I use a ------- and here's why...

Holly · #1 2005-09-23, 9:19pm

At the risk of stirring up passions, I would like to know something.
I would like to know:
What torch are you using. And why do you like it, or *not* like it.
The more specific, the better!

I am on the fence here. I have used a HH for 3 years. It suits me pretty well.
I can exploit some of its "drawbacks" to my advantage.
My main problem is the slow heating of the initial gather. Other wise,
I do OK. I'm open to trying something new, so tell me why I should try
your favorite torch!
Snarking, sniping and slandering can go in the you-know-where.
I'd like the testimonials of personal experience!

Tell all,
Thanks ahead of time,
H

BTW- I do mostly longish focals w/lots of pattern, silver and reduction techniques.

chrisdd · #2 2005-09-23, 9:44pm

Hi, Holly!

I've been looking for you on all the Hot Head threads. If anyone has any doubts about the kind of beads that can be made on a HH, they only need to look at yours.

I use a Minor because it works on natural gas and an oxy con. I was very keen on not dealing with tanks. I never even considered a Hot Head because I knew I would quickly become impatient with how slowly it melts glass.

Dwaine Scum · #3 2005-09-23, 9:49pm

Well this is just my personal opinion, I was taught on a Carslile CC++, its a great torch, but it is a air/gas hog... you will have to have a Liquid Dewar, a t cell tank will last you 8 hours... now, I stick with the Bethlihiem burner.. the pm-d2 water cooled. Now here is the stickler about the pump, Bethlhiem sells the "pump kit" for $400 extra... screw that, goto home depot, get a fountain SUBMEWRSABLE pump for $20, and the appropriate tubing for your torch, and a nice rubbermaid bin... a good sized at least 5 gallon one. Fill the bucket /bin with water, hook up your submersable pump, plug it in Violla, you are set for under $30.

now this is just my opinion...

Holly · #4 2005-09-23, 9:52pm

Back at ya Chris!
Thanks for responding with just the kind of useful info I was looking for!
I'm not keen on the tanks, either.
Can you get a soft bushy flame with your minor?

JCHerrellGlass · #5 2005-09-23, 9:55pm

I use a minor. I feel limited by it because my love for glass is getting much bigger and more towards boro. Otherwise it's very nice. It survived my learning & screwing up and holds steady and faithful even now.

I was almost decided that I would get a GTT Phantom (soon)... but I used Heidi's Mirage. Nice. Maybe... there's no point in not going all the way. I'm on the fence... it's a big financial leap, but I can't let stupid money make those kinds of decisions for me any more.

I teach on a HH and it has it's merit. I also occasionally hop on the HH if the minor is packed up or something. If I ever use shampoo glass I would use the HH.

loribeads · #6 2005-09-23, 9:55pm

I use a minor/propane/oxy con but I also own a hot head and a lynx.

I've never really used the hot head, mostly because I only bought a couple of those little mapp canisters. My friend used to borrow it to practice at home.

I used the lynx for a little while. Maybe a month or so? I didn't like it as much as I thought I would so I went back to using the minor. I still have the lynx. It's packed away safely in a drawer. I may give it another try when my second oxy concentrator gets here.

I like the minor because it isn't fussy, it's clean burning and most of all because I'm used to it.

Holly · #7 2005-09-23, 9:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaine Scum

Well this is just my personal opinion, I was taught on a Carslile CC++, its a great torch, but it is a air/gas hog... you will have to have a Liquid Dewar, a t cell tank will last you 8 hours... now, I stick with the Bethlihiem burner.. the pm-d2 water cooled. Now here is the stickler about the pump, Bethlhiem sells the "pump kit" for $400 extra... screw that, goto home depot, get a fountain SUBMEWRSABLE pump for $20, and the appropriate tubing for your torch, and a nice rubbermaid bin... a good sized at least 5 gallon one. Fill the bucket /bin with water, hook up your submersable pump, plug it in Violla, you are set for under $30.

now this is just my opinion...

Dwaine! Thank you!
What's a "Liquid Dewar"? And a T cell tank-assuming that's an oxy tank?
This is some good stuff- and you save me $370!!! Great directions.
Do you work in soft glass or boro (or both)?

DesertDreamer · #8 2005-09-23, 10:04pm

I'll bite, because I truly think it's a matter of personal preference, economy and what you want/need to accomplish.

I learned on a HH. One of those nifty kits from Lark Books with Cindy Jenkins (gods bless her!) small booklet. Of course, that only lasted me about 5 sessions because it WAS loud, scared me silly, and I had no clue what I was really doing.

Several months later I took a class with Kate Fowle, on a Minor. Love at first sight! I tried to repeat what I'd learned on my HH and it frustrated me...a LOT. Made beads happily on my Minor for 2 years. But I discovered a really good use for the HH about a year into that love affair....working with dichro. I would fry/destroy/obliterate the poor innocent dichro on the Minor, but for some reason I could make it sing on the HH. I worked with a "dual" station for about a year before I finally spent a looong weekend trying to figure out how to make it work on the Minor. Victory!

Not long after I realized I was making larger and more eccentric-shaped beads. I read, chatted, reasearched (this was before WC, and even the SGB...before they added the "I"...wasn't much of an entity yet) on various torches. Finally, I made arrangements with the Very Good Guys at Wale Apparatus to test drive several torches. I tried a Major, a Midrange Plus, a GTT Lynx and a GTT Phantom. At the time I didn't need a HOTTER torch nearly as much as I needed a BIGGER flame. The Midrange was perfect. And still is....I've grown into it rather nicely and love it a bunch.

And the moral of the story is.....I FINALLY got my NG line connected today so I'm MAKING BEADS tomorrow!!!!!!

Holly · #9 2005-09-23, 10:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by loribeads

I use a minor/propane/oxy con but I also own a hot head and a lynx.

I've never really used the hot head, mostly because I only bought a couple of those little mapp canisters. My friend used to borrow it to practice at home.

I used the lynx for a little while. Maybe a month or so? I didn't like it as much as I thought I would so I went back to using the minor. I still have the lynx. It's packed away safely in a drawer. I may give it another try when my second oxy concentrator gets here.

I like the minor because it isn't fussy, it's clean burning and most of all because I'm used to it.

Minor= one oxycon
Lynx = two oxycons?

This is the kind of info that could sway me. I'm so low tech it's not funny.
I guess that makes the Lynx hotter? Hotter=faster?
See how much educating I need?

H

Holly · #10 2005-09-23, 10:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JCHerrellGlass

I use a minor. I feel limited by it because my love for glass is getting much bigger and more towards boro. Otherwise it's very nice. It survived my learning & screwing up and holds steady and faithful even now.

I was almost decided that I would get a GTT Phantom (soon)... but I used Heidi's Mirage. Nice. Maybe... there's no point in not going all the way. I'm on the fence... it's a big financial leap, but I can't let stupid money make those kinds of decisions for me any more.

I teach on a HH and it has it's merit. I also occasionally hop on the HH if the minor is packed up or something. If I ever use shampoo glass I would use the HH.

Thanks!
I'm starting to get a clue here.
Hotter=faster AND bigger AND boro.
I love boro, but it's not for me (at least for now)
H

Holly · #11 2005-09-23, 10:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by DesertDreamer

I'll bite, because I truly think it's a matter of personal preference, economy and what you want/need to accomplish.

I learned on a HH. One of those nifty kits from Lark Books with Cindy Jenkins (gods bless her!) small booklet. Of course, that only lasted me about 5 sessions because it WAS loud, scared me silly, and I had no clue what I was really doing.

Several months later I took a class with Kate Fowle, on a Minor. Love at first sight! I tried to repeat what I'd learned on my HH and it frustrated me...a LOT. Made beads happily on my Minor for 2 years. But I discovered a really good use for the HH about a year into that love affair....working with dichro. I would fry/destroy/obliterate the poor innocent dichro on the Minor, but for some reason I could make it sing on the HH. I worked with a "dual" station for about a year before I finally spent a looong weekend trying to figure out how to make it work on the Minor. Victory!

Not long after I realized I was making larger and more eccentric-shaped beads. I read, chatted, reasearched (this was before WC, and even the SGB...before they added the "I"...wasn't much of an entity yet) on various torches. Finally, I made arrangements with the Very Good Guys at Wale Apparatus to test drive several torches. I tried a Major, a Midrange Plus, a GTT Lynx and a GTT Phantom. At the time I didn't need a HOTTER torch nearly as much as I needed a BIGGER flame. The Midrange was perfect. And still is....I've grown into it rather nicely and love it a bunch.

And the moral of the story is.....I FINALLY got my NG line connected today so I'm MAKING BEADS tomorrow!!!!!!

Fantastic! New info- "a bigger flame". This is a new idea for me and I think it may be important for my needs if it is useful for larger/longer beads.
The pinpoint flame of the minor seems great for smaller beads (or not?)
but I'm not sure about it for long/large beads.
Thanks Karen, and have fun torching tomorrow!

Shawn T · #12 2005-09-23, 10:23pm

Holly Hey Honey,
I have a minor and have loved it, I have had it for years now and have been very happy with it. I run it with propane and one concentrator and have never had a problem with it. Oh and I started on a HH and had no difficult learning curve when I switch to the minor.
I have just bought a Pirahna, But have not set it up yet. Been too busy getting ready for a show next week to play with a new torch. It will burn hotter with one concentrator. Sorry I can't give you more info on the Pirahna, give me a couple of weeks and I'll let you know how I like it and the difference between that and the minor.

JCHerrellGlass · #13 2005-09-23, 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holly Cooper

Thanks!
I'm starting to get a clue here.
Hotter=faster AND bigger AND boro.
I love boro, but it's not for me (at least for now)
H

U R Welcome. I'll add FASTER to bigger and boro. But speed is totally an individual thing. Slow is good sometimes for me, but mostly fast is my thing. The best part of the Mirage is that the inner torch is a lynx so I still (instantly) revert to smaller, yet powerful. I really super like that. I like the pinpoint controls, too. The minor lacks that bonus.

My only torch regret is not getting, or knowing enough about, bigger torches right off the bat.

Kaibeads · #14 2005-09-23, 10:56pm

lynx + 1 concentrator. It works better than any other torch on one concentrator. Better heat and better detail. It's much more precise for making beads. If you dont want precise, I'm sure a minor will do just fine.

PyroChixRock · #15 2005-09-23, 11:15pm

You do not need liquid unless you are using a LOT of oxy, and I mean a K tank every day at least. Liquid builds pressure and if you don't use it, it will build pressure and vent, thus costing you money for not working, or just not working and using the oxy fast enough. It WILL save you a LOT of money if you use a lot of oxy, but if you're used to running on a concentrator, you won't save by using it. Hope this helps.

Holly · #16 2005-09-23, 11:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shawn T

Holly Hey Honey,
I have a minor and have loved it, I have had it for years now and have been very happy with it. I run it with propane and one concentrator and have never had a problem with it. Oh and I started on a HH and had no difficult learning curve when I switch to the minor.
I have just bought a Pirahna, But have not set it up yet. Been too busy getting ready for a show next week to play with a new torch. It will burn hotter with one concentrator. Sorry I can't give you more info on the Pirahna, give me a couple of weeks and I'll let you know how I like it and the difference between that and the minor.

Hey Shawn!
Glad to hear about your learning curve experience. That's a concern of mine.
Let me know about the Pirahna if you get a chance.
Good Luck with your show!

H

Holly · #17 2005-09-23, 11:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaibeads

lynx + 1 concentrator. It works better than any other torch on one concentrator. Better heat and better detail. It's much more precise for making beads. If you dont want precise, I'm sure a minor will do just fine.

I do a lot of intricate stringer work-is this where the "precision" comes in?
I'm so used to the bushy soft flame of the HH which is definitely NOT precise
by any means! I think I need some test driving.
Thanks for your input!
H

Holly · #18 2005-09-23, 11:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyroChixRock

You do not need liquid unless you are using a LOT of oxy, and I mean a K tank every day at least. Liquid builds pressure and if you don't use it, it will build pressure and vent, thus costing you money for not working, or just not working and using the oxy fast enough. It WILL save you a LOT of money if you use a lot of oxy, but if you're used to running on a concentrator, you won't save by using it. Hope this helps.

I'm getting a broad picture, which is great. Every bit of info helps!
Thanks much!
H

*Sally* · #19 2005-09-23, 11:43pm

Hey Holly,
I'm pretty new around here as far as posting is concerned but I though I'd throw my 2c in.
I started on a HH and lasted about 18 mths before I switched over to a minor with an oxycon. Time was a big factor in the decision for me. I mostly do large heavily encased florals and it was taking way too long on the HH. I love the minor, it's nice and clean, hot enough for what I do and I only have to refill the gas bottle once every 3 mths or so.

But, I would never get rid of the HH. It's noisy and fumy but it has worked really well and it can't hurt to have it as backup.

cheers
Sally

Dwaine Scum · #20 2005-09-23, 11:52pm

this is a liquid dewar

K tanks lasted 8 to 12 hours for me, a liquid dewar lastys a month, and it costs me $60 to refill.. a k cylender is less expensive to refill ($8) but If I have to get one every few days it adds up... it all boils down to what serves your pourpose... If you are running a minor, then Liquid would be overkill for sure...

If you use a Air hog like me, then you would save $$$ on a dewar... Or the other gas hogs

Holly · #21 2005-09-24, 12:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dwaine Scum

this is a liquid dewar

K tanks lasted 8 to 12 hours for me, a liquid dewar lastys a month, and it costs me $60 to refill.. a k cylender is less expensive to refill ($

but If I have to get one every few days it adds up... it all boils down to what serves your pourpose... If you are running a minor, then Liquid would be overkill for sure...

If you use a Air hog like me, then you would save $$$ on a dewar... Or the other gas hogs

AHA! Thanks for the pics. (Is that frost on that tank??) I think you're right about the overkill in my case. I'm always open to an education, tho.

H

Anakin's Glass Eye · #22 2005-09-24, 12:11am

I currently use a Lynx with propane and one oxycon. Occasionally I use tanked Oxy for larger Boro pieces. A second oxycon is on the way so I can return the oxy bottle - 80 cu-ft 'J' tank gives me about 8 hours on my Lynx with regulator set at at 5 psig. A refill is $15.00.

GTT makes some very high quality equipment. Their torches are very efficient and keep cool. Somewhat pricey but you get what you pay for. I love my Lynx because of the control it gives. With enough Oxy I can do a 1.5" Boro marble in a reasonable amount of time. I can also still use it for soft glass. So I guess what I'm saying is GTT Lynx = flexibility + capability + efficiency + quality.

I used a Hot Head for over two years and a Nortel Minor for one year. Each torch has it's advantages. I'd recommend baby steps as you advance your skills and equipment. Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.

rightbrainbeads · #23 2005-09-24, 12:11am

Holly! I love your beads!!!

I keep seeing them in show and tells and they're simply awesome!

I was so happy on a Minor and 5 lpm oxy concentrator for about 5 years... I can't say enough good things about a Minor... it's such a work horse and works beautifully on one concentrator. Then I thought I wanted to 'upgrade' to a Lynx, so I did, but I didn't like the narrow flame or the flame chemistry (I loved the reactions I could get with silver and frit on the Minor). I sold the Lynx after a few months and went back to my trusty Minor...

Last winter I bought a Barracuda and an Integra 10 oxy concentrator from Paulette. It runs the Barracuda so beautifully and is truly the most wonderful set up so far. With the outer ring on I have a flame that's about 3/4 - 1" wide and it quickly melts gathers or keeps long beads toasty. And, AND (the best part

) I love the flame chemistry of the Barracuda... lots of nice reactions happening with silver and frit, which is important to me.

Torches are all so different... if you can 'test drive' the ones you think you're interested in, that'd be the best!

lynne

p.s. the Piranha is the center fire of a Barracuda, and like Shawn says, it's hotter-- a much more penetrating heat than a Minor...

gmdcrafts · #24 2005-09-24, 12:29am

I didn't even start on a HH, I used a Weller plumber's torch from hubbie's tool box - for the 1st 6 months! Then I felt I was ready for a bigger, hotter torch suitable for soft glass. Switched to a Minor, and am still happily using that today, with no plan to get another anytime soon. The BBQ propane tanks last about 6 to 8 weeks for me (usually torching anywhere from 4 to 8 hr/day), and I use an oxy concentrator.

beadstillmyheart · #25 2005-09-24, 12:37am

I use a HH because:

1. I just started a few months ago and wanted to make sure I liked it before investing.
2. We've been very poor lately.
3. My beads still pretty much suck and I can't justify spending a bunch of money until I feel like I can do better work.

beadstillmyheart · #26 2005-09-24, 12:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by beadstillmyheart

I use a HH because:

1. I just started a few months ago and wanted to make sure I liked it before investing.
2. We've been very poor lately.
3. My beads still pretty much suck and I can't justify spending a bunch of money until I feel like I can do better work.

Wanted to add that from all I've read the Bethlehem Piranha seems like a good choice to work towards...any thoughts?

Holly · #27 2005-09-24, 12:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anakin's Glass Eye

I currently use a Lynx with propane and one oxycon. Occasionally I use tanked Oxy for larger Boro pieces. A second oxycon is on the way so I can return the oxy bottle - 80 cu-ft 'J' tank gives me about 8 hours on my Lynx with regulator set at at 5 psig. A refill is $15.00.

GTT makes some very high quality equipment. Their torches are very efficient and keep cool. Somewhat pricey but you get what you pay for. I love my Lynx because of the control it gives. With enough Oxy I can do a 1.5" Boro marble in a reasonable amount of time. I can also still use it for soft glass. So I guess what I'm saying is GTT Lynx = flexibility + capability + efficiency + quality.

I used a Hot Head for over two years and a Nortel Minor for one year. Each torch has it's advantages. I'd recommend baby steps as you advance your skills and equipment. Being underpowered is a tremendous advantage when learning new things because it forces you to be patient. Less heat is advantageous because you can more easily maintain control of the flow of the glass. Anyone who has gone from a Hot Head to a Minor or Lynx knows exactly what I'm saying.

This winter or next spring I'll be going pro with a GTT Mirage, foot pedals, 100 LB propane tank, liquid Oxy and a 'real' studio complete with booming audio, and light shows, wooooooo hooooooooo! Can't wait ! ! ! ! ! Flame off's once a month. You bring the beer.

This is soooo helpful. I'm getting some great responses and I especially love to hear the comparisons of people who have used a HH because they know what it does in relation to the others.
Thanks!
H

Zooziis · #28 2005-09-24, 12:55am

Girlie, what you do on a hot head is more then OK... I love the bead I got from you at the Gathering!!

Holly · #29 2005-09-24, 12:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rightbrainbeads

Holly! I love your beads!!!

I keep seeing them in show and tells and they're simply awesome!

I was so happy on a Minor and 5 lpm oxy concentrator for about 5 years... I can't say enough good things about a Minor... it's such a work horse and works beautifully on one concentrator. Then I thought I wanted to 'upgrade' to a Lynx, so I did, but I didn't like the narrow flame or the flame chemistry (I loved the reactions I could get with silver and frit on the Minor). I sold the Lynx after a few months and went back to my trusty Minor...

Last winter I bought a Barracuda and an Integra 10 oxy concentrator from Paulette. It runs the Barracuda so beautifully and is truly the most wonderful set up so far. With the outer ring on I have a flame that's about 3/4 - 1" wide and it quickly melts gathers or keeps long beads toasty. And, AND (the best part

) I love the flame chemistry of the Barracuda... lots of nice reactions happening with silver and frit, which is important to me.

Torches are all so different... if you can 'test drive' the ones you think you're interested in, that'd be the best!

lynne

p.s. the Piranha is the center fire of a Barracuda, and like Shawn says, it's hotter-- a much more penetrating heat than a Minor...

Hey Lynne! Thanks so much!
This outer ring with the wide flame sounds interesting. The reactions are also very important to me. They are the basis of most of my work lately, so this is good to know.
H

Holly · #30 2005-09-24, 12:57am

Well, I stayed up late to monitor the hurricane and now that it has landed- I'm bushed!
And I don't mean George!
I'm going to check back in tomorrow-G'nite all!
H