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Tips, Techniques, and Questions -- Technical questions or tips

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  #1  
Old 2006-07-02, 5:20pm
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Default Sealing Jump Rings

Does someone have to know a lot to solder jump rings closed? Is it something that's not difficult and doesn't require a lot of tools? I have no idea but would like to secure some charms without having to go to a jeweler. Any ideas?
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  #2  
Old 2006-07-02, 8:35pm
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You need a small torch and silver solder, so unfortunately it does require a bunch of tools.
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  #3  
Old 2006-07-02, 8:47pm
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Well, that's not bad. I was thinking there would be fumes, more ventilation and on and on. I think I'm going to research some stuff at Rio Grande and figure something out. Thanks for the input.
-Sam
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  #4  
Old 2006-07-02, 9:10pm
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You need more than solder and a torch. You need flux to help the solder run. Then a pickle pot and pickle. A pair of brass or wood tongs to get the piece out of the pickle. If you are soldering jumprings on a charm bracelet you also need to make sure that the ajoining links and the charm can handle the heat from the torch.

Or you could get split rings to attach the charms.
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  #5  
Old 2006-07-03, 6:19am
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Rio sells a "Basic Soldering Kit" for $395.00! Yikes!!

Of what's listed in that kit, these are what I would consider essential (with prices from the Rio catalog):
- the "Little Torch" (cutest thing in the world, you'll go looking for things to solder once you have this!) - $190 (for the propane/oxy model)
- charcoal block - $7.00
- piece of fire-proof ceramic block or brick or something to put the charcoal block on - $?
- jar of Handy Flux - $7.00
- pickle (dry mix) - $8.00
- old used crock pot, from the thrift store, to hold the pickle - $5.00
- neutralizing bath (plastic container, with water and baking soda) - free
- pair copper tongs - $7.00 (must use copper to fish your piece out of the pickle solution)
- titanium pick, to place the solder - $5.00
- cross-lock tweezers (these grip when you let go, very handy) - $5.00
- solder for sterling silver - about $10.00 (last you forever!)
- "Y" fitting for the propane tank and the oxy tank, each with a valve - $40.00 each, but these are handy if you want to hook two torches up sometime in the future.
- kit of small needle files, to clean up stray solder from your jump rings - $10.00

And so there it is! What does that add up to? Did I leave anything out? There are, of course, quite a number of bell+whistles that you can add to this basic kit, if you want to solder other things.

The hardest part of soldering, in my humble opinion, is getting the two parts to marry perfectly. Solder is NOT like mortar, where it itself forms the connection. This is hard to remember! The two pieces of metal that you are conecting need to be totally touching for soldering to work.

The other hard thing for me was keeping the work piece clean, since solder won't work if the mating surfaces are dirty. I was constantly fiddling with the fit and getting schmootz all over everything.

The MOST essential bit is instruction on how to do this. Best (by far!!!) is a jewelry making class. The last and worst is to read instructions. Some are here:
http://www.ganoksin.com/borisat/nena...-soldering.htm
http://www.artjewelrymag.com/art/com...TOPIC_ID=16112
http://www.ganoksin.com/orchid/archi...0/msg00039.htm

But NOTHING beats a class. Along the lines of 'one picture is worth a thousand words', once you see something demonstrated, you save quite a bit of learning-curve time.

JanMD

Last edited by JanMD; 2006-07-03 at 6:24am.
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  #6  
Old 2006-07-03, 6:31am
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Sometimes I use split rings if I'm afraid a jump ring won't hold.
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  #7  
Old 2006-07-03, 6:43am
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An alternative to books and reading instructions online: watch a video! Here is an excellent one that includes a section on soldering --
The Complete Metalsmith With Tim McCreight, $40.00 from
http://www.craftweb.com/org/brookfld/videos.htm

Timmy is as cute as a button. So that's a bonus!

JanMD

Last edited by JanMD; 2006-07-03 at 6:47am.
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  #8  
Old 2006-07-03, 9:28am
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The prices seem high at Rio Grande. I paid $90 for my little torch. I got it at A&A Jewelry Supply in Los Angeles. Their web site isn't functioning yet. They have a catalog. Their number 800-433-5544.

They aren't the most helpful people when you walk in. You are expected to know what you want. They might be nicer on the phone!

Good Luck, you are on the right path.
Michelle
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  #9  
Old 2006-07-03, 9:39am
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Well, if all you're doing is soldering jump rings closed, you can use one of the little butane torches. That and balling up wire for head pins is pretty much all they're good for. And unheated pickle will work, although a lot more slowly than heated pickle, so you can save the $5.00 for the thrift store crock pot (or $9.99 for the Walmart itty-bitty crock pot). And you don't have to solder on a charcoal block. I was taught to solder on a piece of firebrick (although I just bought myself a charcoal block, so I may be about to find out why charcoal is recommended.)

The real problem, though, is that you probably want to solder the jump rings after you've attached the charms to them and after you've attached them to the bracelet. When you're soldering, you need to heat the whole piece, and chances are not everything in your charm bracelet can take the heat of soldering. (You've got glass beads in it, don't you?)

Is it possible to solder things to a piece that has glass beads in it? I've talked to someone who put chain ends onto necklaces, but the beads were several inches from where she was working. I can't remember if she said she put something between the chain end and the area with the beads or not. I can't see how you'd do a charm that had a glass bead in it, or a metal charm that was anywhere near a part of the bracelet that had glass in it.
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  #10  
Old 2006-07-03, 9:59am
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For instance, I go to James Avery, buy a couple of charms and 10 minutes later they are attached and soldered shut. How do they do it so quickly?

I don't mind the expense if I will continue to use it, and I think it will save time if you are attaching say 30-40 charms per bracelet. Wrapping is too labor intensive.

Oh! and thanks a ton for the info thus far. I really appreciate it.
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  #11  
Old 2006-07-03, 10:45am
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<<<<I can't remember if she said she put something between the chain end and the area with the beads or not. >>>

Rio has some stuff that goes in this direction, but I'm not sure they'd work with glass beads. The heat wants to travel through the metal and shock the glass. Has anyone tried either of these:

-- Rio "Chill Gel" - "Thick formula stays put to stop heat from traveling through most metals. . . . Protects stone, paper, wood, plastic, fabric and other combustible materials from heat and flame."
-- "Heat Shield" - ". . . is a clay-like heat sink that acts as a barrier between stones and the flame during soldering. . . "

Here's a discussion of exactly this issue: 'Soldering Jump Rings with Glass' -->http://craftbanter.com/showthread.ph...hybrid&t=13114


JanMD

Last edited by JanMD; 2006-07-03 at 10:48am.
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  #12  
Old 2006-07-03, 12:32pm
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James Avery probably has a plamsa soldering thingie. They instantly solder small spots like charm jump rings without having to heat up the whole shebang. I think those cost lots. like thousands of dollars.

Like I said split rings work like a charm. (pun intended)
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  #13  
Old 2006-07-03, 12:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emily
Is it possible to solder things to a piece that has glass beads in it? I've talked to someone who put chain ends onto necklaces, but the beads were several inches from where she was working. I can't remember if she said she put something between the chain end and the area with the beads or not. I can't see how you'd do a charm that had a glass bead in it, or a metal charm that was anywhere near a part of the bracelet that had glass in it.
Yes, but don't throw it into the pickle pot while it is hot. You also need to shield your heat sensative items from the torch. You can do this by putting a wad of wet tissue paper/cotton over the items you want to protect. However, when doing this with silver you need a VERY hot small precise flame, and get in and out quickly. A jump ring would be easy, but it would be a lot more difficult if you were trying to solder a piece of silver that is actually touching the glass. Since silver is highly conductive, by the time your joint is hot enough to solder, your whole piece is at the same temperature. This makes it pretty challenging for even an accomplished bench jeweler to solder a silver piece that contains a temperature sensative material. On the other hand you can do it easily with gold since you don't have the conductivity issue so much. I know of one guy who use gold wire to attach his beads to silver pieces for this exact reason.

Eric

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  #14  
Old 2006-07-03, 1:06pm
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I use ColdHeat tool for smaller gauge. All I need is this and a solder paste for silver. I dont strongly recommend it as I havent use it too often yet, I use it a couple of times since I bought it, it works fine. All you do is touch the tip to the part you want to close. It work using battery. But I do hear some bad review about it. Here's the link to the site: ColdHeat

Here's the funny review, thought I share. It make me laugh especially the Courtney Love part. But he actually revise his review, so.. its up to you. I bought it so all I can say for myself is, good to have for now.

.
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Last edited by born2snooze; 2006-07-03 at 1:15pm.
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  #15  
Old 2006-07-03, 1:28pm
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I use my minor torch for soldering... works just fine, hotter than you need though so you have to be careful....

I also use thick glass stringers with a hook on the end to get my silver out of the pickle.

Lynne
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  #16  
Old 2006-07-04, 1:56am
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Couple of money saving hints on the silver soldering. The pumice stones that they have at Walmart and K-mart (cost about 98 cents) make nice little stones for soldering on. Use straight lemon concentrate for pickling. Works fine and is much less hazardous than some of the pickling things they suggest out there. It took some practice to get the soldering thing down. silver doesnt' like to fill a void so make sure that the two pieces that you are soldering and in as much contact as you can get them. Good luck
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  #17  
Old 2006-07-04, 8:02am
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i just use a regular soldering iron with a fine tip, stained glass flux and Staybrite silver solder.

When i took a silversmithing class a few years back, the instructor used Staybrite in the sheet form with the torch but since i only have stained glass equipment i use what i have on hand.
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  #18  
Old 2006-07-04, 10:41am
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If you just want to use jump rings, I agree with a previous post to consider split rings. They come in all sizes and round and oval shapes. I have been metalsmithing for twenty years and have all the soldering equipment, but to tell you the truth, if I'm just attaching something with a jump ring, I use a split ring. Also--it's very easy to melt that little ring. Even though I have metals experience, I find soldering really stressful!
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  #19  
Old 2006-07-04, 2:07pm
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For soldering I use a Creative Versa-Tool from Walnut Hollow. I got it at Michael's and they are about $30. You just need a little bit of flux and you're good to go. Not only can you solder but you can also use it for woodburning, embossing, stamping, etc. It works great and very easy to use!
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  #20  
Old 2006-07-05, 2:26am
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I have a question about split ring. (Sorry for hijacking!)

After inserting a ring into a split ring, the split ring sometimes opens too much and won't close closer together like it was. How do I close them back?
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  #21  
Old 2006-07-05, 9:27am
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Sorry I never had that problem. Maybe try not to open it too much?
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  #22  
Old 2006-07-05, 12:31pm
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Quote:
Sorry I never had that problem. Maybe try not to open it too much?
If the ring to be inserted is in thick gauge it opens up.
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  #23  
Old 2006-07-05, 12:40pm
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I guess you wold be limited to a gauge that wouldn't stretch out the split ring too much.
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