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| Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips |
2014-04-24, 9:53am
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,192
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Electroforming: Something has changed in my system.
I've electroformed for years, and suddenly...it's not working.  
My copper is brittle, like there's too much voltage.
I had it set last night, amps at .28. To make that happen the volts were around .2 I don't remember having volts be at anything other than 0, in the past, but now I have to make the volts DO something to get amps. Is that right? I really don't recall ever having to care what the volts were doing. But if the volts aren't twiddled up to .1 or .2, no amps. 0.0.
My anodes, copper plates, are being eaten alive. They get broken down and fall off within 36-48 hours of use. It's clearly being put on too strong, or too fast, but .28 is not too fast for electroforming, I did it at .3 for years.
Any ideas? New paint? New blue stuff? I'm freaking out. I have cleaned everything, all the wires, hanging wires...
the rate the copper is moving is alarming, it shouldn't eat through a fairly new anode in a few uses!
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2014-04-26, 10:33am
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
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In case anyone is interested, my theory now is it's the copper I was using. I got sheet copper from a hardware store, but that's not necc. COPPER, like COPPER ANODE copper. When the new stuff arrives, I will try it again and update. So, maybe, what I learned is, copper isn't always copper, even if it's copper, when it comes to electroforming.
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2014-04-26, 10:41am
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Wonder-wench
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Join Date: Aug 09, 2010
Location: land of milk & honey
Posts: 1,104
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sometimes the power supplies go bad too. If the new electrodes don't work see if you can independently verify the power supply outputs.
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Elizabeth
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2014-04-26, 11:08am
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 27, 2008
Location: Albion NY
Posts: 517
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Do you have a multi meter to check voltage/amp?
Do you have a capacitor going bad on the power supply or possibly a bad wire that's shorting out?
9 time of of 10 is a bad capacitor or a bad connection if your bath is not contaminated.
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2014-04-26, 2:00pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,192
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I do not have a multi meter, but maybe a neighbor does. I will check. What am I looking when I use one? What signals "bad," if I can still make the numbers go up and down by twiddling knobs during an electroform session?
Thanks! =)
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2014-04-26, 2:24pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Update, a neighbor did have one! the display on the rectifier matched what the multi meter was saying, so ... that means it's working properly, yes?
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2014-04-26, 3:13pm
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Terry Henry
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Join Date: Mar 07, 2007
Posts: 8
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Did you change paint type? I recently switched to Rio Grandes Midas conductive paint and got horrible results. I went back to Safer Solutions and it works like a dream! Did your copper wire holding the project plate?
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2014-04-26, 3:25pm
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 27, 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 87
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I usually run with my volts up around .1ish while using junk copper, ie salvage wire, sheet from hardware store, it has other metals that will get in the way. With that stuff I also had to refresh my electrolytic solution more often as the sacrificial copper wasn't producing as well as pure would and the solution was being stripped of the copper sulfate.
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2014-04-26, 4:53pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,192
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sounds like what may be happening to me, Binks. Maybe that is why I have to start making the volts appear, using the volt knob. I swear I didn't do that in the past. The wire hanging down, Terry, does plate. The item with paint plates WEIRD. And, like I said, it just eats away at the copper hanging down like no one's business. I ordered proper anodes from Rio, hopefully, that will do the trick. Not soon enough for my show, but... it's been a learning experience. Safer Solutions is the paint I use.
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2014-04-26, 10:40pm
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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Copper costs a bit more these days what with the increase in fuel to get here. Maybe your source of copper is a mix of metals to reduce the costs. I know there are different kinds of alloys used in plumbing pipes and copper pennies are mostly zinc on the inside. I don't know how the alloys will effect what you have been doing.
The friends meter shows that the numbers on your system are still true so I tend to doubt that anything is wrong inside your power supply. But I have had variable resistors get wonky after lots of use. I had a reading light just freeze up and refuse to turn at all but that one had the off switch at one end so it was always being turned one way and then the other until it physically wore out. I don't think that is the case here.
Try cleaning the parts that go into the power supply as long as you are cleaning things. People think that aluminum and chrome don't rust and while it is true that they don't go red rust colored, they do oxidize . It just happens to be so transparent oxidation.
Make sure the inside of the power supply doesn't have dust or ants. Seems there are these "crazy ants" down south that love electronics and will short out parts inside TVs and computers and house circuit breaker boxes. People forget that dust is mostly carbon and resistors used in electronics circuits are made from carbon.
I think it is the copper material. There are a set of equations that determine the relationship between current, resistance to the current and the voltage needed to pull that current through that resistance. I higher voltage means more resistance in the copper as long as that is the only thing that has changed. It could be the blue juice or the item being plated but I would start with known good copper first. Good luck.
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2014-04-26, 11:29pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,192
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Copper showed up today, so i will try it tomorrow. Thin strips, they give you from Rio. Weird. I got my last bunch from Janelle, so.... yeah, a long time ago. =)
I'll let you all know what happens. I know you are riveted. 
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2014-04-27, 8:13pm
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Glass-aholic
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2007
Location: CT, tolland CT
Posts: 4,332
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I had the voltage/amps do that to me. It ended up being that thery were touching somewhere or there was residue that made the current jump or something to that effect. Hope you get answers!
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hand dyed silk ribbons in many colors!
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2014-04-29, 1:09pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,192
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New copper anodes arrived, put a little brightener in, and was patient. Shiny as a copper penny! So, in my case, it must have been the anodes. I bought new blue juice, so, well, I just have some in storage now for later! Thanks, everyone!
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2014-04-29, 1:12pm
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Phill
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Join Date: Mar 21, 2009
Location: Winnebago, MN
Posts: 2,489
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Thanks for letting us know what the fix was. If/When I ever get around to setting one of these systems up it's nice to know that I know of at least one fix for wonky results.
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2014-04-29, 1:26pm
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Ass-kicking Cephalopod
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Join Date: Jun 19, 2006
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Glad you figured it out.
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2014-04-29, 8:09pm
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Resident Luny
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Join Date: Jun 07, 2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 2,192
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I bought copper plates from the hardware store, Ace Hardware. They are often in a little display called KB or KD or some such. Good copper, I am sure but not anode copper. =) Now I know.
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