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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2009-05-17, 12:42pm
sherryfen sherryfen is offline
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Default Michael Barley's method of Rubino and silver leaf

I recently took a class with Michael Barley which was awesome. He demonstrated his method of using rubino over silver leaf, which is also in Corina's Spotlight on Silver. I have a Mini Carlisle CC and each time I attempt making this bead, the rubino ends up looking like a light tan shade instead of clear. This is the Chrysalis technique. I'm just wondering if anyone has been successful with a Mini Carlisle CC and this particular technique. Michael uses a Nortel Minor. I've tried turning the propane way down too. I'm wondering if it is operator error (me!) or my torch since I've heard it runs "hotter" than the Minor.

Any input would be helpful. Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 2009-05-17, 1:15pm
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which leaf are you using? he swears by arrow springs silver, but i've gotten to do it with others but not as nice, very strange! i'd make a small bead and just practice.
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Old 2009-05-17, 1:22pm
sherryfen sherryfen is offline
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I purchased the silver leaf from Arrow springs as he suggested. I've tried a bunch of times, but have not had any success. With the rubino turning this tannish color, is that an indication of too much propane? Also, when you melt the silver into the bead, is that with a neutral flame and do you melt it all the way into the bead so that you don't see the silver? That's what I've been doing. With more of an oxy flame, the silver doesn't seem to melt into the bead. Thanks-sherry
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  #4  
Old 2009-05-17, 1:34pm
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Since you've taken a class from him, why don't you email him to ask him if he can suggest what you might be doing wrong. As you know, he's super nice, and I'm sure he'd try to help.
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  #5  
Old 2009-05-17, 1:47pm
sherryfen sherryfen is offline
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Thanks, I did email him and I tried his suggestions, but still no success. He was great. That's why I'm wondering if it is my torch. I would love to know if someone has successfully made these beads with the Mini Carlisle CC. I like my torch, but I really want to make these beads-just trying to figure out if I'm doing something wrong or is it the torch??

Thanks, sherry
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  #6  
Old 2009-05-17, 1:55pm
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I thought at some point it was mentioned that the cobalt glass formula changed and it didn't react exactly the same? I'm curious, too, the technique seems to be hit and miss for me. (I was on a HH, now a Minor.)
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  #7  
Old 2009-05-17, 2:22pm
sherryfen sherryfen is offline
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This particular technique calls for rolling the silver on clear and then applying rubino. But I did also try it on cobalt and the rubino was dark and ugly. It's frustrating. I even tried the methods on the wet canvas technique from Alyson which is a few years old and I couldn't get it to work. I keep lowering the propane-I'm not sure if that's the issue or not. Any suggestions are very welcome. Thanks.
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  #8  
Old 2009-05-17, 2:25pm
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Does anyone have a link to a photo using this, I'm curious as to what you are talking about!
Thanks!
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  #9  
Old 2009-05-17, 2:35pm
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I'm sorry, but i don't have a photo, but it was published in Corina's Spotlkight on Silver, on the Michael Barley page. There was also a tutorial on wet canvas from Nov. of 2007 called Ruby Gold and Silver Beads using the transparent colors as the base for the silver and rubino. It's a beautiful reaction when it works. Just looking for someone with a mini Carlisle that can do it successfully (or not) to determine if I'm doing something wrong or is it my torch.

Thanks.
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  #10  
Old 2009-05-17, 5:14pm
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Try striking the rubino?
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  #11  
Old 2009-05-17, 8:17pm
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You want to work in a hot hissy high-oxy flame to get the Rubino to push the silver around. You don't want to reduce the silver or fume the Rubino. And be sure it is leaf, not foil. I don't find a difference between Arrowsprings and the generic leaf myself, but your mileage may vary.
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  #12  
Old 2009-05-18, 5:14am
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Thanks, I will try this flame today. I'm hoping!
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  #13  
Old 2009-05-18, 6:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erose View Post
You want to work in a hot hissy high-oxy flame to get the Rubino to push the silver around. You don't want to reduce the silver or fume the Rubino. And be sure it is leaf, not foil. I don't find a difference between Arrowsprings and the generic leaf myself, but your mileage may vary.
Yes, it has to be leaf.
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  #14  
Old 2009-05-18, 7:43am
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Hi Elizabeth,
Your comment about a hot hissy high-oxy flame caused me to look at my regulator and the pressure was set too low for my oxygen. I turned it up, made a bead and it looks a lot better-can't tell for sure until it comes out of the kiln--but I'm hoping!!

Thanks so much, Sherry
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  #15  
Old 2009-05-18, 8:32am
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Leaf sounds like it will be the difference for me - thanks for sharing!
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Old 2009-05-18, 5:58pm
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I am late to this thread but I have done this several times on a mini cc using tanked oxygen!
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  #17  
Old 2009-05-18, 6:23pm
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Yep, you're probably working too hot, was my 1st thought too. If you use a more oxy flame you won't burn the rubino either and melt in slowly!
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  #18  
Old 2009-05-18, 6:37pm
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Thank you both. That's the conclusion that I've come to also. Beads are in the kiln-I worked it with more oxy-hoping that I finally got it right.
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  #19  
Old 2009-05-18, 7:53pm
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Wait, the more oxygen, the hotter the flame. I know that is counter-intuitive, you'd think the more fuel (propane) the hotter, but the opposite is true.
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  #20  
Old 2009-05-20, 5:13am
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My beads turned out--the key is more oxy, less propane. I had to adjust my regulator-it was a little off in the settings. Thanks for the input.
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  #21  
Old 2009-05-21, 7:37pm
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Well - where are the pics then ? Show em :+)
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Old 2009-05-22, 8:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erose View Post
Wait, the more oxygen, the hotter the flame. I know that is counter-intuitive, you'd think the more fuel (propane) the hotter, but the opposite is true.

Actually, yes and no. Once you get past a neutral flame, more oxygen cools it down. Your neutral flame is your hottest; the addition of oxygen increases the temperature only to that point.


http://www.northstarglass.com/newsletters/6.pdf
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  #23  
Old 2009-05-22, 6:57pm
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Thanks for the link, Karin; that was interesting information.

Mimi
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  #24  
Old 2009-06-08, 3:20am
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just took a class with michael barley. he does work in an oxygenated flame and he finds that cobalt is not very reactive. he makes a clear base bead and covers with white for some of his beads then rolls in silver leaf. he told us just to play with the different colors and see what they do with the silver leaf applied. several of my first beads were dark because i had too much propane, he likes to hear the oxygen hissing. when applying black then silver leaf he will then reduce the black as it goes to a lovely blue kind of like kronos.
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