New Bead Release - Page 4

Planet Glass Products · #91 2011-07-01, 1:28pm

I took two steps back and really thought about the issues of UBR cracking before it was dry and popping off the mandrels. Although I realize that there is no single release that will be perfect for everyone, I still have to ask myself “Is this acceptable?” and “Is this truly the best UBR can be?”… Until I can answer both of those questions “yes”, I still have work to do.

I experimented for about six months with different formulas and procedures to batch release. I ended up with two different mixes that seemed to work great “mix A” and “Mix B”. The main difference between these two mixes is that “mix B” has half as much silica flour in it. I sent both mixes to a network of testers across the country with a questionnaire. The results were 50/50 as to which mix was the best (although most testers thought that both mixes were great… I made them choose a favorite.)… I ended up choosing “mix B” as the UBR formula because it was less expensive to produce and less hazardous… a win/win situation.

I private messaged the few people from the “Universal Bead Release” thread (not this thread) that was experiencing issues with UBR cracking before it was dry and popping off the mandrels and a asked them if they would be willing to receive a sample of “mix A” to compare with UBR. All three agreed to do a test for us. I also sent a few samples to beadmakers that already really liked UBR.

We just received word from the three testers that experienced trouble with UBR and the results are good. None of the three experienced any cracking or popping issues with “mix A”. The few testers that already liked UBR reported that “mix A” seemed to perform a bit better than UBR as well.

I still want to do a few tests, but if everything still points in this direction, we will most likely re-formulate UBR to “mix A”.

Any thoughts?

polka dottie · #92 2011-07-02, 4:01am

I really like your bead release but it is difficult for me to clean out of my bead holes. Any chance that "mix A" will not have this issue. Or is it just me that has this problem? I live in the seascoast of New Hampshire where it is dry in the winter and humid in the summer. My bead release was 332316.

patienthand · #93 2011-07-02, 9:59am

ok.. I live in central florida,, humidity central. I dipped my mandrels 2 weeks ago and ma just now getting to them today. I am typically a Kragg Mud gal, but wanted something stronger for boro and pressed beads.

I found it to be thick when I dipped, but got on with it to give it a try as is.. I tap my mandrels on the table top to get the release to even out.

I first mandrel I used I heated in the outer reaches of my flame and no cracking etc and I made a boro spacer and all seemed fine. second one I heated closer into the flame and instant cracking, so the secret may be to heat it further out. I did go on and make a bead on the non cracked area. The beads are in the kiln now, so will update tonight or tomorrow.

Planet Glass Products · #94 2011-07-02, 1:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by polka dottie

I really like your bead release but it is difficult for me to clean out of my bead holes. Any chance that "mix A" will not have this issue. Or is it just me that has this problem? I live in the seascoast of New Hampshire where it is dry in the winter and humid in the summer. My bead release was 332316.

Lisa has been kind enough to A/B test the mixes for us and let us know how they compare when it comes to bead removal and the cleaning holes. It will be a week or so before she receives the sample of "mix A"... My fingers are crossed.

polka dottie · #95 2011-07-02, 1:20pm

Great. I look forward to hearing how the new mix works.

ShanAV · #96 2011-07-04, 6:56am

I too am looking forward to the new mix. I have a bottle of the current 'recipe' and I can only give it and 'ok' rating. It seems to work all right on smaller rods (1/16 and 3/32) but anything larger and it cracks before I get to the flame (air drying in an air conditioned environment). Plus, I'm seeing an overall higher incidence of beads that will not come off the mandrels. I'm not disappointed enough to raise a stink, it is getting me by, but I would probably try something else in the future because who wants to be frustrated with their hobby?

2tumblingdragonz · #97 2011-07-04, 12:06pm

I'm not sure which thread to post this in.

I am finding no cracking now with either blend. I do find them both difficult to remove from the mandrel and not as easy to clean as some other releases, but when it does clean off it is nice and clean, no tough lingering spots.

Basically I really like this release. I am concerned as to that I was getting cracks that I can't explain, now, except maybe weather shifts.

I really want Tim to have a great release. I really want us to have this great release.

I just dipped a bunch more and will see what happens.

namaste
Rowyn

simvet02 · #98 2011-07-17, 10:41am

I got my bottle of UBR a week ago and dipped some mandrels, the number on the bottom is 107. I'm in central Georgia where it is humid, we do have a dehumidifier running in the basement so it's about 55 percent humidity.
I didn't get around to torching until yesterday. I start all of my beads with a layer of clear glass, I am rough with my beads and bead release, I usually use Dip-N-Go with no cracking problems. This stuff either cracked as I put the clear glass on or while I was shaping the initial bead.
I wondered if it sitting in the humid basement for a week might have done it so I tried dipping a new batch yesterday and tried them this morning. Same thing, I did find that heating in the upper area of the flame was helpful but at some point the stuff cracked off the ends. I'm really disappointed, I can't afford to keep fighting with it so I have gone back to the DNG.
Maybe it's just not going to work in humid areas

Carmen Isaacs · #99 2011-07-17, 12:05pm

I am in a dry area and had the same issues so I doubt it the humidity.

simvet02 · #**100** 2011-07-17, 1:32pm

Well, that's sad. I can't afford to give it any more tries, I've wasted too much glass in the last two days as it is. Those of you that don't start with a clear base and just put opaque glass on, are you able to get all of your beads off the mandrel?
Maybe I should just ignore the huge cracks and spaces where I can clearly see the mandrel underneath...LOL
But after putting in so much work on a bead only to have a big chunk of it stick to the mandrel, no thanks.

DreamMuse · #**101** 2011-07-17, 1:50pm

I posted this in the other thread, but I'll post it again here because it seems to answer a couple of your questions.

This is my experience with UBR:

I live in NY and I like Universal Bead Release a lot. I watered mine down so it's pretty thin, and I pull the mandrels out slowly. It looks translucent at that point; I can see the mandrels through the release. If there's a teeny drip at the tip of the mandrel when it comes out of the release, I touch that drip to the surface of the bead release in the bottle and it comes right off. I also let it dry at least overnight, but have had many mandrels sit waiting for days in anticipation. When the release dries, it's opaque and looks like a thicker coating. I thinned it with tap water, even though the recommendation was to thin it with distilled water.

I don't heat the mandrel to glowing before I apply the glass, nor do I heat it directly in the flame. I rotate the mandrel under the flame until the release gets to be a darker gray, and then it's hot enough to add glass. When I'm done making the bead, I give the bead one final heat soak, then I make sure to heat the mandrel in the flame on either side of the bead, and everywhere there is bare bead release, before putting it in the kiln.

When the bead comes out, all the bare bead release flakes right off, and I don't have any trouble getting the bead off. If I forget that last step, the bare bead release has to be washed off or scraped off, and the bead is usually harder to get off.

simvet02 · #**102** 2011-07-19, 8:10am

I have a photo, to show an example of the cracks I get, what you are seeing is a clear glass bead.

Today I had one of my expensive all silver and silver murrini bead refuse to come off, when I used the rivet tool it broke into pieces and there are chunks stuck to the mandrel where the bead release cracked. So, I'm done with this stuff. I can't afford to hope that the beads will come off the next day. Nor do I have to time to try and find the sweet spot in the flame to heat it so that it won't crack only to find that I missed the spot and have to toss it for another mandrel, don't have enough time or mandrels for that.

I will return the stuff to Frantz and should really ask for the cost of the bead, this is ridiculous.

Little Brushy · #**103** 2011-07-19, 8:16pm

I've got to order a different bead release. I've given this new one multiple chances, but today was infuriating. Start a bead, the release would break. Start a bead, the release would break. This was the worst day yet with the UBR. The release behaves differently every time I use it which I find extremely odd. I just want a replacement.

PiP · #**104** 2011-07-20, 5:20am

Disa - I do the same thing in regards to how I dip my mandrels. I also pull them out slowly and touch the drip on the end so that it flows off. I added a little water to my bottle (even though I thought that it was performing well), it just seemed too thick on the mandrels.

I'd be courious to try one of the bottles that someone is ready to give up on. Since I'm have great success with this product this might be a good test. I would send it back to you if you want it back. If I can get it to work well for me I'd buy it.

loribeads · #**105** 2011-07-20, 12:27pm

I sold mine in the garage sale.

Artistic License · #**106** 2011-07-23, 10:36pm

I purchased this product.....16 oz of it. It does tend to crack on it's own at times. It is super strong other times but the worst problem I encountered is, getting the bead off the mandrel was a serious problem and a major pain. I had my husband remove the beads and he said it was unbelievably horrible, and I have a shit load of bent mandrels to prove it. We tugged and twisted and pulled and I always soak my mandrels in hot water for an hour before removing the bead. This stuff is the worst I have ever tried.

I couldn't stand having so many mandrels trashed so I'm back to foster fire which doesn't give me any headaches.

xiola blue · #**107** 2011-11-24, 8:45am

I finally mixed my UBR with Fusion, just to see if it would be better...I used a prescription bottle for the experiment, not too scientific, but the blend was much better. I have lost a lot of beads with UBR, sadly, part way through the making of them. I won't buy it again, but blending may be the answer for the amount I have left...LOTS!