The GTT Scorpion

[lripster]

Music to my ears, Trey. Thank you!!!

[Kirima]

Originally Posted by Trey Cornette

... I think this torch is going to change the way bead makers think about torches..... All in all I find this to be a wonderful addition to the GTT family and I truly believe it will change the way we think about flame control and glass working in the home studio setting.

Thank you for your posting, Trey! Very well said! I totally agree. I've only been able to play for two hours this afternoon: it had been such an overwhelming experience that I had felt totally exhausted after this short period of time! This torch will certainly change MY WAY of thinking about flame control and glass working. Today I've only got a glimpse of the possibilities this torch is offering, but I knew right away that the Scorpion will change my way of making beads and of course it will have an influence on the look of my beads as well. So I'm very curious where this torch will lead me to!

I hope to soon read more about the experiences you're all making with this new torch!
Martina

[pam]

So, I played a little more yesterday and I just love the flame chemistry of this torch. I was a little concerned with not having the triple mix, but it seems to work great.

[beetslive]

Gorgeous fish Pam!!!!
Debbie

[mtarara]

Yes, gorgeous fish!!! Malcolm set mine up and I will fire it up tomorrow!!!!!!!
Mary T.

[mtarara]

Here's some pics. The marver I bought from Malcolm, its from Burning Brass and is nice and long for my long beads!!!



Mary T.

[bead crazy]

Originally Posted by Trey Cornette

True enough but my whole idea was to simplify and lighten the load. I had plans to building a mini foot pedal with smaller hoses, solenoids and fittings as well.
That may be getting a bit complicated when I can just continue using my Barracuda and Hot Ass Tools foot pedal.
When it comes down to it I would not be saving that much weight and would be giving up quite a bit of flame size.
I am sure I will have no problems passing this wonderful torch on to someone should I decide it won't work out for my application.

I would be one that would love to take this torch off your hands when you are ready to let it go.I am waiting on tax returns and this is on my wish list.
So keep me in mind if it ends up being something that doesn't work for you

[Trey Cornette]

I am going to put it on Ebay this week.

[Kirima]

Originally Posted by Trey Cornette

I am going to put it on Ebay this week.

This certainly is evil! ! LOL! Good luck!

[playswithfire104]

Originally Posted by Trey Cornette

I do find a couple of minor drawbacks to the Scorpion and I should bring them up. I find the base to be a bit light. I really wish it came with the heavier base of the Lynx..

I think attaching to my creation station would take care of this.

[beetslive]

I have mine attached to my creation station also & it's fine. I'm loving my new torch!
Debbie

[pam]

Just to make it a perfect trio, I have mine attached to my creation station and it is great, but everyone has their preferences.

[lripster]

I have another question.

Have any of you tried to adjust the angle of the torch while it is on? How easy is it to move it while you're working?

[La Casita Bolita]

I have changed the base with the base of my old Bobcat.

The Bobcat I need now no longer ...

Beat

[pam]

I sometimes adjust mine while it is on for a different angle. I guess I am not undestanding the question, Lisa. It adjusts just as the Cheetah did, very easy, but not easy enough that it moves inadvertantly. Maybe I am missing something.

[Trey Cornette]

Looks great!
I don't know why GTTdidn't do this in the first place.
I guess they were trying to keep the cost down.
Sure looks better on that base.
Got it on a foot pedal yet?

Originally Posted by La Casita Bolita

I have changed the base with the base of my old Bobcat.

The Bobcat I need now no longer ...

Beat

[suzanne]

Originally Posted by La Casita Bolita

I have changed the base with the base of my old Bobcat.

The Bobcat I need now no longer ...

Beat

Brilliant! I know what I'll be doing once it's here!

[La Casita Bolita]

Yes, I run the Scorpion with a foot pedal. It is an old Arnold pedal. I changed gas and oxygen, so I can adjust with the pilotflame screw the oxygen from the concentrator. It works great.

[kbinkster]

Well, at least the Scorpion base isn't sold separately for $100.

You know, I bet you could order the heavier base as an option. The reason it has the base it has is to keep costs (including shipping costs - especially for international shipments) down. Torch bases are supposed to be secured to the bench, anyway, so it doesn't matter how heavy a base is.

[Trey Cornette]

Hey Kim,
How much for a Bobcat base and to have hose tails attached to a quad Scorpion?

[gubnavnania]

You can actually order lynx/bobcat's base and additional hoses for scorpion.


Here's the quote from GTT for 4 studs Scorpion:

The additional charges for the Lynx base, gold arms and additional hoses with barb fittings will be $63.00.

[lripster]

No Pam, you're understanding. I like to move mine for different angles also. I've never worked on a GTT, but my Bullet doesn't like to adjust easily. It takes both hands. To avoid it, I end up tipping the whole torch upward and/or bracing it awkwardly against my body to get a more vertical flame. Something I look forward to getting away from. (And kids, don't try this at home.) LOL

Originally Posted by pam

I sometimes adjust mine while it is on for a different angle. I guess I am not undestanding the question, Lisa. It adjusts just as the Cheetah did, very easy, but not easy enough that it moves inadvertantly. Maybe I am missing something.

[pam]

Oh, good. Having never worked on a Bullet I didn't know that. The GTT torches I have owned have always worked very easily to change the angle, I'm happy to say. (As well as the Beths, come to think about it.)

[Trey Cornette]

That's a great deal! Anyone getting on the list should consider these options. Especially the hose ends. They make life so much easier.
I move my torches around a bunch as well. Different positions for different things and whether I am sitting or standing and there is always the need to tip the torch for those dificult to reach punty marks! I really need to invest in a GTT hand hels torch for punty marks.

Originally Posted by gubnavnania

You can actually order lynx/bobcat's base and additional hoses for scorpion.


Here's the quote from GTT for 4 studs Scorpion:

[Paul Ewing]

Do you know if the hose ends are the thinner very flexible shielded hoses or standard oxy/fuel welding hoses? I have one Lynx with the flexible hose and really love them. My other Lynx, Cheetah, and Mirage all have the standard welding hose material for the ends. And of course the two Crickets came bare so I had to make pigtails for them, but I haven't had a chance to put them on yet. The welding hose material really makes them much bulkier.

[pam]

Well, I didn't have any problem with mine and have four welding hoses on mine. I guess it's all preference, or how easily you adjust to that new torch. Of course, over the years I have noticed that men are less tolerant than women of change. The first thing my dh said was, why doesn't it have the small hoses like the Cheetah. I couldn't care less! It works great and I can change the angle as I wish.

You guys are just SOOOOO hard to please! lol

[Elizabeth Beads]

Silly torch newbie type question - what is the difference (or relationship) between the studs and the additional hoses with barb fittings?

[Ekkie]

My Nortel midrange is not hot enough for large soft glass sculptural pieces say 4 inches - I can do it but it takes forever. I am running it on household natural gas and an 8lpm concentrator.

I need to know if the Scorpion on household ng and a 10lpm concentrator will perform better than the midrange. Can anyone help???

[kbinkster]

Here is a picture of a four stud Scorpion:


Here is the two stud version:


Here is a picture of a Bobcat with the stud lines or pigtails as some call them:

These lines are narrower than the regular 1/4" ID hose set lines. I think they might be 3/8" or 3/16" ID, I'm not sure. But, they are a little less bulky than regular 1/4" ID lines. I like the old-stye jacketed lines, but the jackets (the cover part, not the tubing inside) tend to get frayed when rubbing on the edge of the bench. I think that's why they switched over o the heavier rubber lines.

Here is a close-up of the ends of the current stud lines:


These little brass end fittings have filter screens in them and are pretty much the same thing as those brass inlet barb fittings on the Scorpions. If you have the regular inlets without the stud lines and want less bulk, and are using a concentrator, you can always not use the green oxygen hose and use 1/4" ID clear vinyl tubing (for the oxygen only), instead. The heavier tube will hold up better close to the torch, though.

[kbinkster]

Originally Posted by Trey Cornette

I have had a couple of days to play with the Scorpion. I think this torch is going to change the way bead makers think about torches. Being able to use a concentrator to feed the torch and he ability to hook this torch to a foot pedal really makes it a wonderful tool.

I agree. I think this torch is very different from what is already out there. With more people converting over to oxygen concentrators for their oxygen supply (and with tanked oxygen costs increasing for those staying on tanked), a torch being able to run well on low volume and low pressure is exactly what is needed; and this is exactly what the Scorpion was designed to do.

It really opens up the door to a lot of people who are already on concentrators, as well as people on tanked oxygen looking to conserve as much as possible. And, I think it goes beyond beadmakers. This torch does well for sculpture work and with boro, too. That Cricket centerfire has already proven itself with how quickly it works boro on a limited oxygen source, compared to similarly sized torches. The same can be said for the Scorpion as a whole compared to other similarly sized two-stage torches run on concentrators.

I did some melt tests with the pre-production model that I have here. The Scorpion on an 8 LPM machine outperformed other two-staged torches on that machine. The same thing happened when tested on a 10 LPM machine. The Scorpion was able to produce a more driving oxidized flame, as well.

I would like to see the test results from GTT and see how their testing compares to mine. What types of flames were they able to get when the Scorpion was run on various machines. What are the flame widths and candle lengths? How did it do on tanked oxygen? What kind of melt tests did they do? How did this compare to other torches being run from the same oxygen source?

There are a lot of things that remain unanswered and I think that people should be given as much information as possible to make the most informed choice.

You can be doing fine detail work with the small focused inner fire and using a foot pedal be able to hands free turn on the outer fire keep the bead hot in the outer fire. The inner fire can be focused down to a very tight pinpoint flame that is great for stringer work. The outer fire can be set anywhere from a big fluffy flame for keeping the bead hot during design work, I was able to make my large tabs easily and quickly,and then really cranked up for the penetrating heat that solid boro work demands. I was able to get a very hot penetrating flame on the torch at its max setting. I made a 1.5 inch clear boro marble very quickly and with no problems. I am sure larger marbles and medium size sculptural work are well within the reach of this torch for a patient user.

I think that given more oxygen, you would have found it much faster to work boro larger than the 1.5” clear marble - comparable if not faster than the Barracuda or Bullet on the same oxygen source (same flow rate given, not just the same line pressure - because the line pressure can remain the same while the flow increases or decreases).

There were some boro workers at the Gathering who were impressed with what the Scorpion could do with boro - on concentrators and on tanked. It’s not a one-trick pony by any means.

The Scorpion is designed to run on O2 LPM's and PSI that are easily created with the more powerful concentrators or by ganging them up. I set my pressure down to 8 PSI for O2 an 3 PSI propane and to simulate a generator and the torch ran great. Although I was not able to replicate the LPM's of a generator I am sure it will operate within the volumes described by GTT.

What concentrator were you trying to simulate? How much flow did your in-line flow meter show you getting at that setting?

I thought you had two M-20s at your studio and were going to tell us how it operated on one or both of them at various LPM settings. A line pressure set at 8 psi on a regulator does not necessarily equate to the output of a concentrator labeled with an 8 psi static pressure, or 8 LPM.

I do find a couple of minor drawbacks to the Scorpion and I should bring them up. I find the base to be a bit light. I really wish it came with the heavier base of the Lynx. I also wish it came with hose tails attached like many other GTT torches. If I was going to order another one I would ask for both of these items and pay for the upgrade.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, the lighter base is offered for economy.

The last drawback that I have relates to my personal needs of the torch. I purchased this torch thinking it would become a travel torch for when I teach classes. Its small size would be a great advantage when trying to keep my checked bag under #50. The drawback is that the torch does not like to run as well at the higher PSI that many studios run on order to accommodate the large number of torches in the teaching facility. Anything O2 above about 15 PSI and the torch starts to lose some of the flame control that I like. I don't see this as a real drawback to the torch . I am actually asking it to do more than it was designed for. Because of this I do not think I will be able to use this torch for a travel torch.

That’s interesting that you would say that about the flame control at or above 15 psi. You’re the first person I heard this from. Most of the Scorpions at the Gathering were run on the tanks and manifold system (same as what is used for classes) and no one there had any difficulty with flame control at those pressures. The Scorpion uses the same valve assembly as the other GTT torches that are routinely run on those sorts of pressures and higher. I have found those valves to be more precise than the ones on several torches, including my Barracuda. I can just barely press the knob straight in (not turn it, just touch it straight on) and the flame will jump on the Cuda, they’re that sloppy. They should not do that. I liked the valves on the HA I tested and on the Knight Bullet. The Red Max’s valves were good, too. I hate hate hate the Mini CC valves for a couple of very good reasons, but that is another topic for another thread. But, like I said, the Scorpion’s valves are the same as the ones they use for their triple mix torches.

You know, when running higher psi, valves do become more responsive. If you (or anyone) find that you want them to be less responsive, then you can send it back to be customized to your specific needs or you can simply add something to the outer diameter of the knob so that you have to turn it more to make the adjustment (like how a penny riding on the outside of an LP record has to travel a further distance than one riding closer to the inside).

I do agree that the Cuda has a slightly wider flame shoulder and can get a bigger flame. But, it uses quite a bit of oxygen to get that. If someone had a limited source of oxygen (whether it be they are running on concentrators or they are being conservative with their tank usage) and they wanted a two-staged torch, then the Scorpion is the best choice out there right now for that price range, IMHO.

All in all I find this to be a wonderful addition to the GTT family and I truly believe it will change the way we think about flame control and glass working in the home studio setting. If you order one be sure to get the 4 stud so hooking up a foot pedal is an option.

I agree that getting the four stud version is the way to go - for any two stage torch. Foot pedals are great, but, even if you never plan to use one, having four studs is still a great benefit. You will need it if you ever want to run the centerfire off of one source and the outerfire off another. With some torches, people run the centerfire off of a concentrator and the outerfire off a tank. You really don’t need to run a tank with the Scorpion, but if you have concentrators that put out vastly different pressures and can’t hook them up together effectively, you could run them separately to feed the torch. It’s a nice option, especially since there is no extra charge for the four stud upgrade.

I think that the Scorpion can be used in more than a home studio. Because it uses so much less oxygen to operate, it’s affordable to run several set up in a class. Unless there was some sort of change-up I am not aware of between the pre-production torches used at the Gathering (one of which I have) and the production model, the Scorpion runs just fine at higher pressures, including those used in classrooms and production studios.