Getting the beads of the mandrel easily

Pia Kaven · #1 2010-09-06, 2:52pm

Hey, just thought that I would chip in a little tip. I thought that everyone took their beads off the mandrel this way, but I noticed that some people were struggling with this process, and in fact, did nothing alike. So here is the tip on how I do it, and it has never failed me. *knocks on wood*

Soak you beads and mandrels in water for at least 15 minutes before you start removing them. Some add vinegar, I soak them in pure tab H20.

This is what I use, bench wise grip... or what ever it would be called, to hold your mandrel. Place the bead as close to the grip as possible, so you wont bend the mandrel while twisting and pulling.

Use rubber anything to get a firm grip of the bead and twist back and fort to loosen it, keep twisting while pulling at the same time (this thing is made to open jars, but kitchen gloves should work as well). If your bead is long or not very close to the tip, move mandrel, so the bead is again close to the grip. Saves you $$$ when you dont have to buy new mandrels to replace the bent ones.

Use your preferred method to clean the holes. I use Dremel tool and BeaDreamer diamond bits to clean them under water.

I hope some of the new lampworkers will find this useful. Other methods might be as good or better, but this has always been my way of doing it, and I find it simple and effective.

Happy torching!

Pia

Kevan · #2 2010-09-06, 3:11pm

I use vice grips to hold the mandrel in one hand and wrap a paper towel around the bead.

Pia Kaven · #3 2010-09-06, 3:22pm

Probably just as good method. I have bad shoulder, so I avoid having to pull with my left arm...
Oh and good idea before trying to remove the beads, is to remove all the bead release that you possibly can off the mandrels. Dont need anything extra to jam between the mandrel and bead.

angie · #4 2010-09-06, 4:23pm

mmm interesting sound like you are struggling if you have to do that, mine comes of with one twist ;0

Pia Kaven · #5 2010-09-06, 4:50pm

Mine barely ever does... depends what mandrels or what bead release you use. And also how long beads you make. I dont generally need the rubber thingie, but if the bead is stuck tighter, Id rather use it than break my skin on trying to twist. And this is just to tell what to do in case you struggle... if you have it all good already you can just skip this. And the wise is for not really so that you have something to pull against, it is so that you wont bend the madrels.
And as said, there probably are better methods, this is what you might try if nothing you have tried has worked.
I noticed that I might have diluted my bead release little too much, and after I started to use the newly dipped mandrels, the beads were tighter on mandrels than usually.
What bead release do you use Angie?

artiegirl · #6 2010-09-06, 5:06pm

Just alittle in put that has helped me a few times I read in a book that works great
if your having a problem put it in the freezer it works every time and with no struggle
I noticed the only time I have a problem with taking the bead off is when i cook the hell out of my beads and I mean cook. For the most part like Angie one twist and its off, good luck

Pia Kaven · #7 2010-09-06, 5:48pm

I noticed that I have most problems with small beads and small beads with lots of details... distorts the mandrel... hate it!

Pia Kaven · #8 2010-09-06, 5:49pm

Good tip, thats what I do if two drinking glasses get stuck, put them in freezer, and if they are still stuck, then put the outer one in hot water... should do the trick too!

alb6094 · #9 2010-09-06, 9:28pm

Pia, for bead release I use K.R.A.G. mudd from Kittrell-Riffkind in Dallas (Dallas North Tollway and Beltline Road in a sort of upscale shopping area-gallery in front, studio in back is where they sell the bead release) and mix it 50/50 with Dip N Go sludge I buy from Reenie that Traci told me about.

The two combined make a great release that lasts a long time on dipped mandrels but will hold up to working in the flame AND I let mine soak for 12 hours or so in water and they usually slide right off. I grip the mandrel with needlenose pliers and just pull the beads right off.

The KRAG mudd is to touchy on it's own, it flakes and won't hold up if you dip your mandrels and don't use them right away. It's huge plus factor is it cleans out of the bead super easy and helps in getting them off. The Dip n Go is great for adding strength.

I thought since you're in Dallas you might want to run by KR and give the KRAG mudd a try. HTH!

Pia Kaven · #10 2010-09-06, 9:34pm

I could do that... but where were you able to get that Dip n' Go again? I never thought taht my bead release was bad, but if others just pull their beads off, then it must be.

alb6094 · #11 2010-09-06, 9:47pm

Reenie (Flame Kissed Glass) sells it. Here's the link: http://www.flamekissedglass.com/

Traci told me about Dip n Go because I was mixing the KRAG 50/50 with Bucket O Mudd but that is, sadly, out of production now.

I have to say though that Traci was right, the Dip n Go with the KRAG really works well.

The only beads I have a tough time getting off Pia are when I've heated the sucker to molten several times. I rarely do that anymore except with raku, I find I get better colors out of it if I cook the heck out of it.

angie · #12 2010-09-07, 2:04am

i always use foster fire

i wont use anything else!

Abacus Beads · #13 2010-09-07, 5:31am

After a good soak in tap water I use a vice grip pliers to hold the mandrel and pull off the bead with my hand. If any of my beads get really stuck and wont just pull of I turn the mandrel so the bead part of the mandrel is face down and tap the end with the vice grip pliers. that seems to crack the bead release and the bead will slide off. then I put the freed bead in vinegar and let it soak a few min then clean the bead release out with my dremel tool.
Liz R

Pia Kaven · #14 2010-09-07, 6:21am

I think the bead release stuff needs some experimenting...

I didnt realize that there were such big differences. I was just happy that mine never flaked and was easy enough to use, but lately noticed that it has gotten too tight stuck on beads... maybe double dipping would helped, but Id rather have no struggle at all! Im so glad that this thread ended up actually helping me!

BellaBean · #15 2010-09-07, 6:36am

I use Fusion. Love the stuff! I rarely have trouble getting beads off the mandrel. To clean them, I just spin the bead on the mandrel while under water. It comes right out.

Pia Kaven · #16 2010-09-07, 6:41am

I use Fusion too, and I think I just diluted it too much, and only single dipped. I always just single dip, but since it was so diluted it might have been too little bead release. And I actually wasnt even able to clean some of them with the right size BeaDreamer, so I think I had too little stuff on. Earlier it never was a problem.

clan tabby · #17 2010-09-07, 6:58am

My current favorite bead release is Fusion mixed with Foster Fire. It's strong, but the beads come off the mandrels SO easy! Pia, there are tons of threads on bead release - you might want to check them out one day when you have extra time (yeah, right, what's extra time?) They're fascinating reading for those of us who are intrigued by such things! For some reason I love reading the bead release threads. Perhaps because I haven't found just exactly the absolutely foolproof perfect bead release yet - along with most everybody else.

Pia Kaven · #18 2010-09-07, 7:05am

I try to read them when ever I see them... or have time, but never really paid too much attention, since I was fine with mine. Yesterday was the first time I had any problems. But some of the problems I think were because I use 1/16 mandrels, and I usually dont... I just think they are too bendy. But I made really small beads, so didnt want them to have huge holes... and I think that I heated the beads so much that it bended the mandrel, and was pain in a butt to get off... but ironically that didnt happen until I posted my tips. Yeah... I should have been actually knocking on wood, and not just say so. Usually I can get the bigger mandrels easily, but the smaller ones are little tougher.
But I will be defenitely checking into this bead release stuff more I think I will buy some KRAG and Dip N Go, and also Foster Fire, and see myself wich one I like.

fawnheights · #19 2010-09-19, 8:52pm

I use Fusion, rarely have a problem, but when I do I run them under cold water.

PerfectDeb · #20 2010-09-19, 9:11pm

i'm suddenly having major problems getting long beads off - i'm losing 2 in 5 i reckon. i've never had this issue before.

i HAVE changed bead release but it was working fine for a while and the small beads are coming off fine, its just the long ones.

i've tried using a rivet gun but that not working either - they just shatter

Lisi · #21 2010-09-19, 9:38pm

Thanks to the OP, I have to say that vise is a great idea! It's a wide gripping surface on the mandrel so less chance of bending them.

Pia Kaven · #22 2010-09-20, 5:11am

This is just the way I was tought when I first started... I still do it the same way, most of the times, especially with the larger mandrels, they come off really easily, but sometimes the smaller ones get tighter. And I have to admit, that the longer ones have always been more difficult for me. But so far I only shattered two beads, cause I over heated the bead and bent the mandrel inside...

Lisi · #23 2010-09-20, 9:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectDeb

i'm suddenly having major problems getting long beads off - i'm losing 2 in 5 i reckon. i've never had this issue before.

i HAVE changed bead release but it was working fine for a while and the small beads are coming off fine, its just the long ones.

i've tried using a rivet gun but that not working either - they just shatter

Deb, are your mandrels old? Mine are and I'm starting to have trouble getting beads off. The other day I lost 4 beads out of the 38 I made. That's not good. The mandrels with time will wear thin on the spot where you heat and wind glass on. Deterioration and rusting wears the area away. Then what happens is that the mandrel is a wider diameter at the tip and then the bead hole is smaller because it was wound on where it is worn down. The bead slides a little back and forth but won't come off in either direction. It took me the first three years of beadmaking to figure this out, lol!

I'm recycling mandrels by snipping off 1/2" from each end and regrinding the burrs.

squid · #24 2010-09-20, 9:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PerfectDeb

i'm suddenly having major problems getting long beads off - i'm losing 2 in 5 i reckon. i've never had this issue before.

i HAVE changed bead release but it was working fine for a while and the small beads are coming off fine, its just the long ones.

i've tried using a rivet gun but that not working either - they just shatter

Are you putting a rubber o-ring between the bead and the face of the rivet gun?

JoeDeM · #25 2010-09-20, 10:00am

Have you seen Jim Moore's bead releaser, there's a video demo. It seems expensive, but if it save only a few beads it has paid for itself.

PerfectDeb · #26 2010-09-21, 5:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lisi

Deb, are your mandrels old? Mine are and I'm starting to have trouble getting beads off. The other day I lost 4 beads out of the 38 I made. That's not good. The mandrels with time will wear thin on the spot where you heat and wind glass on. Deterioration and rusting wears the area away. Then what happens is that the mandrel is a wider diameter at the tip and then the bead hole is smaller because it was wound on where it is worn down. The bead slides a little back and forth but won't come off in either direction. It took me the first three years of beadmaking to figure this out, lol!

I'm recycling mandrels by snipping off 1/2" from each end and regrinding the burrs.

nope, brand new, and i've prepared them like i always do, heat till cherry red, dunk in water. also, some of the stuck beads are on older mandrels too, and i always roll the mandrels across the table to check for any bent ones before i dip

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

Are you putting a rubber o-ring between the bead and the face of the rivet gun?

no - good point

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeDeM

Have you seen Jim Moore's bead releaser, there's a video demo. It seems expensive, but if it save only a few beads it has paid for itself.

i'll go check it out, i'll try anything at this point

gmkcpa · #27 2010-09-21, 7:19am

When a mandrel bends - I BEND IT BACK!

Lisi · #28 2010-09-21, 7:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by squid

Are you putting a rubber o-ring between the bead and the face of the rivet gun?

This is necessary to do each and every time. Although I've used the rivet gun to try and get stuck beads off, and if there was a problem with worn down areas on the mandrel like I mentioned before, they will shatter. Using the rivet gun is the way you will know for sure if they were never meant to come off that mandrel in one piece.

squid · #29 2010-09-21, 2:27pm

I've never cracked a small round bead without a little o-ring, but the longer beads will sure enough crack without it.

Eileen · #30 2011-11-14, 11:41am

Today I got my beads from the kiln & took them inside to soak them. I got to thinking about it though, because the dry release that was on the mandrels beside the beads was fairly easy to get off, so I just grabbed the mandrel with a pair of heavy duty lineman pliers, and tried twisting the bead. It twisted easily and came right off. Did the next one, same thing! So I did them all that way, then put them in water just a minute & cleaned them. So now I'm wondering if the water swells the release and makes them harder to get off when I don't soak them a long time. I've been soaking several hours to get them off!