Boro questions

[Sue in Maine]

1) If one is used to soft glass, how long would it take for this person (me) to get used to working with boro.

2) If I took lessons, can someone give me a ballpark idea on how long it would take to learn to do a goblet?

Just thinking...

Sue

[Emily]

Nobody can really say that without seeing you work. Some people make the transition very easily, and some struggle. I'm a struggler. I can only assume that I've picked up some habits working soft glass that are counterproductive to what I want to do with boro, and until I identify what they are and can figure out how to correct them, I'm going to have a bitch of a time making boro do what I want. The other soft glass people who took the classes with me had varying degrees of difficulty with it, but generally had more success than I did. (Right now I'm talking basic boro beads -- shaping and getting colors to strike.)

For doing goblets, you're going to have to learn to work much larger than you're used to, and you're going to have to learn to work tubing. Working tubing requires a different hand motion than we're used to. When we're turning a mandrel, we think we're keeping a continuous rotation, but we're not. We're doing a stop and start -- turn, move your thumb, turn, move your thumb, turn, move your thumb. It's jerky, but it's good enough for beads on a mandrel. It's not good enough for tubing. When you're working with tubing, you're holding it in both hands, and you're alternating the movements of the two hands so that the tubing never stops. It's a continuous smooth movement. And you have to keep the tubing perfectly parallel and centered even when it goes all gooshy in the center -- and that's just the beginning.

The basic first step for tubing work is pulling a point, which is a short section of tubing with a thinned out section on each side as a handle ---<=>---, more or less. The handles need to be perfectly straight and perfectly centered. (Fixing imperfect handles is a skill you learn, too.) It's a practice, practice, practice (practice, practice, practice) thing. If you're interested in doing boro work, you should probably buy a case of tubing, get someone to give you some instruction on how to get started, and then pull some points every time you light your torch for the next six months or however long it takes. (That's exactly what I should be doing, too, but I'm not. I have a nasty little graveyard of disastrous wonky points under my table, but I haven't been keeping up with my practice like a good girl.) After you learn to pull a decent point, then you learn to seal one end and start blowing stuff with them. (If you're like me, what you'll blow will look like mutant root vegetables -- hey, mutant root vegetables need love too.)

If you want to take classes, I recommend Doug Remschneider. A talented artist, a good teacher, and a real sweetie.

[e. mort]

Well, I worked softglass for years before I started on boro last February. After 6 months I am starting to get the colors where I like them, and my form has improved a lot. However, I have been trying to learn to work tubing on the side and I am a long way from making a decent goblet. Tubing just works totally different than solid rod. However, I haven't had much in the way of boro instruction either....

Eric

[Sue in Maine]

Thanks. Our Maine meeting is at Royal River Art Gallery Sept. 30th. I know Seth Parks gives lessons and so does Royal River. I think I'll look into a few lessons. I have the interest. Let's hope I discover and fine tune the talent!

Sue

[Cosmo]

It takes 30 minutes and 30 years to make a goblet. Anyone can make one. Not anyone can make a good one. Even flaring on the cups and feet take the longest to master.

What size torch do you work on? For hollow work (like goblets) I highly suggest a large torch. You don't necessarily need the extra heat, but the wider flame helps immensely. The key to hollow work is even heating. A small torch, no matter how hot, just can't heat the entire piece evenly.

But, like others said, buy some tubing and practice pulling points. Start with something like 26-28mm heavy wall. Pull points, flare them, make inside-out beads, whatever. Just so you learn to open, close, and blow the points out evenly.

I'm not sure how you feel about this kind of thing, but you may want to see if there are any pipemakers in your area that will show you some tips and techniques. Making pipes requires being able to do all of the things I listed. Inside out and blown beads are basically just pipes without bowls or cans.

[Sue in Maine]

I am on a mini cc with one oxy con.

Are goblets, even smaller ones, possible with this torch?

Sue

[Emily]

Here's a link to an article by Robert Mickelsen on working with tubing.

Mickelsen on tubework

It was recommended to me that I stick with medium wall tubing rather than heavy since I'm on a smaller torch (Beth Bead Burner). Unfortunately, I can't remember the diameter.

Bandhu Scott Dunham's Contemporary Lampworking book is a good resource. I've also been studying my copy of Elizabeth Mears' Flameworking. Unfortunately, there's no substitute for the dreaded practice, practice, practice . . . . . . .

[boroburner]

Ive been working hollow for 7yrs and am just now starting to be really happy with my goblets. Im not saying it will take you this long, but it has me.
I find flaring feet is the hardest part, I hit about half of em nowadays. Most top shapes are relativly simple in comparison. My advice to get at it fast would be to take a few classes with people who make goblets. You will learn tonnes and probably recoupe the cost of the class is saved glass. There are deffinetly differnt styles of goblet making and many very helpful little tricks.
Hope this helps.
B

[e. mort]

Who would you recommend? I know of Remschneider and Rasmussen, but are there others that you would recommend specificaly for working tubing? I am thinking of taking a class as well...

[pipyr]

Sue! I'm making my creatures on a MINOR with 1 oxy con! I couldn't imagine making a full-size goblet on this set-up, but you're going to want to work with smaller pieces at first anyway! You could certainly do small vessels and such on your set up, which might be a good place to start. It's kind of like working soft glass on a HH...not fast but it works just fine I recommend getting heavy wall tubing for sure! I find it MUCH easier to work with! I work mostly with 9.5 mm "blow tube" size tubing and it melts plenty fast on my minor. I think if you got some of that and played around with blowing bubbles, vessels, etc, you would have a good idea of how long it would take you to get to the goblet skill level. I still like to work off the end of a tube instead of pulling points and having two ends to worry about whenever I can...it's not easy stuff!! But once you figure out how to keep the heat even enough to blow things with consistant walls, it's at that point that I think you should get some bigger tubing and pull points. Just my personal opinion, though. I get discouraged soooo easily and had to find a way to work around that little problem lol Have fun!!

[boroburner]

Im with pipr on the tube for handles.....Points are so old school(and a pain in the arse). I use 12x2.2mm

You might wanna check out a blowhose and swivel assembly. Makes life soooo much easier.

As for classes there are a bunch.
Steve Sizelove is great, Chris Macelroy makes amazing Tea pots(as seen on GA promo stuff) and is chil as hell. Go old school and take a Brian Kirkvliet class(started lampwork classes @ pilchuck in the 70's), Micha Evans in flordia makes steller stuff. I think RAM is around there too! There are 100's of others i havent mention im sure. And of course if ur ever up in Canada i teach as well.
B

[Sue in Maine]

Our Maine group is meeting at a great art glass shop on Sept. 30th and I know they give lessons. I will explore boro with them then but want to thank everyone for insights. I do have some tubing from Sonje but haven't done anything with it yet. I also have some boro rods but don't have the right glasses. Planned to pick some up at Royal River Art Gallery. Johanna has several sets so I can try them on and see what works best for me since I wear glasses. Then she can order me a pair, if she doesn't have what I want in stock.

My interest is there. I just need to see what works where in my life. There is plenty of time, God willing and the river don't rise!

Thanks to all,

Sue

[c rox]

I worked in soft glass only for 2 years and picked up boro 2 weeks ago or maybe three. With all the info that is available it is easy to "get it" fairly quick. It took a few days to get used to the larger flame and all the other differences. It has been so fun, I can't believe I love boro.
To pop colors and do all the magic stuff I was given the dvd by Doug Remschneider which really decreased the learning curve. I saw it on ebay last week for $40. It is BORO BEAD MAGIC. Full of awesome info!
Cher

[Leanne]

OOOO EEEE I AM SO EXCITED I am going to do a 2 day lesson with someone who has 30 years experience in glass!!! We are going to do inside out beads and a few other things
YAYAYAYAY
!
Will I be able to make the stuff when I get home? I have a mid range with minor top running on bottled oxy. IS the midrange big enough???

[hotflashwanda]

Your minor is big enough to make beads with, using tanked oxygen you will not have a problem.
Anita
www.fireflybeads.com

[Lizabeads]

Does anyone know where to find a tutorial on the inside out beads? I have a shit load of tubing I got from a science building... not sure what kind but figured I can play with it... especially since it was free...

[Cosmo]

The most recent issue of Glass Line has a tutorial on making inside out beads that a friend of mine wrote. www.hotglass.com

[fireflykat51]

Emily that article is fantastic! I'm trying to out enough money together for a full set up, but until I get it I'm so going to practice spinning and heating!

[cadia]

Sue,
Are you going to make goblets to go with all that wine??!!LOL
cadia

[Sue in Maine]

Sally,

Just wishin for more talent, I think. We won't be keeping much of the wine. It's for family members for Christmas... and, if approved, for lampworkers on Sept. 30th! lol

Sue