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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2008-03-25, 7:58pm
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CelesteK CelesteK is offline
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Cool Passing the Flame

I have a question about making some of the beads in Passing the Flame. I thought the Kaleidescope beads were so nifty looking. So I tried to make them over the weekend. Well...what came out of the kiln bore absolutely no resemblence to the beads in the book. My question is this--do most of Corina's beads need to be made on a different torch than a hot head? My beads were pretty and looked very springy and floralish. But I'm thinking that to get the glass hot enough to do its thing the whole bead ends up too hot on the hot head because to melt the dots nicely my whole bead ends up almost molten. She says to keep the interior of the bead on the cool side so it doesn't distort and I have a hard time keeping the core cool and the skin hot. More practice?

Celeste
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  #2  
Old 2008-03-25, 8:25pm
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I think it's more Practice and Patience Grasshopper!
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  #3  
Old 2008-03-25, 8:30pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Kate View Post
I think it's more Practice and Patience Grasshopper!
What she said.
Practice
Practice
Practice

My first tries looked nothing like the pics too.

So did my second ....
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  #4  
Old 2008-03-25, 8:33pm
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Oh wow. Talk about serendipity.
This post just appeared out of the blue.
Includes video linkage to a show and tell about
how to make this bead:

http://www.lampworketc.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=86567

edited to add: okay - I just checked the video out, and it's not EXACTLY
the way I make them. She does this weird squiggle thing with the clear at
the end that I've never seen done on triangle beads. But WTH, it works for
her, maybe it will be a good method for you too!
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Last edited by Karen Hardy; 2008-03-25 at 8:42pm.
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  #5  
Old 2008-03-25, 9:27pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelesteK View Post
I thought the Kaleidescope beads were so nifty looking.
I haven't tried that one, it looks like fun. I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CelesteK View Post
My question is this--do most of Corina's beads need to be made on a different torch than a hot head?
Ahhh.....The Challenge! Every bead technique she has in the book that I've tried has worked for me, and I work on a hothead exclusively. I'll give this one a try and let you know how it goes.

-Kay
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  #6  
Old 2008-03-26, 7:56am
ginol ginol is offline
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Smile Making beads with a Hot Head!

I started flame-working and bead making about four months ago using a Hot Head. I had no luck making but the simplest of beads.
For a beginner, making and encasing florals with a Hot Head is equivalent to plucking your eyebrows with a pair of plyers. Sure it can be done, but its not easy! A seasoned glass worker can do anything with almost anything, but a beginner has a tough time doing something even with the best tools.
If you can afford the expense and you have a place to set-up gas tanks, move to a propane/oxygen torch. I use a minor torch.
It makes working with glass a lot easier and lot more fun!
Good luck!
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  #7  
Old 2008-03-26, 4:33pm
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Yes, I will practice some more. I only have EPD and turquoise from my sample pack and just haven't felt comfortable ordering more of such an expensive and persnickety glass. So I was somewhat discomfited when my Kaleidescope beads looked like flowers--because everything gravity whirled...I could almost see the lines that were supposed to occur in maybe one place.

I want to get a new torch, but I'm still having major financial "issues", so I'd really like to become skilled enough that I can work on my hot head happily. I've almost gotten the hang of the rainbow beads--except for a tendency to put down too much transparent color and then burning it trying to get it melted nicely.

Celeste
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  #8  
Old 2008-03-26, 8:49pm
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I know that there are several bead makers here who do some incredible beads on a Hot Head. But I feel that many of the beads that are shown in Corinna book are most likely done on a minor or something similar.
red
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  #9  
Old 2008-03-26, 9:06pm
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When I had a Hot Head I never came close to the Passing the Flame examples
Keep practicing and up-grade..... your torch when you can afford it.
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  #10  
Old 2008-03-27, 12:24pm
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I don't want this to turn into a debate here, but I can't let it go unchallenged because there are newcomers to follow who just might believe what has been said. (Can't tell the woodshed is closed for now, can you?)

Every person is an individual and so there is no right way to do things, just what works for them.

> A seasoned glass worker can do anything with almost anything but a beginner has a tough time doing something even with the best tools.<

I'm going to take that as a compliment, but how do you think we got seasoned? I certainly didn't learn to do what I do on a minor and then switch to a hothead once I got some skills.

Want to see my very first beads? (That's a rhetorical question, no need to answer.)
http://www.listen-up.org/kitty/beads/beads.jpg
They weren't my first beads after X amount of hours or something like that, they were my first beads. My son took a class and I went along so he wouldn't burn the place down. I was actually working on making some luceted lace during the class (the white and gold cord in this pix)
http://www.listen-up.org/kitty/lucets/lucets.jpg
I got him the basic setup, he got bored, so I decided to play around with it so as not to have wasted my money. I didn't have a book or anything. this was in 2001. Oh gosh, this was way back when the Frantz website was nothing but a blue screen with white text. I found an online tutorial on twisties, and that was about it. I did everything from what I remembered hearing. I sat down with a single purpose/thought: How can I make the glass melt and end up looking something like the bead pix I had in front of me. I was interested in the process, not the end result.

When faced with the challenge, "Those beads are all well and nice, but can you make 2 beads that are the same?", this was the result (all beads were made the next day).
http://www.listen-up.org/kitty/beads/paternoster.jpg

But, back to the topic at hand, yes, the technique can be done on a hothead - I did it yesterday (still need to clean the bead). Yes, mine had a bit of a gravity swirl, but I did it intentionally. If you're new and you're making a bead and it starts to swirl on you and you don't want that, start turning the mandrel in the opposite direction. What just swirled will unswirl.

The 2 colors you mentioned happen to be the 2 colors I used. Since you used Turquoise, you will need to clean the bead. An overnight soak in Coke should do the trick (there's a bunch of other things you can do, like toilet bowl cleaner, but you can do search here on that topic).



Gotta run take my son to the dentist.
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  #11  
Old 2008-03-27, 1:34pm
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The kaleidescope beads look easy but they take a lot of practice. Precise dot placement, heat control and making the dots all the same size are critical to making these beads look right. Unfortunately, I can't tell you anything that will magically make the beads come out right over night, you'll just have to, yup, practice.
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  #12  
Old 2008-03-28, 8:27am
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My dot placement is good and making the dots all same size is good, too. I've been making nothing but dotted beads for some time now to get the technique down. I think my issue with the kaleidescope beads is the heat control. Is it dark turquoise or light turquoise that's used in those beads? Somehow, it never occured to rotate my bead the opposite direction to control gravity...duh!

Celeste
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  #13  
Old 2008-03-28, 8:40am
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I think the chant of all beginning beadmakers should be PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. There's nothing that can replace it, regardless of technique. I don't get to torch every day, and the only time I really find myself advancing with a given technique is when I'm able to concentrate for several hours at a time. A friend who started around the same time as me found that when she was able to devote hours upon hours for several days in a row, then her techniques and skills grew exponentially. But for some of us, time is limited by families, jobs, and other commitments.

I started out on a Hot Head and had some success, but knew I could grow my skills by upgrading. It's a big financial commitment to buy the torch, oxycon, hoses, etc., plus put in the best ventiation system to keep you safe. But I'm still blown away by some of the beadmakers on here - Gelly, Dasi, Naos, etc., who do their absolutely incredible work on a Hot Head.

Good luck and PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE!

-Diane
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  #14  
Old 2008-03-28, 11:58am
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As I was glancing at this thread again, 2 things occured to me. First, that pix I posted really lost a bunch when I reduced the size. Here is a better one.


The second thing that occured to me is that I shouldn't have taken liberties and changed it to a barrel bead and let the gravity affect it. I did the bead again:


I'm a firm believer in always try to learn something with every bead you make. So, from this bead I learned that for this type of bead, the lt. turquoise (or in the case of the second bead, lt. sky blue) should outweigh the purple by more than 2 or 3 to one. That's the size I used for this bead and the purple spread a bunch. But I think you can still see that the sky blue did get the lines.

If you're having problems with heat control, turn the flame down a bit or work further out. I actually work an inch or two outside the tip of the flame.

Have fun!
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Old 2008-03-28, 2:49pm
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For this technique to work, you need to make the purple dots much smaller than the other dots. It does not matter whether you use light or dark turquoise, they both work fine. Turn the torch down when you melt everything in. The Kaleidoscope effect kinda "blooms" and if you get the bead too hot and let the colors run, it will ruin the bead. Remember, you're just melting the dots in, you don't have to get the whole thing molten all the way through. Just gently melt the dots in and let the effect happen, then take it out of the flame and you're done. BTW, this works beautifully on many dark background colors and on dark transparents too. Have fun, it can be magic when it all comes together and the colors tango with each other the way they're supposed to.
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  #16  
Old 2008-03-28, 7:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarus View Post
I think the chant of all beginning beadmakers should be PRACTICE, PRACTICE, PRACTICE. There's nothing that can replace it, regardless of technique. I don't get to torch every day, and the only time I really find myself advancing with a given technique is when I'm able to concentrate for several hours at a time.
I really like to be able to torch every day. I find that if I don't, I not only do not learn a new technique, but I actually regress and cannot even get a nicely shaped bead which is really frustrating. I'm trying to figure out a way to not continue to take two steps back for every step forward.

Celeste
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  #17  
Old 2008-03-28, 9:39pm
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Like Alex said, place those Evil Purple dots precisely and make them smaller. Don't let the Evil Purple touch another dot. Since you're sort of new, back off from the head of the torch another inch or so if you haven't already. Work about 3 1/2 to 4" away from the head. Take it slower. Keep your bead hot, but don't let it get soupy on the surface. This might mean taking it out of the flame for 2 or 3 seconds to cool off then right back into the flame when soupiness is detected. The idea is to just melt the dots flat, not get the surface all loose and molten. You'll see the dots spread, then the lines will appear across the larger dots shortly after they all go flat on the surface. The lines will look like little crosses. When you see the little crosses...the bead is done.
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Old 2008-03-28, 10:11pm
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I don't have example photos, but I've made them on a HH - patience and practice.
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  #19  
Old 2008-03-29, 5:44am
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Kay, I loved your first photo. I look at the photos in the book and then try to go down and remember all the steps. I love the idea of having a picture of the bead I'm trying to make, right in front of me with the steps in "my speak". I find that everyone has a little different way of explaining how they do something. Same steps, different verbiage.

Corina's video was amazing. Two questions 1) I don't understand why she only heats the bead when melting in the dots. She focuses the heat in the center of the bead and nt on the dots. I will have to go back to the book and read that one again. 2) why is her Rubino Oro red? Mine are all clear. Did she strike them in the kiln first? I hear you can do that, sure would make it easier to find them.

I'm still on the chapter on encasing. I couldn' believe the huge rod she used for encasing. And the zig zag way of laying the clear down. Interesting.

I started on a hot head and just got tired of being in the middle of a bead and loosing presure or running out of fuel. So frustrating.
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Old 2008-03-29, 7:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by simvet02 View Post
2) why is her Rubino Oro red? Mine are all clear. Did she strike them in the kiln first? I hear you can do that, sure would make it easier to find them.
There's different batches of Rubino - she probably had the ones that started as a deep fuschia because the book was printed a bit ago.
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Old 2008-03-29, 8:37am
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It's the one she used in her video that is red.
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  #22  
Old 2008-03-29, 8:47am
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Oooh, -1 for reading comprehension for me, sorry!
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  #23  
Old 2008-03-29, 10:10am
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My rubino is red and I just ordered some of it a few weeks ago.

Celeste
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  #24  
Old 2008-03-29, 10:15am
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Since you're sort of new, back off from the head of the torch another inch or so if you haven't already. Work about 3 1/2 to 4" away from the head.


I moved out on my torch after I cooked my pretty pink swampwater color. I usually try to work about four inches from the blue cone. Is that too far out?
I think I killed the quote I was trying to copy. Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it immensely.

Celeste
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  #25  
Old 2008-03-29, 11:48am
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I found a page that has some good pix of the hothead flame, how big it should be (at least it's how big mine is) and where to work in it:
http://www.turtlebeads.com/instructi...pworkbead.html

I hope that help you Celeste.

Hugs!
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  #26  
Old 2008-03-30, 6:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ginol View Post
I started flame-working and bead making about four months ago using a Hot Head. I had no luck making but the simplest of beads.
For a beginner, making and encasing florals with a Hot Head is equivalent to plucking your eyebrows with a pair of plyers. Sure it can be done, but its not easy! A seasoned glass worker can do anything with almost anything, but a beginner has a tough time doing something even with the best tools.
If you can afford the expense and you have a place to set-up gas tanks, move to a propane/oxygen torch. I use a minor torch.
It makes working with glass a lot easier and lot more fun!
Good luck!
can i politely disagree? i make beads of all kinds on my HH, it just takes practice to get used to where it's best to work in the flame for each technique.

the HH is a great little torch for those on a budget or who arent in a position to have a dual-fuel setup - i just hate to see newbies being discouraged from trying the more complex techniques simply because they're on a slower/beginner torch. most things can be done on a HH, just takes a bit longer and some adaptation to work with the HH's bushier flame.

e.g. Here's my first successful (if slightly burnt) encased floral from a few weeks ago. it was pretty easy (no pliers needed! ) and it didn't take very long to make at all. I'm in the floral exchange so will be trying again...
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Give ideas away - there are new ones underneath... Diane Vreeland
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  #27  
Old 2008-03-31, 11:12am
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kramdas kramdas is offline
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Listenup, I'm with you! I worked on a HotHead for 5 years and still teach on one. I made things on my HotHead that I can't do on my Minor (and vice versa, but I mean mostly color reations, not techniques). I love it, and will always keep it around This horse bead measures 47mm. high by 50mm. wide, done on my HotHead...

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  #28  
Old 2008-03-31, 6:49pm
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CelesteK CelesteK is offline
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I tried the beads again this weekend. I think I may need to make my base bead just a little larger as it looks like the dots end up touching as I melt them in. I still don't have the total effect down, but I got a little closer this time. I really like how the first ones looked even if they weren't "right".

Celeste
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  #29  
Old 2008-03-31, 11:09pm
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The Kaleidoscope bead is not an easy bead to make, so keep trying, you will conquer it with practise.

Making the base bead larger is not a bad idea at this point, it'll help you to space out the dots evenly. Trying to learn to make a Kaleidoscope bead on a tiny base bead would make me pull my hair out. When I learn new techniques I always make a larger bead so I can see what I'm doing, then after I've learned the technique, I scale the bead back down.

What Mendy said is precisely right. Make the colored dots (other than purple) relatively large and space them out as evenly as you can. Make the purple dots small, try to place them evenly between the other bigger dots and don't let them touch the other dots before you melt everything in. During melting the purple dots will expand and push the other colors aside, that is that makes the Kaleidoscope reaction happen. It sounds as if I'm contradicting myself, but I'm not. Before you melt the dots in, they must not touch, during melting they will expand and begin to melt together, then the purple will push the other colors away from itself and concentrate the color in the middles. Melt all the dots slowly and carefully, don't let the bead get soupy and out of control. You will see tiny crosses form on the bead, when that happens, take the bead out of the flame, rotate it until it cools down, then pop it into your kiln or into a bead blanket, and you're done.

When I was a beginner I did the same mistake you and many others make: overheating your bead. I was impatient to get my bead made quickly, but I didn't have the control necessary to work that hot. Do not turn your hot head torch all the way up, or even halfway up, that is working way too hot. It doesn't matter how high you turn the torch up or down. There is no right or wrong level as long as you stay in control of the bead. If you find your bead getting away from you, you are working too hot or too close to the torch or both. I know you're going to hate to hear this, but: learn patience grasshopper. Turn your torch down and work farther out and you will learn faster by melting your glass slower. I would venture to say that most experienced lampworkers would agree with me when I say that heat control in one form or another is probably 75% or more of bead making. Once you master heat control you will be able to make practically anything you can think of out of glass. Without heat control even the most basic technique will make you want to throw your mandrel out the window.
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BHB/PANDORA EXCHANGE IN THE PATIO

Last edited by alexm; 2008-03-31 at 11:16pm.
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  #30  
Old 2008-04-01, 9:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelesteK View Post
Since you're sort of new, back off from the head of the torch another inch or so if you haven't already. Work about 3 1/2 to 4" away from the head.


I moved out on my torch after I cooked my pretty pink swampwater color. I usually try to work about four inches from the blue cone. Is that too far out?
I think I killed the quote I was trying to copy. Thanks for all the help. I appreciate it immensely.

Celeste
That sounds about right, give or take. As Alex said above, you need to work slower until you get good control of heating your glass. For a bead that takes good concentration because of dot placement, always be aware of where you re-introduce your bead into the flame. When I was newer and really concentrating on the details on a bead, I found myself unconsciously bringing my bead closer and closer to myself as I worked. That caused lots of problems until I got used to monitoring myself better.
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