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  #1  
Old 2019-01-24, 4:30pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Exclamation Working with no ventilation

Hi all... I have a question and feel really really dumb. I know better,but really enjoy lampworking that i actually NEED someone/people who know to give it to me straight. I was lampworking today, in a friends garage.. no ventilation .... working AIOS double helix.( just saying this as its such a silver laden glass) and did some fine silver stringer on the beads. I was only there 2 hours but noticed a bit of heaviness ( ?) irritation cant really explain the feeling in my chest as well as a bit of a metallic taste in my mouth... ok.. i know better, i really know better, but this person is a friend that i torch with.. and donít want to hurt their feelings if i dontíí go back there anymore to torch. I only go once every 2 weeks, for 2 hours. Used to be more regular last year, but have toned it down a bit... i just need some one who knows to say. .Ē Youíre an idiot if you keep doing this and risking your healthĒ...i know i just did that, but i donít take my own advice... no hurt feelings here.. promise!!!!!!
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  #2  
Old 2019-01-24, 5:01pm
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Don't do it. I dropped a class that had no good ventilation because I was having headaches and nausea and we weren't even using silver glass.

Just tell her you can't do it because it is affecting you and you don't want to take any chances with your health. Period. Do not risk your health, especially if you are already showing symptoms!
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Old 2019-01-24, 5:02pm
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And maybe that will wake her up to the dangers to her health too!
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Old 2019-01-24, 5:16pm
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So you would be doing her a favor if she doesn't realize the importance!
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Old 2019-01-24, 5:30pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hi Eileen.. thank you so much for responding so quickly... I really don’t know if i feel a bit of chest heaviness or my imagination.. but i your right.. i guess i don’t want to say symptoms... such denial.last time i was there 2 weeks ago, i felt a slight headache and a wee bit nauseous. But still deny!!!!!! They are fully aware of “all that has to do with torching” as they teach... i’m Not the only student.... so in between a rock and a hard place... i guess suck it up and be truthful?? I feel so mean...
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  #6  
Old 2019-01-24, 6:08pm
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Hi Tina - sorry to hear you are in this situation. I can understand that you are reluctant to lose your studio time and possibly offend.

There is nothing mean about looking out for your health (and that of your friends!). It's obvious that they are NOT aware of "all that has to do with torching" or that they are deliberately choosing to ignore the possible health consequences.

There are a lot of great references out there explaining exactly why good ventilation is so important. Maybe send them a link or two?

http://www.michelsun.com/art-blog/20...tilation-guide

http://www.frantznewsletter.com/2010...t-ventilation/

https://mikeaurelius.wordpress.com/2...-one-overview/
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  #7  
Old 2019-01-24, 7:21pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hi Patty!!! Thanks for the info... i know that they are pretty knowledgable..aware that they need ventilation, not just the door open when the weathers nice, and in a weird way i think maybe figure, its not all that bad, or possibly “ the it can’t happen to me” sort of thinking or even that we are adults and responsible for our own health, checking into things, but you are right.. i think sending a link along with the reason i’m Not going to torch anymore. There is only one person nearby ( thats my friend) that rents torch time..and ii don’t want my own studio..so there are so many avenues in the art world that i think its time to throw in the towel, and get on with other interests. In the meantime, i’ll send that off to my friend, and sort of back up my reason for not going anymore. I mean, if they’re not concerned about my health, at least i should....i am such a chicken.. but they don’t have a chicken imoji...lol btw i’m Such a chicken.. that i posted something like this before, only to think later.. it won’t happen to me, or just sticking my head in the sand in order to get to “torch” ...
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Old 2019-01-24, 7:34pm
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It is hard to speak up sometimes, but in this case, I think you have to do it. They need to know that you were concerned enough for your health that you are willing to give up lampwork to protect yourself from any possible side effects from breathing in the fumes from the torch as well as the melting glass with its various components. Silver is heavy metal I believe, or that is what I was told anyway, and I have no desire to test what it can do to me by breathing in fumes. But there are other things in glass to make the colors that are not great to breathe either. Remember they closed down a couple of glass factories in the US because of the cadmium and other things that were getting in the air and soil.

The companies have added filters and such to clean things up now, and we need to do our part to keep ourselves healthy around it.
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  #9  
Old 2019-01-24, 9:22pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hiya Eileen..yes, i know i have to say something,, and the sooner the better. I hate having to maybe lose a friend because they might think i’m May be overreacting.( no pun,seriously ) or that i don’t have faith in them that they know what they’re doing ...I had a sister in law that passed last week.. of lung cancer... smoking related. I quit smoking 25 years ago, due to health concerns. Now I deliberately put myself in potential harms way? Duh wake up call... I think I needed a bit of a shove, so i’ll Give it a go and be done with it. I have to pick up todays lot, and when i do, that will be it. I’ll let ya know... it will be interesting...thanks for the support, always need a second or third ( now) push to stop being stupid.. thanks again.. xx tina
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Old 2019-01-25, 6:46am
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We are all with you, remember it is not you, it is in all the books, and lots of us have experiences that back it up. Hugs!
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  #11  
Old 2019-01-25, 8:35am
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hi Eileen.. thanks for the wonderful sentiments. I did read the links that Patty k listed and i really think that they hit home. Sometimes it doesn’t pay to be nice, and i will admit that i have mentioned ventilation before to them and it sort of got lost in the conversation. So i think that possibly they think if i’m That concerned.. why go? I have heard over and over about the safety ( or not) issues with lampwoking .. even on this forum only to think ..well, its just me being paranoid. Or maybe people don’t understand how this is set up etc. Well i really appreciate your kind sentiments and i am going online to a facebook de-stash and going to see what i have to do to get rid of my stuff.. its gonna take time, but i dont think i’ll miss it after seeing all this.... hugs right back to you all... xx
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Old 2019-01-25, 10:15am
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If you wanted to be more delicate about it, while still addressing the issue, you could say something like, "I know different bodies react to lampworking differently, but I think my body is telling me not to torch without ventilation." We all have to listen to what our own bodies are telling us, and yours isn't happy to be breathing in that stuff. (I have felt what you felt, and it was a serious wake-up call to me.) Maybe your friend doesn't notice or is affected differently. I would really hope you wouldn't lose a friend over it. It is certainly worth giving a conversation a try, though. It could jump-start some thinking in your friend's mind about addressing the ventilation situation. In a best-case scenario, you might work together to get some ventilation in place.

Good luck.
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  #13  
Old 2019-01-25, 1:09pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hiya Yonil! What a great idea! Just to explain to them that my body isn’t handling the fumes etc very well.. which is true. I will be picking up my lot this weekend, and plan on addressing this issue. Its been bought up by me before, but somehow it ends up with the garage door open a bit in winter and all the way in summer. I haven’t torched very much in the last year .. we had a terribly hot summer so i didn’t torch. But last time( 2 weeks ago) was the fist time and noticed the headache and nausea. So like someone who ought to know better, i went back yesterday and thats when i noticed the scratchy throat and a bit of chest discomfort which is gone, but could be winter flu/cold...but i dont know what makes people like me keep going back. I have commented on this very subject before, the same issue, the same people ...the same answer....so i would say that i have rocks in my head. I’ve definalty decided to destash my glass etc. I have many other projects that I can focus on.. but i really appreciated the “kind” way of saying..I ain’t doing this anymore without hurt feelings... thanks and hugs. Xx btw i text last night to them saying that i had enjoyed torching but noticed a “metallic” sort of taste in my mouth... they texted back that they didn’t.......
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  #14  
Old 2019-01-25, 1:48pm
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It sounds to me like your friend has maybe made up their mind on the ventilation situation, and is choosing to pretend it's not an issue. I get it--ventilation is hard to tackle if you don't have someone around that is really handy, who can help out with it. They might not have hurt feelings to hear you say you felt effects from the torch situation, but texting back that they didn't feel anything, instead of any acknowledgement that ventilation could be an issue, seems a bit like denial to me. Sounds like you're making the right decision here. I do hope that some time in the future a torch with ventilation finds its way back into your life.
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Old 2019-01-25, 2:33pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hi again Yonil! Yes, i’m Pretty sure my friend has made up their mind.. as i have brought it up, dropped it, and gone torching again. so i think that they may think that I don’t find it a big deal. But denial is my middle name i think. We used to live in a much larger city, and i had no problem going to a well known studio. With proper ventilation and safety procedures..but moving back to my smaller hometown, leaves you with no options.unless i got my own torch etc at home..no thanks. Yea i was a little surprised after sending that text, because i do enjoy my friends, and my time there, so it was an acknowledgment to that as well as gently mentioning the issue at hand, the metallic taste.. but getting back, just 3 words,” no, we’re fine.” Well i think thats when i made up my mind.......i may torch again someday, but like i said, i have many projects on the go, and had left lampworking aside for quite awhile.. but nothing really changes sometimes... so i think, no actually i know i got my wake up call...thanks for being so understanding and supportive.. its really nice to know that people out there, even if you don’t know them... they care. I’ll keep you posted, I’m going to go inventory my glass, and presses, and frit and and and and..lol Hugs...xx
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  #16  
Old 2019-01-25, 6:20pm
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Lorraine Chandler Lorraine Chandler is offline
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If you really want to impress upon your friend safety first, and you like your torch time together and don't want to miss it, you can wear a full face respirator. I have one and use it most of the time. It takes a little to get used to but when you are finished torching you will feel just fine.

Your friend might get tired of looking at you looking like something out of Star Wars.....LOL But it will let her know how serious you are but that you also still want to torch with her..

I have a couple of posts in the following thread link that you might find very helpful.
http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246508&highlight=full+face+respir ator
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Old 2019-01-25, 6:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorraine Chandler View Post
If you really want to impress upon your friend safety first, and you like your torch time together and don't want to miss it, you can wear a full face respirator. I have one and use it most of the time. It takes a little to get used to but when you are finished torching you will feel just fine.

Your friend might get tired of looking at you looking like something out of Star Wars.....LOL But it will let her know how serious you are but that you also still want to torch with her..

I have a couple of posts in the following thread link that you might find very helpful.
http://lampworketc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=246508&highlight=full+face+respir ator
Just make sure you fully understand how to wear a full fitting respirator. If it does not seal properly or have the correct cartridges for the specific air contamination then it will not protect you as desired. I recommend proper ventilation first.
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Old 2019-01-25, 9:35pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Thank you Lorraine and Emery. This sounds like a great idea! I’m still thinking I’ve convinced myself to take a hike. If someone doesnt care about their own safety thats one thing, (myself included)thats on them. But I’m paying $ /hour and they aren’t particularly worried about the health and safety of their clients (me) and if i were to get sick ( a possibility, even a remote one) then why on earth am paying for that? I think in this situation i am going to pick up my lot and be kind and firm and say that the health effects i have felt just isn’t cutting it. If they decide down the road they want ventilation ( i’ve mentioned a few times) then that’s up to them... until if and when, i’ll be doing other projects, and if they get ventilation..proper ventilation....give me a call.. until then ..we can just hang and get a cup of coffee or something. They’ve been told about their ventilation concerns, i’m Not going to risk my health.. and if we stay friends then that’s great.. if not, then i guess we weren’t friends really after all...
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Old 2019-01-25, 9:47pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Thank you all for giving me support, ideas, and practical solutions. Its so nice to find people out there willing to lend a hand with some advice support or whatever. Its funny, the more you read what you write, and look at it from other persons perspective.. it gives you a good handle just where you are in life. It really helped me make a decision that I can live with... either one day i’ll get a chance to torch again, and if not...i have some really pretty beads i can be proud of!!! How’s that for a good spin?? Lol xx i’ll Let ya know......
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Old 2019-01-26, 8:08am
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Good decision, and who knows, it may be just the thing they need to make them reconsider the ventilation issue and maybe you can go back into glass. Maybe hold on to your supplies a few months just in case?
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Old 2019-01-26, 11:54am
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hi ya Eileen!! Thanks so much for the support... hard decision to make when you loooove lampworking. Yea, i’ll be seeing them tomorrow and will let them know i’m done. When i re read all the stuff going back and forth.. it was so obvious. It was just difficult the other day as i had just started working the silver laden glass.. which has been hard for me for years!! So i got to work the DH iaso... and OMG it is SO BEAUTIFUL!!!!! Thats the first time I got beautiful results from silver glass!!! But i think that if you work in any room with either chemicals, or gasses, or paint etc..being in a room with no ventilation is just dumb. But i was so hooked on the iaso. Honestly it’s truly beautiful but certainly NOT the cause of how I was feeling.. that was the small room wit no ventilation...duh....but if you have a great set up... and work soft glass 104coe... omg DH is stunnnnnnnning..i hope if you havent tried it, you might want to, the reactions are gorgeous...and I am NOT going back to THAT studio.. almost talked myself back into it... lol..but I surely will keep you posted, and let me know if you hav ever worked the DH...so so stunning!!!
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Old 2019-01-26, 12:28pm
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I have taken a class with Hayley Tsang Satther, and she makes it sing! I do love it also, but I don't use it without good ventilation when I pull it out. I mainly make beads for BOC so don't use it most of the time, but I did pull out a rod of a test batch I bought, and tested it today, then encased the bead so I could mail it in.
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Old 2019-01-26, 1:45pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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I’m sorry i’m Not familiar with Hayley so i’m going to look her up. So you do use coe104? Less and less makers of it i think. But its all i know. Anyway, thanks for the tip on Hayley and get a look at her work...sounds like its cool.
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Old 2019-01-26, 1:52pm
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Wow!i just checked out Hayley’s work! You are right! She does make it sing!!!! I saw colours that i didn't know existed! I see she has cut back her teaching schedule, so it says..so you were very lucky to get a class with her. Thanks for the info....
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Old 2019-01-26, 2:45pm
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I have other Coe's too but 104 is my go-to glass for what I do most of the time.
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Old 2019-02-01, 11:52am
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Sorry. Hard nose here.

As you gently break up with this person you might want to tell them that hy charging for torch time means they are a business and could easily be sued for this.

Ugly, I know but the presumption is that ANY commercial establishment is responsible for their client's safety.
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Old 2019-02-09, 2:16pm
ColetteDeerman ColetteDeerman is offline
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No excuse for poor ventilation, except ignorance. I'd RUN, not walk, from any studio that had inadequate air quality. Not good.
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Old 2019-02-12, 11:24am
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hi ya 5betsy and Colette .. well, yes i gave up the torching. I said in a previous post that i had texted them and mentioned that i had a metallic taste in my mouth that last time I torched and asked how they were, and got “no we’re fine” and that was it. Well i went to pick up that last bunch of beads the other day and definitely got a cold shoulder ... maybe it was because there was a bad cold going around the house, they didn’t sound too great. But wow, I definalty found a cold shoulder and my husband said that he thought that they were concerned about liability etc. He said that he thought they were scared and thats why the response was non-commital, just no we’re fine, and not a question about me or how i was doing... which was odd as when i have been sick with a cold etc.. they was always a text, how you doing etc? So that day after i picked up my beads, i felt really bad, like i lost a dear friend, and felt like i had done something wrong. So i’m done with torching and have a lovely stash of beads that i made over the years that I can make lovely jewelry with, and by that time maybe there will be a “real studio” in town that i can work at. Who knows? Thanks to all for listening to my wishy washy complaining, and giving you’re impression straight out there... you all helped me make a hard decision into the right decision!!! All the best to you all and happy safe torching....
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Old 2019-02-12, 3:03pm
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Tina, that must have been hard, but I'm glad you decided to protect your own health. May you enjoy creating beauty out of the beads you have made, and someday find a studio with safety measures in place!
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Old 2019-02-13, 8:01am
Tina Whitton Tina Whitton is offline
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Hey Eileen! So nice to hear from you! Yes it was harder than I thought. I guess because I thought of these people as friends, and not just people to rent torch time from. When i went to pick up the beads, she practically shoved them at me, and he just stood there...usually there is some courtesy exchanged, but nada. Lampworking is so addictive and glass is such a beautiful thing to work with, when done safely and considerately.... But the nearest place is 2 hour drive away.. so i guess its not meant to be,but let me tell ya its taken me years to finally make this decision... its crazy, but you ( meaning me) would always make excuses... even with the advice i would get from this site,my husband etc. but i’m really glad that i did, and have met lovely people like yourself who dont judge... which I was really concerned about...getting heck for being stupid... i just needed some sage, non judgemental advice, which is exactly what i got!! Thanks for the support and kindness, you’re a lovely person!!
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