Newest Batch of Metallic Black???

midniteburner · #1 2010-04-17, 1:24pm

I just got my order from Franz and pulled out the metallic black (Moretti) and it does nothing...so I pulled out the regular black thinking they just got missmarked...nope...

What is going on?

Sara

theglasszone · #2 2010-04-17, 1:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by midniteburner

I just got my order from Franz and pulled out the metallic black (Moretti) and it does nothing...so I pulled out the regular black thinking they just got missmarked...nope...

What is going on?

Sara

Don't know darlin' - but I think I have about a 1/4 lb. of the original stuff if you're interested. I've not even had time to give it a go!

KarenBeth · #3 2010-04-17, 2:17pm

Thats interesting... my intense black turned metallic, not the same as metallic black but way prettier. oh wait, maybe i grabbed the wrong one... maybe hades? *scratches head* hmmm... i really thought it was intense, damn i need a label machine but can't figure out whats what to label em anyways. grrr..

Trey Cornette · #4 2010-04-18, 4:48am

I got a pound of what was supposed to be Intense Black but reduces very metallic. I have not played with metallic black before but I think this is what I have rather than the Intense. Anyone want it? I would be happy to trade it for something I use.

On another note I just scored 2 pounds of some wonderful 5 year old intense black!!

neagle · #5 2010-04-18, 6:42am

I've made a bunch of beads from metallic black and it's really odd and bubbly while you are working it. It sparks, too. I know immediately if it's metallic black once it hits the flame-no other black I have--hades, intense, etc.--does this. You might have gotten the wrong black?

Flonche · #6 2010-04-18, 6:56am

My assumption is that the new Effetre Metallic Black is now machine made and not the same animal. I have some (from about 5 or 6 months ago) and it doesn't do anything like the original from august 08' (got it at the Gathering together with Sedona 257).
A few vendors still have the old handmade stuff; I ordered mine recently from Joe Avenue Beads.

neagle · #7 2010-04-18, 7:08am

Wow, that would suck. I really like the effects I get with the original glass.

Flonche · #8 2010-04-18, 8:05am

Yes, Nina, it does suck. All those premium handmade colors that we love are all going to be very different now, it's going to be difficult to get used to it.

neagle · #9 2010-04-18, 8:18am

I'd be pissed off if I currently paid for this expensive glass and didn't get the original effects.

Trey Cornette · #10 2010-04-18, 8:26am

I think it is the same old problem with inconsistencies from batch to batch that Moretti has always had rather than being machine made that is to blame.
I think that this has become even more a problem now that we will buy anything they make including their mistakes with no questions asked. Sure occasionally we get a really cool color that will never be reproduced but more often than not it is just a mediocre color with a souped up name.
Moretti no longer has to hold itself to a standard as their trash sells just as well as their production.
I for one have noticed a marked drop in quality over the past 5 years or so.

midniteburner · #11 2010-04-18, 8:54am

Trey, you are so right!!!

There was no difference in the original black and what was supposed to be metallic.

I really think that when people get fed up enough with the way things are done and STOP paying for crappy glass things will change. We are the customers and still we have no say as to what we get!

I have felt as if they don't care about the customer or what we want. And we are willing to put up with a lot off them...such as shocky rods.

Sorry, I just don't think asking for consistency in colors is too much. Or when people say, I want streaky pink as a regular color.

Sara

Flonche · #12 2010-04-18, 9:00am

That's a good point too, Trey. I have only been lampworking for 3 years, so I can't really tell about a long term change in quality, but I have read a lot here about glass colors and I do like to try most of their mistakes too, because I love color. But many times I looked at new colors or odd lots and thought, wtf??

However, the handmade to machine made issue is big in my book as well, because the differences are so radical in some cases that it's harder to get used to it. I never knew the old Sage or Tongue Pink or even Pale Emerald, for example, so I'm fine with the new ones, but I was really disappointed when I tried the new Powder Pink and plain frustrated with the new DSP.

I think the part that gets on my nerves is that I'd like the vendors to be more open about it and state clearly what's happening, and then list their product for what they really are.
After all, a lot of our craft is about colors and reactions and glass properties, so if the glass colors and properties are going to change radically, I think we should know more about it and most of all, I wish all vendors would now update their stocks as to what is what.
Several times this year I paid the premium prices for "handmade color" glass that was machine made and deprived of its properties in the process, with no information from the sellers. At first I thought "oh well, next batch will be better" and then I read about the switch and connected all those "what's going on with my DSP/Metallic Black/EDP/etc" threads together.

Anyway, some people will be fine with it, some won't even notice the difference (maybe), some will love it because "it's the beauty of the glass", some will hate it and yell and complain, some will make mighty money on old stocks they hoarded, and maybe in the end they will be able to adjust the recipes so as to reproduce the same glass in different conditions of production. That's life and it keeps us distracted

elle · #13 2010-04-18, 9:46am

I'm wondering why machine pulled vs hand pulled makes such a difference in the color? Is it the size of the batch? Does anyone know? And does anyone know why they quit hand pulling these colors?

I've noticed a slow decline in quality of Effetre standard production colors over the last several years, too. Many of the rods I've bought since 2008 have been full of teeny tiny bubbles. I guess I can deal with opaque rods with bubbles, but not my transparents. It's not like it's a line of bubbles on one side of the rod that you can peel off. The entire rod is full of them, all the way to the core, making it impossible to pick them out.

I was also disappointed in that ridiculously GREEN batch of Effetre Teal (026). Luckily, Vetrofond's version is a truer teal. Not an exact match, but close enough that I can't see any difference in my finished beads. Over all, I've found Vetro transparents to be a bit more vibrant and of better quality than their Effetre counterparts. Unfortunately, they don't have nearly the selection Effetre has when it comes to transparent color.

Sarah

Flonche · #14 2010-04-18, 10:13am

I found the thread I was looking for about the topic, but there are a lot more than one.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=156848
The one about Teal 026 was in the Garage area and I'm not sure it still exists.

Hi Sarah! I remember reading somewhere (actually might have been on your blog comments! or here maybe) that it was like baking or cooking; if you took a recipe written for 6 servings and just multiply everything by 4 for your 24 guests, it won't taste the same because the chemistry of the ingredients won't operate the same way, especially if heat is involved.
In glass, they might have started to make much larger quantities of the premium colors to be pulled by machine but didn't adjust the recipes for that. So it wouldn't have to do with pulling the glass itself per se but more with what they pull it from, in a way

Again, I am just repeating what I read somewhere. But if that's true, then it means that if they care to, they can work on the recipes until they adjust everything and those colors are closest to what they were originally. "If they care" being the operative word here.

elle · #15 2010-04-18, 5:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flonche

I found the thread I was looking for about the topic, but there are a lot more than one.
http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=156848
The one about Teal 026 was in the Garage area and I'm not sure it still exists.

Hi Sarah! I remember reading somewhere (actually might have been on your blog comments! or here maybe) that it was like baking or cooking; if you took a recipe written for 6 servings and just multiply everything by 4 for your 24 guests, it won't taste the same because the chemistry of the ingredients won't operate the same way, especially if heat is involved.
In glass, they might have started to make much larger quantities of the premium colors to be pulled by machine but didn't adjust the recipes for that. So it wouldn't have to do with pulling the glass itself per se but more with what they pull it from, in a way

Again, I am just repeating what I read somewhere. But if that's true, then it means that if they care to, they can work on the recipes until they adjust everything and those colors are closest to what they were originally. "If they care" being the operative word here.

I didn't realize the handpulled stuff was a small batch thing. I mean, I did, but somehow never made that connection. I'm slow that way. But yeah, you're probably right about the recipe comparison. I know that halfing my no-bake cookie recipe yields chalky, dry cookies. So I always make the full batch. But I had to stop making the no-bake cookies altogether so I could still wear pants.

Flonche · #16 2010-04-18, 5:50pm

No-bake cookies? As in raw cookies?

elle · #17 2010-04-18, 6:10pm

Wha? You've never heard of no-bake cookies??? Google it. You've probably had them and didn't know that's what they were called. BUT - it's like fudge in that you should just forget it when it's raining or even a little humid. Go buy a candy bar or something.

Sorry to sidetrack. As you were.

Flonche · #18 2010-04-18, 6:31pm

*back from Google*
Nah. I'll stick with my raw eggs, thank you very much.

People with interest in Metallic Black, please proceed. I'm going back to my Toblerone bar.

dragonfly designs 56 · #19 2010-04-18, 8:19pm

yep, this is the metallic black i have too. isnt it efferte that sells it, not moretti?? I dont think its the same black the turned a little metallic. This is a whole different beast. it turns silver/grey without doing anything to it, immediately and it sparks and boils. this is exactly the colors that I get out of mine immediately

http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160013

Quote:

Originally Posted by neagle

I've made a bunch of beads from metallic black and it's really odd and bubbly while you are working it. It sparks, too. I know immediately if it's metallic black once it hits the flame-no other black I have--hades, intense, etc.--does this. You might have gotten the wrong black?

squid · #20 2010-04-18, 8:33pm

effetre = moretti
new name -old name

TinaJ · #21 2010-04-19, 7:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by midniteburner

I just got my order from Franz and pulled out the metallic black (Moretti) and it does nothing...so I pulled out the regular black thinking they just got missmarked...nope...

What is going on?

Sara

I just bought some from Frantz, too, and it does nothing. I couldn't get to even shine a little bit. I was expecting something like hematite but that's not what I get. I, too, thought that maybe they had sent regular black but I guess I just got some of the newer non-reactive stuff.
Tina

dragonfly designs 56 · #22 2010-04-19, 7:39am

Sorry, been outta glass for five years, just for some reason didnt know if thats why it was different batches. I ordered mine from wale apparatus, came last week, and its fabulous. I like wale because I am close to them and get my stuff in two days. I do order alot of stuff from frantz too. not promoting anyone, just saying i happened to get a pound last week from wale, and it is the kind that turns silver, peacock color

So glad I didnt get the messed up kind because I would have just thought I couldnt work it and never got it again, and right now its my favorite glass, it does its thing on its own. oh, and btw, I love no bake cookies! I made them once, they never did get hard, but i ate them anyway, he he

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

effetre = morenew name -old name

paulinabeads · #23 2010-04-24, 3:43pm

I agree with the original poster. I ordered metallic from Frantz back in Feb or so and got wonderful silvery peacock-y metallic (when I work it right). I got enthused and thought I'd order more. Frantz had a limit of 1 pound so I thought (wrongly) Oh, it must still be this good stuff and know everyone knows. So I order my one pound (and pay shipping and duty to canada) and then I try it today. NOTHING! plain old shiny boring black. no matter what I do. It does have a tiny bit of that sparkle that metallic has when it heats, but then nothing.

I get that's what you get when you rely on glass chemistry to make a fabulous bead. I guess I had better rely on my fabulous design and technical skills. haha. I wish!