How much torch for small boro marbles?

[cggee]

I'm looking to buy my first torch in the next few months. I'm interested in hearing comparisions between the Minor/Midrange and Bobcat/Lynx. I've been working at a studio on a Midrange Plus (Minor for Effetre beads, Minor + Midrange for Effetre murini and for boro marbles). I know I want to buy "enough torch" to make boro marbles up to about 1.5 inches, but I'd like to keep the costs down as much as possible, both in the initial purchase and the oxy/fuel consumption. Any recommendations?

I'm not particularly attached to the Nortels, it's just what I know. I'm more attracted to the GTT torches because the flames seem to be more precise. The GTT website says the Bobcat can be used for small to medium boro work. Just for kicks, I used just the Minor torch to make a 1-1/8" marble... it worked, but I'm looking for a little more heat. I've read that the Bobcat has more heat than the Minor, but it's never quantified. Is it significantly more? How would the overall power of a Lynx compare to the Midrange Plus?

Right now I'm assuming a default of tanked oxygen and propane, but if someone told me I could make a 1-1/4" boro marble (in an hour or less?) on XYZ torch, a single oxycon, and household NG, that would be exciting news. Is that what the Betta has to offer? Would the Bobcat on one oxycon still be hotter than the Minor on tanked oxygen?

I would love a centerfire torch, since I currently switch back and forth from Minor to Midrange pretty frequently, but I think those are more torch than I'm looking for. I can't justify paying twice what the Midrange Plus would cost for a Barracuda or Bullet.

I know there are tons of torch comparisons out there, and I feel like I've read most of them and learned a lot. So my apologies if this post is redundant (and long!), but I really appreciate your opinions on this angle.

Thanks a million!! - Carol

[baylie]

I teach so I have heard this question often. I have a few small torches, an 8m, a nortel minor,a lynx, a 6b and I would say the lynx is th eaisest one to make a larger marble on. The 8m has the sm21 tip so it has the widest flame base of yhem all, but has no pin poont flame with out switching tips. I would go with the GTT Lynx if it is feasable

[Cosmo]

I have made 2" marbles on my Nortel MidRange with no problem. But, I use tanks. I run it occasionally with two concentrators, but it's still not enough. With boro, I always recommend tanked oxygen. Concentrators just aren't as pure, so your color suffers. I would suggest a Lynx or a Bethlehem Barracuda for what you are looking for.

[cggee]

Thanks baylie and Cosmo, I appreciate the comments. So, could a Lynx (on tanked O2) get as big/hot as the Midrange? I'm assuming it can get finer/more pinpoint than the Minor, which is a good thing for me too.

- Carol

[Anakin's Glass Eye]

Just about every marble I've done was on a Lynx or Phantom inner fire (same as Lynx). I can recommend the Lynx 100%. I've done pieces up to 2" in diameter. You will need a good supply of O2 though. For a Lynx you'll need 10-12 LPM to max it out.

Brad

[cggee]

Thanks Brad. It sounds like all the people in the know are in agreement. I had been leaning toward the Lynx, so this is good news.

I can't wait to get my own setup... but I'm moving this summer, so for the moment I have to sit tight and wait. Maybe in the meantime I can find some GTT torches to experiment with.

[R4GlassStudio]

Carol,
Your into an area the breaks away from the standard "needs" of the average glass artist. This could be a good thing for you cost wise. Most marble makers are more interested in power/heat for their money rather than the versitility of a torch. With this in mind (IF focus is less important than heat) you can buy a lot of torch for relatively little money. In THAT group of torches check into;
Nortel Midrange
Carlisle Wildcat
Knight 21 jet burner
GTT Cheetah
National 8M with the 21 jet tip
Nortel Red MAx
The Bobcat, while it is a great torch, would not be any better of a marble torch than the minor. Wrong tool, for a specific need.
The Lynx....will with out a doubt make a 1 1/2" marble and have better focus than the group above, but it won't be faster and has less mass melting ability.
If you could go into a center fire torch, then the list is good. Again, the only problem is your spending A LOT more $$$ with out getting more power. What I mean for example, is the Knight 21 jet vrs the Knight Bullet. They are the same torch, one just has a center fire. Is it worth the extra $450 to have a Bullet over the 21 jet Knight. Only you can answer that.
The list of good center fire torches would be; (not in any order)
Carlisle CC
Barracuda
Bullet Burner
Phantom
Best Power vrs $$$ would probably go to the Red Max. As always, take a good look at what you want to make..... see what torches handle YOUR needs the best... try as many as you can.... and get what works best for YOU.
Hope this helps. There are a lot of artists here that have used many many torches.... when you narrow it down to a few choices, e-mail a few.
Good luck and have fun!
Ron Jr.

[cggee]

Thanks for the detailed info, Ron Jr. You make a really good point about heat vs. cost. I guess I wasn't too clear in my first post that I also want the torch for fine detail on soft glass beads, although I have to admit I haven't touched my soft glass since I started making marbles a month ago!


You guys have helped me realize/clarify my thoughts. I want more power potential than a minor alone but I don't think I need any more power than the midrange. I've played on a RedMaxx and it didn't do anything for me. I might be perfectly happy with less than the midrange, I just don't know how much less. I'd also like more focus for tiny softglass detail than the minor, which I hear the GTT's can provide. I think I've narrowed my decision to a midrange plus vs. a lynx. Both are in the $400 price range, give or take $35 -- it's hard to go much above that in price point when the midrange plus is serving me just fine at the studio. I've heard all about how wonderful the lynx is for beads, but I need to test drive a lynx to see how much heat that guy can generate. Does anyone know if Arrow Springs has lynx's for testing? They list them for sale.

Thanks for the chance to think this out with people in the know. I tend to deliberate long and hard about big purchases. - Carol

[baylie]

You've got it down to 2 torches. And one has triplemix and a lifetime guarantee. You have to think about this?! Free refurbishing for the life of the torch? One is pretty and one is a tank......

[pam]

Okay, so just for the sake of argument here, the Midrange Plus has 21 ports as opposed to the 7 on a Lynx. The plus part of the Midrange puts a 7-port minor on top. If you are used to the wide flame of the Midrange part of the torch and switch to a Lynx I have a feeling there is going to be a major learning curve. It will be a much smaller flame, although I am sure it will melt the glass as quickly. I use a Cheetah and it has 12 ports. When I go back to a Lynx I find that it is really hard to work on because it is smaller than I am used to. Perhaps if I spent the time on the torch to get used to it it would actually be fine. So, why am I mentioning this? If you are going to buy a Lynx, I think it would be a good idea to try one out. Since so many glass workers have them, it's possible that someone that lives close would allow you to try theirs, or if you get the opportunity, come to the Gathering where you can try out all the torches at open torch.

On the opposite side of all this, I love the GTT torches and think that nothing can even come close to their ability to melt glass and give a tiny flame also.

[cggee]

Originally Posted by baylie

One is pretty and one is a tank......

Hey, I'm trying hard not to base my decision on this alone! But I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Thanks for your assessment, Pam. I've been wondering how much I'll notice the width difference of the flames. Your reply makes me feel better about it -- the melting power is still there, I just have to get used to the different type flame?

[pam]

I think that's right, but interestingly enough, after having posted to your thread, I was looking through Jim Kervin's "More than -" book and he has a chart listing flame size and it says Midrange max width is 1 inch, while the Lynx max width is 7/8ths inch. Doesn't sound like much difference to me. I thought there was much more difference than that. So, perhaps it won't be such an adjustment!

[R4GlassStudio]

It sounds like the Lynx may be your best choice. As with everyone above, try to get in a little time on one before you buy. With the soft glass beads being added to the "needs", it sounds like the best fit for your price range.
Have fun!
Ron Jr.

[Rimfeld]

I know Arrow Springs has a Lynx and Cheetah in there class room that you would be able to try.

I have a Lynx and very happy with it. I'm able to work boro with no problems.

Robin