leave the tank outside with warm weather and in the cold that thats not very safe then.

It's difficult for me to install the tank outside. In the winter i need to keep the window open to hang the hose outside and i have to climb outside the window to turn the propane tank open and climb back in. See left on the picture. The Propane tank is on the right. I have an propane alarm it's hanging under my desk.

I would like to build an savety box for inside the house where the tank could be placed in. But what material must be used. When a tank explode it has so much force, its scared to 'work like this. But i can't see another option.

I am sorry for my bad English writing. I do my best.

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  #244  
Old 2006-12-14, 9:13pm
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I give up.... 242 message to get to this point and all or most have something to say how wrong it is to have propane in the studio/residence and people still ask why.....

Dale
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  #245  
Old 2006-12-15, 3:27am
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I did not asked why Dale!

I ask if there is an sort of safetytank for in the house. I know lot's of company's who work inside with propane. In a camperhome the propane tank hanging outside the mobile home. When its explode it's probebly also makes an lot of damage inside. I try to ask if there is anoher option.

Also there is no answere over the hot en cold issue. Propane does not love hot or cold weather. And whe you have your propane outside the house its open to hot and cold. Is that so safe? How do others think of that?
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  #246  
Old 2006-12-15, 5:22am
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There is no safe way to keep propane in your house. Period. End of discussion.

There is NO SUCH THING as a safe box for propane. Propane will explode and level a house and no box could ever contain the blast.

Propane is neutral to hot and cold air temperatures. When it is hot outside the pressure in the tank rises slightly. When it is cold outside the pressure in the tank drops a bit. It is not a safety issue. The issue is protecting the regulator from the weather. I live in Minnesota. My weather is probably as extreme as yours is -- we routinely get 95+ degrees F in the summer and -30 F in the winter. I torch year round. My tank is outside, kept in a plastic storage box to protect the regulator.

There are lots of commercial businesses that use propane indoors as well -- but the difference is the size of the building and the amount of fresh air in the building. A propane tank on a forklift can leak, and most likely the propane will not explode because of the size of the interior space. A propane tank in a room of a house can leak and most likely it WILL explode because of the small size of the interior space. It all has to do with concentration of fumes.

On a mobile home, the tank is OUTSIDE. If there is a leak, it will leak to the atmosphere and there is little chance of an explosion.

Please. For your sake, and that of your family, get the propane tank OUT of your house.
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  #247  
Old 2006-12-15, 3:42pm
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Thank you very much Dale for the information.

I am going to think of a way to take it outside the house. It's gonna be an huge problem because i live in an appartment on the first floor with no Balcony.
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  #248  
Old 2006-12-15, 4:12pm
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Living in an apartment makes it even more imperative that it be outside. Do you realize that you are putting the entire building at risk?

Here in the US, it is fairly generally accepted that people who live in apartment buildings should stick with either natural gas -or- a hot head torch with one pound propane/MAPP gas tanks. Bulk propane tanks and apartment living are not a good combination.
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  #249  
Old 2006-12-16, 6:11pm
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Thank you Mike,

My explanation whas not so good.

I life in a apartment on the first floor but there are not living people above me or underneath me. I live above an old cow stable and there are no animals or people besides me and my partner and my doggie.

What you say about propane is neutral to hot or cold you are very right.
But how about the tank, when not used for a few months, it most get rusty. Or how about the the gas hose. Look at your hose after an month hanging outside an window with an tempature of 35 degree celcius..or lots of cold. I heard some people are hanging the hose outside the window. That's not so safe eather.

I get an inspection of the fire department this week and wait what they are saying.

Everytime you buy an new propane tank make sure it's bought from an good company. Never use a secondhand tank. Make sure the hoses are in mint condition. Check with soap always before you start working if there are no leaks in the hose and check with soap the fittings. Have good ventilation and only work when you are in good condition yourself. Stay allert. I also have an propane alarm hanging just above the floor.

I am not some dummy, and i am not crazy. I work as save as i can. I also called my insurance company and let them now what kind of work i am doing and it whas no problem. I diddent even have to raise the insurance. So i only have to wait for the fire department to check my indoor beadmaking room.

Most beadmakers in Holland have their propane tank in the house, and it's good to know that there have been no accidents. Just work as save as you can. I don't hope i get someone frustrated again. I just wanted to say my thing here. I think it must be possible on a forum like this. If there are discussions about things like this it's an good thing. It makes people allert and think more about their safety. Don't be mad at me for this.

There whas in an newspaper last week that an man had been blownup in his car. His wife and he had just visit an secondhand market and he bought himself a propane tank.
He put in the back of his car and his wife whas getting more stuff as the man whas waiting for her in his car. The propane tank exploded in his car. The guy is dead. But what whas in that tank...whas it propane you don't know...second hand. How old whas the tank. Most accidents happens with old tanks. So make sure to buy good and new ones everytime you buy a propane tank.
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  #250  
Old 2006-12-17, 7:00am
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If the tank is protected in a plastic outdoor container, then you don't have to worry about rust.

The rubber hoses are not designed to be exposed to weather 24/7/365...here in the US, the National Fire code calls for flexible metallic hoses to be used to transition to a hard-line through the wall pipe. Rubber hoses are designed as "temporary" installations and should be taken down at the end of each session.

I would also state that accidents can happen with brand new tanks -- any tank can cause an accident, new or old. Here in the US tanks are required to be tested every 5 years I believe, check for pressure containment as well as valve inspection. Reputible propane refillers/exchangers inspect the tanks every time.
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  #251  
Old 2006-12-17, 11:11am
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Please forgive me if I'm repeating a question. I'm trying to set up an indoor space to work and want to make it as safe as possible. If I am understanding the previous comment I need flexible metallic hose to go from the tank to the hard metal pipe (copper?) through the wall and once inside can connect the hoses? And I think I read somewhere that there should be a on/off valve on both ends of the hard pipe?
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  #252  
Old 2006-12-17, 7:37pm
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You are correct!
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  #253  
Old 2006-12-31, 11:15am
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I am having trouble finding a plastic container in which to use for protection of my porpane tank. Could someone post a picture, state a brand name or company name (or internet site) that I could obtain one from please? Thanks.
Elaine
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  #254  
Old 2006-12-31, 12:05pm
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Rubbermaid makes them, as well as other companies.

If you have a Target nearby, check in the patio section (although at this time of year, it might be tough to find one). They are sometimes called "Patio Boxes" or Outdoor storage boxes.
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  #255  
Old 2007-01-01, 10:40am
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Thanks Mike. I had seen those but since I thought I read that I was supposed to turn it upside down I did not see how that was possible with the lip that they have on three sides. Maybe I was mistaken about the upside down thing. Anyway, I appreciate the response.
-elaine
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  #256  
Old 2007-01-01, 11:12am
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The one I use was designed to store lawn furniture. It will hold 4 20 pound tanks (not that I use that many any more). I cut a notch in the lid to run the flex metal pipe, and drilled a couple of small holes in the bottom to allow any accumulating propane to drain if there were ever a leak.

It does not have to sit upside down. As long as a 20 pound tank can sit inside, that's all that matters.
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  #257  
Old 2007-01-01, 4:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachalot View Post
Please forgive me if I'm repeating a question. I'm trying to set up an indoor space to work and want to make it as safe as possible. If I am understanding the previous comment I need flexible metallic hose to go from the tank to the hard metal pipe (copper?) through the wall and once inside can connect the hoses? And I think I read somewhere that there should be a on/off valve on both ends of the hard pipe?

Please do not use copper for your gas lines in side the house! You should be using steel/black pipe, galvanized or the new flex pipe for interior applications. The latter is expensive- the fittings are ~$11 each, but apparently you save on the pipe fitting labor by using it.

I know that my gas company has, on occasion, run *shudder* 3/8" copper, above ground to my house. That is so bad- it is soft and can be broken/pierced easily. Now at least they are better about trenching it in immediately. As a matter of fact, they are doing it tomorrow!

Yes, you need a valve for every appliance and a main valve where it comes into the house, and also a valve outside the house if you can, in case the valve on the tank itself fails/leaks. This way, no matter if you are in the house, or outside, if you suspect a gas leak, you can shut off the gas.

You need to use the stainless flex to go from your tank outside to the hard plumbing inside the house. This is also the way that gas stoves are connected inside the house, so that you can move the stove for cleaning or repair without damagine the gas lines.
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  #258  
Old 2007-01-01, 4:25pm
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Mike,
Thanks again. I did finally find the one rubbermaid one online. It's definately not the season for these things in the local stores. I was going to drill holes in the container. Will holes in the bottom suffice or do I need to have some in the lower part of the sides as well?
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  #259  
Old 2007-01-02, 5:38am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julz View Post
Please do not use copper for your gas lines in side the house! You should be using steel/black pipe, galvanized or the new flex pipe for interior applications. The latter is expensive- the fittings are ~$11 each, but apparently you save on the pipe fitting labor by using it.

I know that my gas company has, on occasion, run *shudder* 3/8" copper, above ground to my house. That is so bad- it is soft and can be broken/pierced easily. Now at least they are better about trenching it in immediately. As a matter of fact, they are doing it tomorrow!

Yes, you need a valve for every appliance and a main valve where it comes into the house, and also a valve outside the house if you can, in case the valve on the tank itself fails/leaks. This way, no matter if you are in the house, or outside, if you suspect a gas leak, you can shut off the gas.

You need to use the stainless flex to go from your tank outside to the hard plumbing inside the house. This is also the way that gas stoves are connected inside the house, so that you can move the stove for cleaning or repair without damagine the gas lines.
Um...NO. Copper can be and IS used very safely in the house and the studio. Copper is one of the alternatives to hard wall pipe and is used when there are a lot of bends to accomodate that hard wall would require a lot of threading, 90's and 45's. Copper is permitted under code in every code that I've seen.

The key is that you do NOT use compression fitting which are prohibited under the code. Copper has to have flare fittings (metal to metal).
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  #260  
Old 2007-01-02, 5:39am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by missbatteries View Post
Mike,
Thanks again. I did finally find the one rubbermaid one online. It's definately not the season for these things in the local stores. I was going to drill holes in the container. Will holes in the bottom suffice or do I need to have some in the lower part of the sides as well?
Just the bottom should be fine.
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  #261  
Old 2007-01-04, 7:12pm
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Wow. Took me 2 hours to get through this entire thread.

Lots of good info. Thanks Dale & Mike.
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  #262  
Old 2007-01-31, 6:55am
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For those of you who still wonder if it's safe to keep a propane tank inside, read this:

Quote:


GHENT, W.Va. — An explosion leveled a gas station near a ski resort Tuesday morning, killing at least four people and seriously injuring at least nine others, authorities said.

A firefighter and a paramedic were among the injured at the Flat Top Little General Store on Route 19, said Kim O'Brien, spokeswoman for the state Fire Marshal's office, who provided the casualty figures.

Authorities suspect that a propane tank exploded at about 10:45 a.m., just as a fire truck was pulling into the station in response to a report of a leak.

The cause of the explosion has not been determined. O'Brien said she's not sure whether it was a propane tank or a liquid petroleum tank that exploded.

All that's left of the building is a pile of debris, twisted metal framework and a sign showing the price of gasoline starting at $2.19 a gallon.

The explosion was felt at least a mile away at The Ski Shop.

"I thought we got struck by lightning. The whole building shook. The power went off," said Ben Monast, the shop's manager.
That happened at a gas station I have been to many times over the past few years. It's right on the way to one of the ski resorts we go to.
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  #263  
Old 2007-02-03, 12:42pm
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Ok Mike, as a newbie I get it. But while keeping the tanks outside eliminates the gas buildup issue, it doesn't seem to correct the tank blows up goodbye house issue. Since you must have everything set up right and legal, how about some pictures of your setup (inside/outside) as a picture is worth a thousand words.

Dale, thank you for your contributions.

Do us newbies a favor - give us a check list.
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  #264  
Old 2007-02-03, 4:42pm
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A tank outside will not allow a gas build up, there for less explosion hazard because of dilution of LP gas in surrounding air... IF you have a fire and tank gets over heated it will cause pressure relief valve to blow off (somewhere around 260 psi). IF this occurs tank will vent LP gas and will cause a obnoxiously large flame if it ignites but it is a "controlled" release and not a "explosive" release... The "explosive" release is what causes the damage. Also as mentioned before if tank is out side and during a fire it can be identified and kept cool by fire fighters spraying water on it the hazard is reduced compared to tank hidden in clutter of studio... Fire fighters are trained to look for external hazards, so help them out...

Dale
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  #265  
Old 2007-02-05, 10:06am
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And even if the tank is outside and it blows, it is far less likely to destroy the house. The house wall will act as a barrier, and while there may be some structural damage from blast overpressure, the vast majority of the blast will be reflected away from the house.
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  #266  
Old 2007-02-05, 10:06am
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I'll get some pictures taken as soon as it warms up. It was -25 F this morning.
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  #267  
Old 2007-02-08, 8:39am
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Hey Mike and/or Dale:
Before I go shopping, do you know of a container that's large enough/tall enough to hold a 30 lb tank? I have one of the containers you're talking about outside by my pool, holding all of the crap you need to have a pool. I know it isn't tall enough. How steady would it be to turn it on it's side with the lid facing outwards? I'm not too sure it's a good idea for my set-up. I have my tank chained to some lattice on the side of my porch, on the ground in the back of the house (outside of the pool area). I'd want the container to be stable as well. Right now, the tank is sitting on a large piece of floor tile to keep it level, since the surrounding ground slopes gradually down. It's perfect now, but I can't figure out the container.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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  #268  
Old 2007-02-08, 8:44am
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The containers come in many different configurations. I've seen a couple that are designed to hold trash cans, maybe one of those will work for you. You are correct in thinking that tipping a standard unit on it's end would not be good!
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  #269  
Old 2007-02-08, 9:07am
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Trash cans? Really.. hmmm. I didn't know that. I may just need some for my trash cans, too.

I've seen all kinds of different containers, believe me. They're the greatest things invented for my OCD. But I still don't think I've seen anything like this. I'm going to look asap. I hate the way the tank is right now. I know my regulator is trying to freeze up on me and not work as well. I do have a large plastic bucket covering it, but that doesn't help for extreme cold and wind.

Thanks for the quick answer.
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  #270  
Old 2007-02-08, 9:12am
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MikeAurelius MikeAurelius is offline
Safety ALWAYS
 
Join Date: Jun 10, 2005
Location: Sauk Rapids, Minnesota
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Take a look at this one, it has a height of 36".

http://www.rubbermaid.com/rubbermaid...d=HpdCat140014
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Chaotic Glass: Safety for the glassworker, and random thoughts and opinions on the state of the glassworking world
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